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Build Me A Villain Team


GestaltBennie

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

The only reason Eurostar stays together is because they have only one suitable leader, and he reminds them at every turn. Too many chiefs and not enough indians and the team melts down, hero and villain alike. As a one or two-shot appearance team, your line-up makes me wanna fill my pants. I just think they will dissolve over who gets the last beer.

 

For my design philosophy, *SNIP*

 

I can see that you've put thought into your lineup. :) Your dual-leadership approach seems to be practical, but I have to question the inclusion of Ifrit and Obelisque in what's intended to be an effective team. No question that they have power, but Ifrit has Holocaust's problems with discipline, overweening arrogance, and rage over being offended; probaby to an even greater degree based on his textual description. Obelisque is an ill-tempered animal, with limited intellect and ready to fly into a rampage at almost any provocation. Even his creator Teleios had trouble controlling him.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

I think the reason I don't like Gargantua is that' date=' as tough as he is by Supers standards, he's kind of a wuss by CU Military Hardware standards. 40/25rPD, not hardened, 25% Dam Red, 55 Stun, -3 DCV (unless it bottoms out at 3; haven't checked). A couple of fighter planes or even well armed ground troops kill him stone cold dead if he doesn't have that air support. His tactics need to be grow, strike, shrink, run before the X-SWAT gets there. With air support, he's a nasty peice of work, but I just don't see him as having the durability to play city stomper. Indoors or underground, he's just a mediocre tough guy.[/quote']

 

I strongly recommend that we steer clear of the "canon supers writeups vs canon military hardware writeups" debate here. :fear: The subject's been raised on the boards before, and much grief resulted therefrom.

 

I suggest we stick to comparisons of supers to supers, since that will likely be the focus of any scenarios using these villains. :)

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Here's my thoughts:

 

The Black Fist (just for another name)

 

Black Paladin - The leader (apparent). He fits the role, is less powerful but far less psychotic than Holocaust, so the team is more likely to stay together. Also, he has similar Psych Lims regarding Christianity to his benefactor.

 

 

Der Westgote – The Visigoth - The brick. While not as tough as other bricks I could have chosen, he fights smart which is a valuable talent in a team.

 

 

Mechassassin - The Professional. As the text says he is proud without being stupid, ruthless without being sadistic, and disciplined without being a machine. He will get the job done and may be the only person who knows who the Golden Hood really is. But he is keeping his mouth shut.

 

Shrinker - The necessary female. Also an incredibly useful addition to the field team as an infiltration specialist. This group is one of the few where no one is likely to say anything to offend her.

 

 

Taipan - The Martial Artist. Much like Mechassassin he is the ultimate professional. But rather than a mercenary, Taipan is an assassin.

 

 

Vector - The Speedster. Vector is the weak link in this team. His attitude and flamboyance is out of step with the rest of the group, but his powers and abilities make him too valuable... for the moment. He has the beginings of a one-sided rivalry with Taipan, who doesn't care and will kill him when ordered by the Golden Hood because Vector eventually will become a liability.

 

The Reserves

 

Masquerade - The Ace in the Hole. Whenever the field team is on a mission, you can be sure that the scouting and intelligence was done weeks and months before by Masquerade. Also, for important missions Masquerade will be somewhere nearby, ready to act if things go wrong.

 

Invictus (aka The Golden Hood) - The leader (really). Everything that has been said about this twist is great. So I pinched it.

 

 

 

Overall, a very scary team. They could swap out Vector for a brick like Gargantua whose main role is to draw fire. Or Taipan could be replaced by Jade Phoenix (the two can't really be in the team because Jade has such a mad on for being the best).

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Oooh... OzMike, this is a very interesting lineup! The idea of Black Paladin fronting Invictus on this team due to shared anti-Christian sentiment is extremely clever. :thumbup:

 

There may be something in that which could lead to a focussing motivation for this team. I'll have look through my books and give it more thought.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

I strongly recommend that we steer clear of the "canon supers writeups vs canon military hardware writeups" debate here. :fear: The subject's been raised on the boards before, and much grief resulted therefrom.

