Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

[nexus]

Missile Deflection is odd. Its the only Power that immediately comes to mind who's cost is based directly on Special Effect. I was considering this possibility.

 

 

1. Give Missile Deflection a flat cost. The power allows the character to use a Block Manuever against all Ranged attacks regardless of SFX. The Power retains the same Adders. Use Limited Power if your character can only deflect certain kinds of ranged attacks. The level of Limitation would vary somewhat according to campaign.

[Phil]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

In a purer version of HERO this is indeed how it should appear.

[Frenchman]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

This came up in my group: Our Fantasy wizard wanted to have a spell-reflection spell - Obvious build, as missile reflection. Unfortunatly, he was forced to buy it at the highest level, and then limit it to only spells. We ended up coming up with a different cost system, something like this:

 

5 - Very Limited sFX (Thrown Weapons, Arrows, A single spell)

10 - Limited sFX (Missile Weapons, Fire Spells)

15 - Broad sFX (Physical/Energy Missiles, Spells)

20 - Unlimited sFX (Everything)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I can't remember where but we did go over this some time ago on the boards... Pretty much all of us came to the same conclusion: It needs a different costing method.

 

If I can find the thread I'll post it.

[nexus]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I think I remember that thread...

 

I should really start getting more sleep.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Funny, I was thinking the same thing after writing my Catch This! thread. Lt. Laser buys a 10d6 EB for his Laser Gun. Ogre Boy buys a 10d6 EB for throwing rocks. Deflecting Ogre Boy's rocks is so much easier but without any point break.

 

Perhaps, the EB and the RKA need an adder to them. For +5 points, you go one step up the Missile Deflect chart. So now, Lt. Laser needs to spend 65 points for his 10d6 EB that can only be blocked with the 20 point Missile Deflect.

[schir1964]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I believe this is the thread you are looking for.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41182

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Funny' date=' I was thinking the same thing after writing my Catch This! thread. Lt. Laser buys a 10d6 EB for his Laser Gun. Ogre Boy buys a 10d6 EB for throwing rocks. Deflecting Ogre Boy's rocks is so much easier....[/quote']

Indeed. And Mr. Mirror, who can deflect light-based attacks but is going to be in SERIOUS trouble against Ogre Boy's rocks, may have the same Real Cost but for some reason has to have far more Active Points. The more generalized SFX-based approach Frenchman mentioned (or at least the original full AP with Limitation suggestion) sounds good to me.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Missile Deflection is odd. Its the only Power that immediately comes to mind who's cost is based directly on Special Effect. I was considering this possibility.

 

 

1. Give Missile Deflection a flat cost. The power allows the character to use a Block Manuever against all Ranged attacks regardless of SFX. The Power retains the same Adders. Use Limited Power if your character can only deflect certain kinds of ranged attacks. The level of Limitation would vary somewhat according to campaign.

 

Agreed 100% and this is the way I'm using Missile Deflection in my games. The way I see it, if character A only wants to Deflect thrown attacks, but wants to be able to Reflect such attacks back at any target, he ends up paying more than character B who only wants to Deflect energy blasts (the SFX, not the Power) and also reflect them at any target. Doesn't make any sense at all.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I believe this is the thread you are looking for.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41182

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Long... thread... where in there is the meat of the MD discussion?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Start with post 167

[Frenchman]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Or if we wanted to unify the block and missile deflection mechanics, do away with missile deflection as a separate power and make block effective against ranged attacks, most likely at a penalty - I'd go with -6 or so.

Then characters who want to be good with this could buy PSLs vs. that penalty, costing 9/12/18 to eliminate it.

Reflection could either be a 10/20 point talent, or it could also be done away with, to be replaced by RKA with trigger and variable sFX.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I rather liked the idea of it being a series of adders for block. One adder would add ranged block, then you'd have two more adders for reflecting ranged and melee. If you only them to work against certain "objects", then you would apply the Limitation to the applicable adders. Or you could always just make a new maneuver called Ranged Block, then have adders to each that add reflecting...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I rather liked the idea of it being a series of adders for block. One adder would add ranged block' date=' then you'd have two more adders for reflecting ranged and melee. If you only them to work against certain "objects", then you would apply the Limitation to the applicable adders. Or you could always just make a new maneuver called Ranged Block, then have adders to each that add reflecting... [/quote']

Yeah. As is, Missile Deflection is a different maneuver than Block. I think that if you have Missile Deflection you should be able to Block a HTH Attack, then Block a Ranged Attack at -2, then Block a HTH Attack at -4 (all with one action). Trying to Reflect attacks might change this, but generally it should be allowed.

[Lucius]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

I agree. Missile Deflection is basically a Block.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary remarks that everything in Hero is basically a building block.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

The palindromedary remarks that everything in Hero is basically a building block.

Speak for yourself. I don't Block buildings very often. I try not to even get into situations where I might have to try to.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

Yeah. As is' date=' Missile Deflection is a different maneuver than Block. [i']I[/i] think that if you have Missile Deflection you should be able to Block a HTH Attack, then Block a Ranged Attack at -2, then Block a HTH Attack at -4 (all with one action). Trying to Reflect attacks might change this, but generally it should be allowed.

 

I mostly agree, and for the most part try to make Missile Deflection and Block work this way in my games. Occasionally there is a SFX for Missile Deflection that doesn't mesh well with the Block maneuver, such as a mystic that opens gates that swallow incoming ranged attacks, or a sharpshooter that shoots projectiles off course. I don't see these as being at all interchangable with Block. A shield, or a martial artist who deflects bullets and arrows with his fists, definately works with Block though.

 

So far I've just ignored this and allowed Missile Deflection to be use alongside Block when the SFX match, and not when they don't. What I've been toying with is somehow reflecting this difference with a point cost. Either creating an Adder for Missile Deflection to allow it to be used as a Block, or a Limitation to prevent it from doing so. At the moment I'm leaning toward the Adder, but that's only to keep the Power as close to the default rules as possible.

[Lucius]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

And I can't give rep yet to either Prestidigitator OR Dust Raven.

 

Good point, Dust Raven. It's easy to forget that not all SFX of Missile Deflection are obviously interchangeable with Block. I had a character once who had Teleport Gate powers, and one was Missilve Deflection/Reflection: the projectile/beam/whatever would go into a "microgate" and come out another one pointed back the way it came.

 

On the other hand, I COULD see this SFX for a variant Block too - the attackers fist/weapon/whatever disappears into the microgate, perhaps jutting out of another microgate on the other side of the character...or a pair of mobile gates manifests and sweeps over the attacker's position, "teleporting" him back into the same hex, but facing a different way, forcing him to miss...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reflects upon the matter

[Robyn]

Re: Missile Deflection Variant (Pondering)

 

And I can't give rep yet to either Prestidigitator OR Dust Raven.

 

I got Prestidigitator; it's you that I can't get yet

 

I'll catch up one of these days . . .