WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

[starblaze]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Flesh Gordon - Dude' date=' I am the ghost of Christmas Past, and ... whoa, your mom is hot. Here, why don't you just chill for a while with a nog, and ... okay, fine, on with the tour. Where, were you. So, this girl was your first love. Man, what were you thinking? You dumped her? Look at her! She's totally into you! What were you thinking? You are totally lame. I guess I'm supposed to do the present now. Wooo. Woo-dee-whoo, I'm the Ghost of Christmas Present. You buying this? No? Whatever. Man, everyone in this whole burg is partying, eating, drinking, having a great time, and you just want to hang out alone in a freezing bedroom. You need to get drunk and laid worse any man I've ever known. Even Doctor Destroyer has a better time at Christmas, and that man hasn't taken off his armor in decades. Really whiffy now too. What? Oh yeah, poor kids. Man, that's sad. You could spot them a dinner, you know? Wah wah wah; man, if you're going to get all Ayn Rand about a little basic charity, there's something wrong with you. Ayn Rand. Skinny Jewish chick. Emotional problems. Not a bad time in a freaky college girl intellectual way if you got a few drinks in her, but she will not stop talking. What? Oh, yeah. Now I'm, like, the future. Christmas future. Dude, you are one sour, depressing old fart, and if you don't learn to make a little basic human contact then really, what the heck was the point of your life anyway? Now go give that dude who works for you a raise, and ask your nephew if he knows any friendly widows or spinsters or something. Dude, trust me, there are some women in the fifty plus crowd who remain truly fine. Mmmm. Merry Christmas.[/quote']

 

Ah, thank you, I missed Flesh Gordon. :thumbup:

[Grimble]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

I might spring this on my PCs just to see how they'll deal with it. I've got a very odd group:

 

Metal Master: Geeky dilitante with metal skin and metal control powers.

 

Righteous Fury: Repentant female demon. Horns,burning eyes,red tinged skin.

 

Victoria Celeste: Animate victorian doll with variable spell pool and magic items. She used to be an evil wizards familiar during the early 1800s.

 

Rick the Brick: 4' tall brick red mutant 65 STR and 45rPD,45rED.

 

Hunting Specter: Female Predator style alien with mental powers.

 

James Bond: Yep. That James Bond. He busted into a villians high energy experiment while in his car. He and the car traveled from 1963 England to 2005 Pheonix AR. Now leader of the World Watchers.

 

I think I might change the premise a bit. The Phantom Stranger will be traded in for a Cosmic Prankster that the characters have not met. He has prevented the Christmas ghosts from doing their job, so he can watch the ill-suited PCs try to save Christmas.

 

 

Merry Humbug!

Grimble

[starblaze]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Jake the Troll - "Hey' date=' old guy! Merry Christmas Eve! Try this ludafisk! Go on, it's partially gelled whitefish, soaked in lye! What, it's not like it's any worse than what you were eating before. Um...Ok. So, we gotta take you to the past, which means we need to step here into the spirit world *[i']tears open the gates to the Other[/i]* mind the Veil, there, and then try to step back into the Material Realm! Here we are in 754 BC. D'oh! OK, I can fix this, but you're gonna have to hiberante for a couple of millenia. G'night! *Buries Scrooge in the ground, and puts him to sleep for 2000 years plus change. 3 months later in Jake's timeline, he manages to get to the place and time to wake up Scrooge.* "Whoot! I rule! Right, so I need to sneak you around and show you how much your life doesn't suck. Activate leet troll ninja powerz! Um..it's a magic spell. Shut up." *Throws Scrooge over his shoulder, and goes leaping around Merry Olde England like a kabuki-black-clad-Hulk.* "OK, now that we've shown you how much you blow in comparison to when you were young, I'm gonna hand it off to my main lady here, Emma....wait, we're still in the past." *Knocks Scrooge out and buries him in the ground again. 20 years later (4 days by Jake's timeline), goes and digs him up, and leaves him in his bed for Emma to find.*

 

Icon - "Hey, Mr. Scrooge, why are you covered in dirt and clay? No, I'm not going to change my clothes for your Victorian sensibilities. It's perfectly appropriate wear for...us spirits...to wear. Yeah." *Grabs Scrooge in an energy fold, and yanks him around London at the speed of light. Realizes at the first stop that kevlar-lined spandex really isn't helping the cuase. Changes her outfit to something more appropraite, probably by hitting up the Scrooge coffers for a couple of pounds sterling.* "Right, that was embarassing. Now, I"m going to hand you off to Mr. Creepy, here. Take it away, Shinji-kun!"