 

I suggest we stick to comparisons of supers to supers, since that will likely be the focus of any scenarios using these villains. :)

 

Fair enough, but even then Gargantua wouldn't be my choice for team brick. Outdoors he makes a good distraction and a serious threat; if you want something other than mass destruction, you're better off with someone like the Visigoth or similar.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

I can see that you've put thought into your lineup. :) Your dual-leadership approach seems to be practical' date=' but I have to question the inclusion of Ifrit and Obelisque in what's intended to be an effective team. No question that they have power, but Ifrit has Holocaust's problems with discipline, overweening arrogance, and rage over being offended; probaby to an even greater degree based on his textual description. Obelisque is an ill-tempered animal, with limited intellect and ready to fly into a rampage at almost any provocation. Even his creator Teleios had trouble controlling him.[/quote']

 

I agree, and what you call a flaw I call a feature. :D I like the detente between Ifrit and Monsoon, and the possibility of something more developing. And I would swap Obelisque with Durak or der Westgote in a second if they could conceivably be on this team, but a puppet beast seemed too appealing for a person like Otanga. He thinks that Obelisque can be directed, and he will learn the hard way.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Oooh... OzMike, this is a very interesting lineup! The idea of Black Paladin fronting Invictus on this team due to shared anti-Christian sentiment is extremely clever. :thumbup:

 

There may be something in that which could lead to a focussing motivation for this team. I'll have look through my books and give it more thought.

 

Thanks for the props (you and Oddhat).

 

And here's the criteria I used in picking them:

1) Do they fulfil the criteria set out in the first post?

Limited to the 2 (3) books outlined. Must be able to stay a team. Must have a female member.

 

2) Are they powerful enough?

Well, the 'weakest' members are Shrinker and Masquerade, but both specialize in NOT being discvered, seen or hit (DCV 23 for Shrinker).

 

3) Willing to kill/no CvK.

This eliminated a couple of prime choices like Tesseract.

 

4) Not entirely consumed by evil

This eliminated a couple of the powerful demonic characters.

 

5) Must have a broad or general agenda

Zoran is a great character, but a little too focussed on winning the kingdom back.

 

6) Must be able to work in a team/ No headcases

Morph was a choice for a long time, but her write up and especially her personality/motivation just didn't gel with the team vibe for me. Holocaust would not work with a world beating team - he'd surround himself with people like Bulldozer. Eclipse is paranoid VERY COMMON. A whole heap of characters hate humanity/rivals/superhumans.

 

So basically I looked at what they could do, their disads, and their personalities/motivations. Tried to fill most of the slots with professional types who'd get along, added Vector for some flamboyance and friction.

 

Besides, I've always liked Black Paladin as a villain, I liked the Golden Hood thing that Hermit cooked up (owe him rep when I have some), and it was serendipitous that each one shared an unsual psych lim.

 

So do you think that's the team folks?

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Well, I for one would like to hear from Mr. Bennie as to who he decided to go with, and why. It's his challenge, after all. :)

 

So whatsay, Scott? Did any of our suggestions impact your choices?

 

It's been tougher than I thought! I appreciate the good discussion, but I'm still not quite sold on my team.

 

My rough picks are:

 

Interface (leader)

Durak

Mentalla

Jade Dragon

Vector

Samhain

 

Reserves

Morph

Tesseract

 

I'm not happy with Durak as the team brick, and I've waffled on putting Holocaust and the Engineer in the leader's spot. I'm still reluctant to use anyone from CWW, just because it'd be nice to be able to recommend a team to a newbie GM who can only afford the main villain books. Taipan would pretty much replace Jade Dragon and Vector on his own.

 

Samhain, being utterly evil, has his own problems, but he also adds visual flair and his high PRE is a real kick in the teeth.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

It's been tougher than I thought! I appreciate the good discussion, but I'm still not quite sold on my team.

