rule.alt for Autofire..anu?

[lensman]

Any one can chip in, NuSoard you out there?

 

I have a problem with Autofire as a concept and thus the mechanic of the Advantage in HERO

 

Why should the same bullet, beam, missle etc. be less powerful (by .5 in this case) just because of a high cycle rate or iteration?

 

I have a Mecha MP and I find the de-powering of the same energy, just differnt advantage to be breaking my suspension of disbelief.

 

I am in search of an arguement as to why it would work that way.

 

If I make Autofire a 0, yes zero, adv, have badly does that mess with play balance?

 

besides everyone having weapon that autofire. In the far future what is the ig deal?

 

Any ideas, let me hear 'em

[NuSoardGraphite]

I have to ask one question before I answer:

 

Is this in context to a Heroic level game, or a Superheroic level game?

[lensman]

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite

I have to ask one question before I answer:

 

Is this in context to a Heroic level game, or a Superheroic level game?

 

I think the answer is Heroic.

 

That said, this will e a Space Opera, Galaxy spanning, War of attrition campaign.

 

The characters do use a suite of Powers as skills that blend everything, sort of magic, from Cyberware to information technoloy gone amuck.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Lensman,

 

It's a play balance issue when the weapons must be bought with points (aka superheroic). In that case firing 5 times is much more powerful than firing once assuming the damage is the same...thus the advantage Autofire. It's a game mechanic issue. For heroic level stuff that the PC do not have to pay points for you can do whatever you want...

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: rule.alt for Autofire..anu?

 

Originally posted by lensman

Why should the same bullet, beam, missle etc. be less powerful (by .5 in this case) just because of a high cycle rate or iteration?

 

Answer: It's not. It just costs more.

 

I'm not NSG, but I had to give my two cents.

[Lord Liaden]

I guess this is one of those issues whose definition depends on how you look at it. The damaging whatever is not less powerful; a 2D6 RKA for example, will still do 2D6 whether you fire it off once or twenty times. What you've done is give it an additional ability that it didn't have before, like Armor Piercing or Explosion. Because those additional abilities cost Character Points to add on in HERO, Autofire raises the Active Point total. Because END use is based on Active Points, END use is increased. It's essential to the game balance of the system that you "pay for what you get."

 

In a campaign where you have to pay points for all your abilities and equipment, IMO making Autofire a +0 Advantage would make attacks using it radically more effective than any other of comparable cost. You can have a single-shot 10D6 EB or one that can potentially hit with five shots at once for the same cost? Not in my campaign.

 

Now if the PCs don't pay points for their equipment, and you control what they have access to, it of course becomes less of an issue. However, if you want to balance the relative effectiveness of weapons, especially as to what level of challenge your characters will face, reducing Autofire to +0 will give you a lot of headaches IMHO.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by lensman

I think the answer is Heroic.

 

That said, this will e a Space Opera, Galaxy spanning, War of attrition campaign.

 

The characters do use a suite of Powers as skills that blend everything, sort of magic, from Cyberware to information technoloy gone amuck.

 

Okay, that makes a big difference, believe it or not.

 

If it were a Superheroic level game where everyone is paying points for everything, then well..yer stuck. The point thing is to be fair to everyone.

 

However, in a Heroic level game, where equipment is written up and controlled by the GM (or taken from a supplement, whatever) then points are completely irrelevant when it comes to equipment and vehicles that the characters pay money for (not CP's)

 

If this MP is being paid for by your character however, I have a solution for you;

 

You are correct that an Autofiring weapon should do the same amount of base damage as a single shot of the same calibur (assuming the rounds are of the same type and fired from similar weapons).

 

First, remember, that is you want a weapon that is capable of both Single shot and Autofire attacks, all you need to do is write up an attack with Autofire. You can choose to use single shots, or any level of autofire up to its maximum rate of fire at any time. No need to write up a Multipower Weapon for this ability.

 

However, if you want to simulate a gun that has a high inherent accuracy when fired in SS mode vs Autofire mode (where it loses that accuracy because of cumulative effects of recoil) then try this:

 

Figure out the base damage of the weapon you want. Apply Autofire (and other advantages) to the weapon to figure out its Active Cost. Base your Multipower Pool on this cost. Now, the Accurate slot is written up as the same attack power, with the same level of Damage. The remaining points in the slot are split between +OCV bonus (recommended +2 or +3) at 5pts per +1 OCV and +Rmod at 3pts per +2Rmod.

 

Example:

 

Mecha Rifle: (31pts)

90pt Multipower: OAF(-1) Bulky(-1/2) Indep(-2) 30 chgs(+0) 25pts

1)Burst Mode: 4D6 RKA (60) Autofire 5 shots (+1/2) 90act: Slot cost 3pts

 

2)Snipe Mode: 4D6 RKA (60) +3 OCV(15) +10Rmod(15) 90act: Slot cost 3pts

 

Both are "Fixed" slots.

 

Pretty simple eh?

 

If this isn't what you are going for, let me know. The best thing to do would be to post the Power you have designed thus far and let us analyze it here...

[lensman]

Right smack dab in the frontal lobes

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I guess this is one of those issues whose definition depends on how you look at it. The damaging whatever is not less powerful; a 2D6 RKA for example, will still do 2D6 whether you fire it off once or twenty times. What you've done is give it an additional ability that it didn't have before, like Armor Piercing or Explosion. Because those additional abilities cost Character Points to add on in HERO, Autofire raises the Active Point total. Because END use is based on Active Points, END use is increased. It's essential to the game balance of the system that you "pay for what you get."

 

In a campaign where you have to pay points for all your abilities and equipment, IMO making Autofire a +0 Advantage would make attacks using it radically more effective than any other of comparable cost. You can have a single-shot 10D6 EB or one that can potentially hit with five shots at once for the same cost? Not in my campaign.

 

Now if the PCs don't pay points for their equipment, and you control what they have access to, it of course becomes less of an issue. However, if you want to balance the relative effectiveness of weapons, especially as to what level of challenge your characters will face, reducing Autofire to +0 will give you a lot of headaches IMHO.

 

Lord Liaden:

ood observayations, but. I could make a great case for Autofire actuallu acting more as disadvantage than advantage.

Given the bell curve of 3 d6, visa vie the "to hit" roll. Unless there is a CV delta between user and target this advantage does not work very well.

1. Points spent on Levels for this attack

Autofire skills allow access to the greaster use of this advantage over any other advantage.

2. points spent on Autofire skills

Increased END or charge spent for shots that probably do not "hit".

3/ The more autofire multiples the user buys the more each of the above become more expensive.

 

I use your post to set forth my theory. And, yes, you point out that in a heroic game, I the GM build the equipment and thus balance into items not paid for by players.

 

But waht headaches are you reffering to?

 

NuSoaed Graphite:

That is it exactly.

 

the first slot I included Increased Max range, +1/4 to reflect tighter weapon control.

 

But I will add in the levels and acheive the balance iI wanted.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Right smack dab in the frontal lobes

 

Originally posted by lensman

 

NuSoaed Graphite:

That is it exactly.

 

the first slot I included Increased Max range, +1/4 to reflect tighter weapon control.

 

But I will add in the levels and acheive the balance iI wanted.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

 

 

Ah.

 

I thought it would be something of that nature.

 

Glad to have been of service.

 

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