Jedi Mind Tricks

[ultrium]

I thinking about a character that has powers like the jedi Mind trick. Instead of buying mind control, the character could buy ego drain or pre drain. Then he could use pre based skills like persuasion or interrogation on the target. Combining this power with a high pre, the character would make his roll most of the time. Is this a (legal/good) idea?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Sure. Works great.

[Oneway]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

unless the target will be suceptable to anyone's suggestion, (not sure if Jedi Mind Trick would work this way, but my guess would be no) you will want a limitation that the drain effect is only vs attacks from the caster.

 

also, as i don't recall ever hearing Bob (in this case Stromtrooper #2) saying "You idoit, you're just repeating what the old guy is saying". i would make the attack an area effect.

[ultrium]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

unless the target will be suceptable to anyone's suggestion, (not sure if Jedi Mind Trick would work this way, but my guess would be no) you will want a limitation that the drain effect is only vs attacks from the caster.

 

also, as i don't recall ever hearing Bob (in this case Stromtrooper #2) saying "You idoit, you're just repeating what the old guy is saying". i would make the attack an area effect.

 

That is a good point! It should be area affect and have the limitation. Another question I have is this: if my character does a persuasion skill attempt without the Jedi trick and fails, can he do another persuasion skill attempt with the Jedi mind trick and try a second time. I am thinking about the time in the first prequel when Qui-Gon Jinn tried to buy parts from Watto. If my character can drain more than once eventually the ego or pre would go down to zero.

[Mike W]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

That is a good point! It should be area affect and have the limitation. Another question I have is this: if my character does a persuasion skill attempt without the Jedi trick and fails' date=' can he do another persuasion skill attempt with the Jedi mind trick and try a second time. I am thinking about the time in the first prequel when Qui-Gon Jinn tried to buy parts from Watto. If my character can drain more than once eventually the ego or pre would go down to zero.[/quote']

 

As a matter of play balance, I would say you can try to drain only once. After that, you have to make your rolls against whatever PRE/EGO the person has left. A cumulative Drain on this type of power would just be too easy to abuse. Also note that doing something like this would have limits that Mind Control wouldn't. You can take all of someone's PRE you want, but you still can't make them do things against their nature(they'll just blubber away instead). I'd say draining their EGO would do the same thing. Remember, you're still basically trying to talk someone into doing something with Persuasion. You can't make someone do something totally against their nature with a skill roll. As in "Sorry, I don't care how much you made your Seduction roll by, the hot nun is not going to check into a motel with you." Because of this, you may want to go ahead and buy Mind Control because with enough Mind Control you CAN force someone to do something totally against their nature. So I guess it depends on how powerful of a "mind trick" you want to play.

[ultrium]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

As a matter of play balance' date=' I would say you can try to drain only once. After that, you have to make your rolls against whatever PRE/EGO the person has left. A cumulative Drain on this type of power would just be too easy to abuse. Also note that doing something like this would have limits that Mind Control wouldn't. You can take all of someone's PRE you want, but you still can't make them do things against their nature(they'll just blubber away instead). I'd say draining their EGO would do the same thing. Remember, you're still basically trying to talk someone into doing something with Persuasion. You can't make someone do something totally against their nature with a skill roll. As in "Sorry, I don't care how much you made your Seduction roll by, the hot nun is not going to check into a motel with you." Because of this, you may want to go ahead and buy Mind Control because with enough Mind Control you CAN force someone to do something totally against their nature. So I guess it depends on how powerful of a "mind trick" you want to play.[/quote']

 

Basicly, I wanted the Jedi Mind Trick to enhance my pre base skills. The exampes I have in mind is the time when Obi-wan talk to the stromtrooper and when Qui-Gon Jinn talked to Watto. I do not wanted to use it make people jump off clicks and/or kill themselves. Also, I do not wanted to work on hot nuns either. However, if my character has a high COM and a high PRE then I think it should work on the hot nurse.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Basicly' date=' I wanted the Jedi Mind Trick to enhance my pre base skills. The exampes I have in mind is the time when Obi-wan talk to the stromtrooper and when Qui-Gon Jinn talked to Watto. I do not wanted to use it make people jump off clicks and/or kill themselves. Also, I do not wanted to work on hot nuns either. However, if my character has a high COM and a high PRE then I think it should work on the hot nurse.[/quote']

Then why not just model it as something like +X Pre with some kind of RSR or Costs End or something (maybe even Gestures)?