 

Shinji Miromoto - "Greeting to you, Sukurugu-san. Please excuse the burdern of foreknowledge." *Runs a current of dark psychic energy through Scrooge's brain* "The ears and the nose should stop bleeding in several minutes, Sukrugu-san. This one begs your forgiveness." *Leaves.*

 

Uhhh, what? :confused: :confused:

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Maybe there is something I'm not grasping here about your faith.

 

Please don't talk about players as if they hold the same metaphysical beliefs as their characters. Wait until we identify our beliefs directly (in the 1st person) before attributing those beliefs to the player.

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

But isn't (and this is no doubt a rather simplistic take)' date=' Buddhism in part about walking a path to go past his ignorance and greed to become something better? To do nothing and let this man spread his "philosophy" to make the world a darker would seem to contradict such values. Maybe there is something I'm not grasping here about your faith.[/quote']

Yes, and in my PERSONAL opinion, miserly self-centered behavior would be a lot easier to get past than the materialism of gift giving.

 

Look at how Alice the Owl becomes attached to gifts she never wanted and doesn't like:

Yep. Stinky perfume candles' date=' every last one of 'em. I haven't the heart to throw them out, so they inhabit a very stinky box in the back of storage.[/quote']

 

Don't forget' date=' anything that's been in storage for 2 years is fair game to be tossed out. Gifts, old items you no longer need, broken stuff that never got fixed, etc. If it hasn't been useful in 2 years, the rule is you don't need it. Maybe donate it to Goodwill or a thrift store so someone else can enjoy it.[/quote']

 

I think you have me confused for another gender.

 

I'm female. Therefore, if someone I love gave it to me, it NEVER gets thrown out.

This is not an isolated case.

In one famous study, "Experimental Tests of the Endowment Effect and the Coase Theorem" by Nobel Prize-winning psychologist Daniel Kahneman and two coauthors, published in 1990 in the Journal of Political Economy, students at Simon Fraser University in Canada were given coffee mugs from the college bookstore and then asked whether they would sell the mugs at prices ranging from 25 cents to $9.25. A second group was asked whether they would buy a mug at the same prices. Those who received the gifts were possessive of their new treasures, and were coaxed into giving them up only at prices above $7.12. But those who did not receive the mugs as gifts found them unattractive, and were willing to buy them only if they cost less than $3.12.

 

That $4 difference is attributable to the psychological value of a gift. The recipient experienced a thrill when he or she received the mug, which became the apple of their eye. Those who were offered a chance to buy a mug experienced no such thrill.

Now from a Buddhist perspective, attachment to a material possession, from it's intrensic value or from sentamental value, is a self-destructive trap.

 

Now note how in the original story Ebenezer's attitude begain to change once he became aware of the existance of Tiny Tim, once he felt compassion for a single child that he did not feel toward the faceless masses. A single feeling of compassion can begin to melt the heart of a Scrooge, yet attachment to the giving and receiving of gifts would have to be overcome one item at a time.

 

YMMV.

[Lucius]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Dolphin: "Wait a second. One book' date=' one hundred and fifty years old, in public domane, that can't be uses as a marketng ploy, is having that much effect in America? Not possible. [i']Somebody[/i] has a financial or supernatural interest in this. Who's behind it?"

 

That’s kind of my thinking. Stormwalker, realizing the story he’s being told doesn’t make any sense, would probably suspect the Stranger of trying to manipulate him and his friends somehow – unless the Stranger is himself somehow a dupe.

 

I'm sorry if I'm being dense but I'm not following.

 

1. You do realize that your character was exempted from the effects of the change in history and hence he realizes what the original story was as well as how drastic these changes in the world are.

 

.