 

My rough picks are:

 

Interface (leader)

Durak

Mentalla

Jade Dragon

Vector

Samhain

 

Reserves

Morph

Tesseract

 

I'm not happy with Durak as the team brick, and I've waffled on putting Holocaust and the Engineer in the leader's spot. I'm still reluctant to use anyone from CWW, just because it'd be nice to be able to recommend a team to a newbie GM who can only afford the main villain books. Taipan would pretty much replace Jade Dragon and Vector on his own.

 

Samhain, being utterly evil, has his own problems, but he also adds visual flair and his high PRE is a real kick in the teeth.

 

 

Looks good. :)

 

Samhein also adds a strong Mystic element, allowing the group to pull off a wider range of schemes.

 

I like Visigoth better as a brick than Durak. He doesn't have the raw power of Durak, but he has more to contribute in the planning stages, and makes a nice thematic change from the Big Dumb Russian.

 

Of course, with Durak, you get the image of Mentalla finally stamping out of Eurostar and taking a "pet" with her. :)

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

It's been tougher than I thought! I appreciate the good discussion, but I'm still not quite sold on my team.

 

My rough picks are:

 

Interface (leader)

Durak

Mentalla

Jade Dragon

Vector

Samhain

 

Reserves

Morph

Tesseract

 

I'm not happy with Durak as the team brick, and I've waffled on putting Holocaust and the Engineer in the leader's spot. I'm still reluctant to use anyone from CWW, just because it'd be nice to be able to recommend a team to a newbie GM who can only afford the main villain books. Taipan would pretty much replace Jade Dragon and Vector on his own.

 

Samhain, being utterly evil, has his own problems, but he also adds visual flair and his high PRE is a real kick in the teeth.

 

Huh, I hadn't really thought of Interface as a field commander - he seems to prefer to work more behind the scenes these days. I forgot that he does have an appropriate background, though, so goodonya. :)

 

As long as you're taking villains out of other teams/groups, how about using Ripper as team brick? Either Interface or the Engineer would be able to maintain his cybernetics, and Mentalla could reign in his Berserk rages to make him more tactically useful.

 

No disrespect intended, but Samhain took me by surprise. I like the character myself, but the others in this team want wealth and/or power; Samhain desires nothing but terror, suffering and chaos. I find it hard to believe the others would be willing to put up with him, or that he'd take the orders of Interface or almost anyone else.

 

If you're willing to consider Samhain, why not take the "League of Evil" concept literally? Go for a group that's motivated purely by the desire to cause evil, and put Samhain at the head of it. He's certainly cunning and charismatic enough.

 

Samhain (leader)

Black Paladin

Talisman

The Monster

Morningstar

Shadowdragon

 

Reserves

Masquerade

Hornet

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

 

If you're willing to consider Samhain, why not take the "League of Evil" concept literally? Go for a group that's motivated purely by the desire to cause evil, and put Samhain at the head of it. He's certainly cunning and charismatic enough.

 

Samhain (leader)

Black Paladin

Talisman

The Monster

Morningstar

Shadowdragon

 

Reserves

Masquerade

Hornet

 

This is good as well, though they really should have a world class mind controller to stomp on them before they kill one-another. Maybe Talisman has finally developed a few high level KS for access to rituals to keep the others on a leash. :)

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

This is good as well' date=' though they really should have a world class mind controller to stomp on them before they kill one-another. Maybe Talisman has finally developed a few high level KS for access to rituals to keep the others on a leash. :)[/quote']

 

In Samhain you have a villain with a 60 Presence and a Presence Drain attack, plus major fear inducing Mind Control and Mental Illusions. I'd say he would have the leash pretty firmly in hand. :eg:

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

In Samhain you have a villain with a 60 Presence and a Presence Drain attack' date=' plus major fear inducing Mind Control and Mental Illusions. I'd say he would have the leash pretty firmly in hand. :eg:[/quote']

 

The problem being, he has no special reason to value the fear of other mortals over the terror he can induce in his team mates, even if he is smart enough to know that he can induce larger scale terror with those team mates working for him. In turn, his team mates all have enough pride that they would rebell fairly quickly if being held together through terror. In the short term he could bully them into obedience; in the long term the group falls apart as soon as they figure out how to kill him.