[Robyn]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Basicly' date=' I wanted the Jedi Mind Trick to enhance my pre base skills. The exampes I have in mind is the time when Obi-wan talk to the stromtrooper and when Qui-Gon Jinn talked to Watto. I do not wanted to use it make people jump off clicks and/or kill themselves.[/quote']

 

You could also take this as "Mind Control, RSR Presence, Limited Effect: cannot make target do things they are Violently opposed to". It would be inadvisable to take this as a straight "cannot exceed EGO+30" because there are modifiers (such as +10 for not remembering what happened or +20 for thinking they were natural) that you'll probably want to use, and if you factored those into the equation you could do EGO+30 if you were willing to give up the "target forgets or thinks it was natural" part.

[ultrium]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

You could also take this as "Mind Control' date=' RSR Presence, Limited Effect: cannot make target do things they are Violently opposed to". It would be inadvisable to take this as a straight "cannot exceed EGO+30" because there are modifiers (such as +10 for not remembering what happened or +20 for thinking they were natural) that you'll probably want to use, and if you factored those into the equation you could do EGO+30 if you were willing to give up the "target forgets or thinks it was natural" part.[/quote']

That is another good idea. I am thinking however the Jedi Mind Trick in the movies is a PRE drain or EGO drain because the jedi never did the trick in combat. If it was mind control, they could use on the stormtrooper and make them attack each other.

[Robyn]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

That is another good idea. I am thinking however the Jedi Mind Trick in the movies is a PRE drain or EGO drain because the jedi never did the trick in combat. If it was mind control' date=' they could use on the stormtrooper and make them attack each other.[/quote']

 

I would treat "attacking fellow stormtroopers" as a Presence + 30 effect.

[JmOz]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Just a crap load of extra PRE (my Mentalist had +60), offencive only (Including skill use; -1/2), maybe cost END, but probably only at the -0 level (Effect maintained invisibility).

 

It works great, trust me...

[Outsider]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

You will note that Jedi never seemed to have a problem vis-a-vis their defensive presence either, so it might be better to just buy a lot of straight, no limitation PRE, if you're going the PRE route.

 

Personally, I would lean towards the Mind Control route myself, and limit it to "Not in Combat" and "No more than EGO+X effects (before modifiers)" to keep the Jedi from ordering stormtroopers to kill themselves kind of thing.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

In a Jedi based character, and one character with Jedi like power, we did the Mind Tricks as just extra PRE, Costs END (that was visible to the Mental Sense Group). The extra PRE was used for making a PRE Attack and for enhancing some Interaction Skills, which had phenomenal affect on the "weak minded", which was anyone with an average or lower PRE & EGO. In the case on one of the characters, it was even limited to affecting only characters that had an EGO & PRE of less than 13 each.

[Outsider]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

I like the 'not on people with more than average EGO+PRE' limitation.

 

But I'd worry that the whole shebang will start getting -too- cheap, with all these limitations.

 

Takes END is (-1/2), but what value would you assign to the following :

 

Only on the 'Weak Minded' (-?)

Not in Combat (-?)

Maximum of PRE+20 Effect (-?)

[Outsider]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Removed double post.

[Robyn]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Not in Combat (-?)

 

This might be done as Concentration, or maybe just a limit that the person you're affecting can't be in that "combat" frame of mind; it's okay to confuse the stormtroopers who are searching your vehicle, they're only handling casual searches (not focusing on "emptying the vehicle", because it's pretty easy to see what the people look like).

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Annother "not Drain" way to model this might be Supress Pre/Ego (either or both) and personal immune...It does not get used in combat because people move around to much, but in non combat situations it crunches through resistance lightning fast...(a 12 second conversation is a real short interaction, a 12 second fight is a long one...) Or maybe a fixed command emotions only Mind controll "You really want to beleive me"...?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Jedi Mind Tricks

 

Only on the 'Weak Minded' (-?)

Not in Combat (-?)

Maximum of PRE+20 Effect (-?)

 

-1/4 (most characters/people could be considered weak minded with only the major characters and special cases being different)

Concentration: 1/2 DCV (instant effect) -1/4

-0 (not really much of a Limitation, more of a SFX)