 

Yes, of course. That’s why my response is what it is. Because my character sees that this doesn’t add up.

 

but really, if you can't even save Christmas, what kinda hero are ya?

 

A Buddhist one. With a Buddhist player' date=' whose four other characters nonetheless went along with it.[/quote']

 

In Quetzelcoatl’s case, a Jewish-Buddhist one who pretends to traditional Meso-American beliefs in his superheroic ID.

 

In Stormwalker’s case, a Pagan hero sired by a Thunder God.

 

 

Please don't talk about players as if they hold the same metaphysical beliefs as their characters. Wait until we identify our beliefs directly (in the 1st person) before attributing those beliefs to the player.

 

I could be mistaken, but I think the player in this case did identify as Buddhist. See below:

 

A Buddhist one. With a Buddhist player' date=' whose four other characters nonetheless went along with it.[/quote']

 

To do nothing and let this man spread his "philosophy" to make the world a darker would seem to contradict such values. Maybe there is something I'm not grasping here about your faith.

 

There’s something here you’re not quite grasping about your own story.

 

Okay, let’s play along. Assume an unrepentant, morally unregenerate Scrooge. A man who loves the acquisition and accumulation of his own wealth above all else. What is he going to do, specifically re: Christmas?

 

He’s going to write A Christmas Carol, or a book very like it, or, as I said, hire Dickens to write it for him. He is going to do everything in his power to create Christmas as it currently exists, because Christmas is a means for him and his ilk to acquire obscene profits. Of course, he’ll do a lot of other things too – he’ll notice that Prince Albert is making Christmas Trees popular so he’ll buy some land with evergreens and have them cut down, hauled to London, and sold. He’ll invest in sweatshops making cheap ornaments and toys, and stores to sell them. But the one thing he WON’T do is anything to subvert or undercut the idea of Christmas.

 

What you fail to grasp about your own scenario is that it does. not. make. sense. You are presenting us with a character who holds certain values and then asking us to believe that he will behave in a manner utterly at odds with those values. Either the Phantom Stranger does not understand that what he’s saying does not make sense – in which case he’s not much in the Omniscience department – or he does understand that what he is saying does not make sense, in which case he is trying to manipulate the heroes somehow – and some of my characters in that situation will want to know why, and what’s really going on.

 

Mind you, SOME of my characters would be naïve enough to fall for this. But what would you really expect Can Opener to do?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What Would the Palindromedary Do?

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Please don't talk about players as if they hold the same metaphysical beliefs as their characters. Wait until we identify our beliefs directly (in the 1st person) before attributing those beliefs to the player.

I am Buddhist. As long as we've know each other this never came up?

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

I could be mistaken' date=' but I think the player in this case did identify as Buddhist.[/quote']

 

You're right. I missed that in McCoy's older posts and Powerhouse's bold text

 

(Powerhouse - there's a "text balloon" button in the reply editor that will wrap quote tags around selected text, saving you the time of typing all that in yourself.)

 

I am, on occasion, overly vigilant in the cry of "It is possible to play characters whose beliefs we do not share!"

 

__________________

" . . . that would be why they call it roleplaying, no?"

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Uhhh' date=' what? :confused: :confused:[/quote']

 

Ghost of Christmas...

 

past - Jake the Troll - teenaged Catholic norse nature god. Has the ability to step through time/space, but isn't very experienced at it. Looks like a large, anthropomorphic lizard. Like all trolls, he's very sneaky. And, like other trolls, he's very handy in the kitchen. (Trolls can be considered hearth spirits.). Thus, he makes a good Christmas Past.

 

present - Icon - 16 year Flying Brick/Energy Manipulator. Supergirl homage. Wears tight spandex, as her energy field tends to be very close to her skin, and prevents her from wearing anything else. Doesn't really fit anywhere else, but Christmas Present was female, so she can do OK here.

 

future - Shinji Miromoto - ex-anime villian lieutenent. Martial Artist and Dark Psychic. Has the ability to generate precognitive visions, but only those dealing with destruction, anger, and other "dark" emotions. Using this ability on people who are not native Dark Energy wielders tends to cause brain hemmorages. Does extremely well as Christmas Future, as he can actually show Scrooge what his ultimate consequences will be.