 

You catch more Supervillains with honey than with massive fear based PRE attacks. ;)

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Well, there's no Limitation on Samhain's Presence saying that it has to be fear-based. Besides, fear plus an enhanced prospect for reward is usually a good way to keep the minions in line. It works well for Dr. Destroyer, and most other "alpha male" types.

 

But really, just look at the rest of the lineup I suggested. These are all literal monsters, who would enjoy the suffering that Samhain brings nearly as much as Samhain himself. That prospect alone is motive for them to follow him. In turn, Samhain does have a "special reason to value the fear of other mortals over the terror he can induce in his team mates." The fear he might engender in other horrors like himself could never compare to the delicious fear from innocent, vulnerable, corruptible humans, and this crew can help him spread that more widely than he ever could alone.

 

FWIW I used Samhain as part of my recent campaign-ending story arc, in which he was one of six of the most powerful demonic beings residing upon the Earth, bound to service by Takofanes, including the Murk, the Living Sphinx, Survalesh, Li Chun the Destroyer, and Eclipsar.

 

Samhain covertly helped the PC heroes discover how to break the binding, but after Takofanes was defeated Samhain was still able to persuade the other demons to continue to work together. :sneaky:

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Well' date=' there's no Limitation on Samhain's Presence saying that it has to be fear-based.[/quote']

 

Yes, and that pluss his 30 INT are what make it possible for this tor work.

 

Besides, fear plus an enhanced prospect for reward is usually a good way to keep the minions in line. It works well for Dr. Destroyer, and most other "alpha male" types.

 

Yes, but that's comics for you. Real criminal organizations function based on loyalty, need and family ties far more than fear. Destroyers most serious flaw as a villain is that he doesn't offer a vision to his followers that might inspire their loyalty. Making his Nazi ties much more explicit or otherwise giving him a philosophy to draw in the thug-a-be's would fix this. Viper has the same problem, in that their "philosophy" is a comic book hodge podge rather than anything that really inspires loyalty.

Of course, the counter argument that "this is a game simulating comic book reality" has a lot to say for itself. ;)

 

The fear he might engender in other horrors like himself could never compare to the delicious fear from innocent, vulnerable, corruptible humans, and this crew can help him spread that more widely than he ever could alone.

 

Or maybe making these powerful beings cower and crawl would be even more amusing.

 

FWIW I used Samhain as part of my recent campaign-ending story arc, in which he was one of six of the most powerful demonic beings residing upon the Earth, bound to service by Takofanes, including the Murk, the Living Sphinx, Survalesh, Li Chun the Destroyer, and Eclipsar.

 

Samhain covertly helped the PC heroes discover how to break the binding, but after Takofanes was defeated Samhain was still able to persuade the other demons to continue to work together. :sneaky:

 

Sounds like a good game. :)

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

I'm not happy with Durak as the team brick' date=' and I've waffled on putting Holocaust and the Engineer in the leader's spot. I'm still reluctant to use anyone from CWW, just because it'd be nice to be able to recommend a team to a newbie GM who can only afford the main villain books. Taipan would pretty much replace Jade Dragon and Vector on his own.[/quote']

 

Man, I pillaged CWW trying to ring every drop out that bugger. Still trying to feel like I got my money's worth out of it. The art is such an anchor around that book's neck.

 

Your team kinda emasculates Eurostar. You should have said that was one of the goals! :D Always glad to help make Fiasco look like a chump.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

The problem being, he has no special reason to value the fear of other mortals over the terror he can induce in his team mates, even if he is smart enough to know that he can induce larger scale terror with those team mates working for him. In turn, his team mates all have enough pride that they would rebell fairly quickly if being held together through terror. In the short term he could bully them into obedience; in the long term the group falls apart as soon as they figure out how to kill him.

 

You catch more Supervillains with honey than with massive fear based PRE attacks. ;)

 

I agree with OddHat, Samhain is not a team villain. Just doesn't fit IMO.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

From where I stand, there are four possible fits for a villain team.

 

1. The perfect member. He fits into a team easily, is a loyal subordinate, is in perfect synch with their goals, and is a perfect tactical component of the team.

 

2,.The pretty good fit. Maybe he has a psych lim or two that gets him in conflict with one of the other members, maybe he's not the best at teamwork, but he's going to be a faithful member of the team for aa long time.

 

3. The high maintenance character, This one is not altogether sympatico with the goals of the team, but can be nudged or manipulated into doing its collective will. He may have psych limitations or motifs that are greatly at odds with other characters, but isn't openly anyone's enemy. This guy can be a serious asset to the team, but requires patience, maintenance, and/or supervision.

 

4. The incompatable member. He's eirther tactically incompetent, or he's got a psych code or distinctive features or a social lim that makes him the mortal enemy of at least one teammate.

 

I see Samhain as a #3, not a #4. And while a team of #3s is unwieldy, a couple of them on a team can make it more interesting.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Is it too late to throw: The Master Plan at you?

 

Foxbat (Thinks he's the Leader)

Bulldozer

Armadillo

Ankylosaur

Zigzag

Pulsar

 

Reserves:

Cybermind

Telios (disguised as Fenris) (Leader)

 

Basically, a group of "Wish They were second stringers" who are put together by Telios (who is pretending to be Fenris...why? Because, that's why) It is almost the perfect team of delusions of grandeur and technical know nothing. Cybermind again can communicate with the powered armored guys and not need to fear radio reception. Foxbat is insane and any group that has he and Bulldozer in it will be underestimated. ZigZag and Pulsar are farily versitile fighters, and The "A-Team" of powered armor fighters can "play with the big boys" at least for a bit.

Why did Fenris put this team together? Most likely to pick fights and gather data, or to blow off some steam and enjoy himself.

What happens when the real Fenris wonders who the imposter is?

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

From where I stand, there are four possible fits for a villain team.

 

1. The perfect member. He fits into a team easily, is a loyal subordinate, is in perfect synch with their goals, and is a perfect tactical component of the team.

 

2,.The pretty good fit. Maybe he has a psych lim or two that gets him in conflict with one of the other members, maybe he's not the best at teamwork, but he's going to be a faithful member of the team for aa long time.

 

3. The high maintenance character, This one is not altogether sympatico with the goals of the team, but can be nudged or manipulated into doing its collective will. He may have psych limitations or motifs that are greatly at odds with other characters, but isn't openly anyone's enemy. This guy can be a serious asset to the team, but requires patience, maintenance, and/or supervision.

 

4. The incompatable member. He's eirther tactically incompetent, or he's got a psych code or distinctive features or a social lim that makes him the mortal enemy of at least one teammate.

 

I see Samhain as a #3, not a #4. And while a team of #3s is unwieldy, a couple of them on a team can make it more interesting.

 

This is an excellent breakdown of teammate categories with which I am in complete agreement; but IMHO in most cases Samhain is not going to make it to #3 without reinterpreting the character, which goes against the spirit of what you're trying to achieve here. Mostly because of one pesky Psychological Limitation on his sheet: "Utterly Evil, Can Never Perform Kind Or Unselfish Acts (Very Common, Total)." In a group whose overall malevolence approaches his own Samhain might count as a #3, maybe even #2, but I find it hard to see villains with even a modicum of human decency putting up with him for any length of time. Or him putting up with them, for that matter. It wouldn't be long before he was openly everyone's enemy.

 

However, as part of a team of monsters, especially if he's the one setting the agenda, I could see Samhain being very effective. He's smart, he's charismatic, and his powers have great team support potential.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

This is an excellent breakdown of teammate categories with which I am in complete agreement; but IMHO in most cases Samhain is not going to make it to #3 without reinterpreting the character' date=' which goes against the spirit of what you're trying to achieve here. Mostly because of one pesky Psychological Limitation on his sheet: "Utterly Evil, Can Never Perform Kind Or Unselfish Acts (Very Common, Total)." In a group whose overall malevolence approaches his own Samhain might count as a #3, maybe even #2, but I find it hard to see villains with even a modicum of human decency putting up with him for any length of time. Or him putting up with them, for that matter. It wouldn't be long before he was openly [b']everyone's[/b] enemy.