[Powerhouse]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Edited: removed response to Robyn since the mistake was noticed. Cool

 

From McCoy:

 

Now note how in the original story Ebenezer's attitude begain to change once he became aware of the existance of Tiny Tim, once he felt compassion for a single child that he did not feel toward the faceless masses. A single feeling of compassion can begin to melt the heart of a Scrooge, yet attachment to the giving and receiving of gifts would have to be overcome one item at a time.

 

To me, it's that compassion that he learns which is one of the true purposes on the tale, along with emphasis on charity. I think we will have to agree to disagree since yes, Christmas has become too materialistic at times but I think that your (or the character's take on it) focuses too much on materalism and not enough on the virtues of compassion, charity, and goodwill towards fellow man that the Christmas Carol is about. That's just a chasm that neither of us can seem to cross. That said, I do appreciate your responses and their thoughtfulness.

 

There’s something here you’re not quite grasping about your own story.

 

Okay, let’s play along. Assume an unrepentant, morally unregenerate Scrooge. A man who loves the acquisition and accumulation of his own wealth above all else. What is he going to do, specifically re: Christmas? He’s going to write A Christmas Carol, or a book very like it, or, as I said, hire Dickens to write it for him. He is going to do everything in his power to create Christmas as it currently exists, because Christmas is a means for him and his ilk to acquire obscene profits. Of course, he’ll do a lot of other things too – he’ll notice that Prince Albert is making Christmas Trees popular so he’ll buy some land with evergreens and have them cut down, hauled to London, and sold. He’ll invest in sweatshops making cheap ornaments and toys, and stores to sell them. But the one thing he WON’T do is anything to subvert or undercut the idea of Christmas.

 

Except that's NOT what he's done. He did not commision Dickens to write a book telling people to give others presents so that he could profit. He wrote a book instead (and my apologies if I did not make this clear) that puts down Christmas, charity, and gift-giving. Quoting myself:

 

Your character wakes up one Christmas Eve, only to find things are... different. When you say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" the other person just scowls and mutters "Bah Humbug." There are no holiday decorations, Christmas trees, or good cheer. The final part of the puzzle is a display in your favorite bookstore of the month's best seller: "A Christmas Humbug" by Ebenezzer Scrooge!

 

No trees, not decorations, no gift-giving and thus no profit as you have assumed. In the book he has NO use for Christmas, not even to make money. Again, I probably should have been even clearer and not made assumptions. Scrooge is a character who detests Christmas in every way, even as a way to make money. He never indicates any desire to profit. So the book, since he has not been changed, is to put down Christmas and it becomes as much of an influence as the Christmas Carol does although it's a negative one.

 

Admittedly, it can be a stretch that one book could have such an effect but again, light hearted comic book adventure.

 

What you fail to grasp about your own scenario is that it does. not. make. sense. You are presenting us with a character who holds certain values and then asking us to believe that he will behave in a manner utterly at odds with those values.

 

Except he IS acting in character, ie someone who disdains the holiday and all it represents. I'm pretty sure that I didn't miss a section where Scrooge was sending out people to cut down Christmas trees for profit. That he would suddenly decide that it's a money making idea I suppose is plausiable but isn't probable and indeed it's contradicted in the initial post.

 

Please understand, I'm not trying to railroad you and if your character decides that Christmas isn't worth saving, that's fine. But I hope that I've bridged the gap between us so that you at the least understand where I'm coming from and the scenario.

 

Thank you, and thank everyone for your responses so far. Some really great ones so far... but Flesh's still takes the cake.

[Whitewings]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

McCoy: I think you're missing something about the original Christmas Carol story. It's not really about Christmas or Scrooge's feelings toward it; it's about caring, compassion, love and mercy, all of which Scrooge loathes, in both reality and symbol. So instead of being a powerful novel about a man who learns the value of compassion and love, the novel, still powerful, would become a tale about a man who overcomes spirits seeking to teach him false and foolish values, and his successful rejection of them and confirmation of his ways as right and true. It would become a novel triumphantly crying the "virtues" of callous, greedy and heartless actions, of selfishness and ruthless and unbounded self-interest. Would Dolphin honestly consider this to be better, or at least no worse, than the current state of affairs?