 

However, as part of a team of monsters, especially if he's the one setting the agenda, I could see Samhain being very effective. He's smart, he's charismatic, and his powers have great team support potential.

 

Here's how I'd do it:

 

Mentalla: So we're about to go on an operation. I hate to ask, but... shouldn't we siummon Hornhead?

Interface: I'll get him.

Mentalla: If he starts telling me what a pretty throat I have, I'll fry his brain!

[interface goes to a communications device, contacts Samhain's summoning pool, which he's being arbitrarily given.]

Interface: Samhain, we've got another... uh, what the hell are you doing with those druids?

Samhain: It is best not to inquire about such matters.

Interface: Uh, yeah, right. Anyway, we got ourselves a job, and could use your help in sowing terror and discord.

Samhain: Are you willing to pay my price? Will you sacrifice seven virgins to me?

Interface: No! Are you insane? (pauses) Don't answer that. I don't need to hear that laugh of yours... no, we are not sacrificing virgins to you.That's disgusting!

Samhain: Many people feel like that about the Old Ways. They are as soft as the flesh on an unslashed throat.

Interface: Uh, yeah, look, we just need the job done, okay? And if we come across some magical trinket, it's yours.

Samhain: You are so materialistic, Interface. You need to relax and learn how to have some... fun.

Interface: With my blood pressure? Not likely. On the other hand, if we run into any superheroes, you can sacrifice to your hesrt's content.

Samhain: Unfortunately, the only virgins among that breed are the men. Even so, you know how much I enjoy our.... sport. I will come.

[interface goes over to the teleport device his base is being arbitrarily given and actiivates the controls.]

Interface (muttering to self): And people wonder why I prefer robots. Still, when those spandex-clad morons start screaming, it's all worth it...

 

No, Samhain's not a great fit. But a fish out of water character makes a team more interesting, and so does a little discord. And by keeping him at arm's length and giving him a chance to, the team can deal with him as they need, while avoiding all the entanglements of an interpersonal relationship that would tire very quickly. I suspect that Samhain would be pleased with such a partnership. And there's not much human decency in the others.

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Re: Build Me A Villain Team

 

Mentalla: So we're about to go on an operation. I hate to ask, but... shouldn't we siummon Hornhead?

Interface: I'll get him.

Mentalla: If he starts telling me what a pretty throat I have, I'll fry his brain!

[interface goes to a communications device, contacts Samhain's summoning pool, which he's being arbitrarily given.]

Interface: Samhain, we've got another... uh, what the hell are you doing with those druids?

Samhain: It is best not to inquire about such matters.

Interface: Uh, yeah, right. Anyway, we got ourselves a job, and could use your help in sowing terror and discord.

Samhain: Are you willing to pay my price? Will you sacrifice seven virgins to me?

Interface: No! Are you insane? (pauses) Don't answer that. I don't need to hear that laugh of yours... no, we are not sacrificing virgins to you.That's disgusting!

Samhain: Many people feel like that about the Old Ways. They are as soft as the flesh on an unslashed throat.

Interface: Uh, yeah, look, we just need the job done, okay? And if we come across some magical trinket, it's yours.

Samhain: You are so materialistic, Interface. You need to relax and learn how to have some... fun.

Interface: With my blood pressure? Not likely. On the other hand, if we run into any superheroes, you can sacrifice to your hesrt's content.

Samhain: Unfortunately, the only virgins among that breed are the men. Even so, you know how much I enjoy our.... sport. I will come.

[interface goes over to the teleport device his base is being arbitrarily given and actiivates the controls.]

Interface (muttering to self): And people wonder why I prefer robots. Still, when those spandex-clad morons start screaming, it's all worth it...

 

:rofl:

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