 

Oh, and yes, Scrooge would want to destroy Christmas. He hates the holiday and all it represents. No, it's not necessarily rational, but Scrooge isn't all that rational on the subject. Besides, he's not a manufacturer, he's a moneylender. Christmas puts no money in his pocket.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

McCoy: I think you're missing something about the original Christmas Carol story. It's not really about Christmas or Scrooge's feelings toward it; it's about caring' date=' compassion, love and mercy, all of which Scrooge loathes, in both reality and symbol. So instead of being a powerful novel about a man who learns the value of compassion and love, the novel, still powerful, would become a tale about a man who overcomes spirits seeking to teach him false and foolish values, and his successful rejection of them and confirmation of his ways as right and true. It would become a novel triumphantly crying the "virtues" of callous, greedy and heartless actions, of selfishness and ruthless and unbounded self-interest.[/quote']

 

It would, in short, become an Ayn Rand novel.

[Powerhouse]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

McCoy: I think you're missing something about the original Christmas Carol story. It's not really about Christmas or Scrooge's feelings toward it; it's about caring, compassion, love and mercy, all of which Scrooge loathes, in both reality and symbol. So instead of being a powerful novel about a man who learns the value of compassion and love, the novel, still powerful, would become a tale about a man who overcomes spirits seeking to teach him false and foolish values, and his successful rejection of them and confirmation of his ways as right and true. It would become a novel triumphantly crying the "virtues" of callous, greedy and heartless actions, of selfishness and ruthless and unbounded self-interest. Would Dolphin honestly consider this to be better, or at least no worse, than the current state of affairs?

 

Rep to Whitewings for putting it so perfectly.

 

And my apologies for not wording it myself as clearly as this. Much rep and much thanks!

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Except that's NOT what he's done. He did not commision Dickens to write a book telling people to give others presents so that he could profit. He wrote a book instead (and my apologies if I did not make this clear) that puts down Christmas, charity, and gift-giving. Quoting myself:

 

Your character wakes up one Christmas Eve, only to find things are... different. When you say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" the other person just scowls and mutters "Bah Humbug." There are no holiday decorations, Christmas trees, or good cheer. The final part of the puzzle is a display in your favorite bookstore of the month's best seller: "A Christmas Humbug" by Ebenezzer Scrooge!

What you are apparently no grasping about Dolphin's and Stormwalker's objection is that it is extremely unlikely that a single book would be that influentual. A Christmas Humbug is very unlikely to lead to profitable marketing, unlike A Christmas Carol. Yet it is still a best seller more than a hundred and fifty years later?

 

When was the last time Dickens was on the best seller list? Other than Dickens, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Frankenstein, are any novels from that period still in print? Why didn't the older "A Visit from St. Nicholas," and the massive advertising it inspired, overwhelm the influence of A Christmas Humbug?

It would' date=' in short, become an Ayn Rand novel.[/quote']

And when was Ayn Rand last on the best seller list?

 

Somebody is profiting from this. Dolphin wants to follow the money.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

What you are apparently no grasping about Dolphin's and Stormwalker's objection is that it is extremely unlikely that a single book would be that influentual. A Christmas Humbug is very unlikely to lead to profitable marketing' date=' unlike [i']A Christmas Carol[/i]. Yet it is still a best seller more than a hundred and fifty years later?

 

When was the last time Dickens was on the best seller list? Other than Dickens, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Frankenstein, are any novels from that period still in print? Why didn't the older "A Visit from St. Nicholas," and the massive advertising it inspired, overwhelm the influence of A Christmas Humbug?

 

And when was Ayn Rand last on the best seller list?

 

Somebody is profiting from this. Dolphin wants to follow the money.

 

Christmasical Literalism.

 

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

McCoy: I think you're missing something about the original Christmas Carol story. It's not really about Christmas or Scrooge's feelings toward it; it's about caring, compassion, love and mercy, all of which Scrooge loathes, in both reality and symbol. So instead of being a powerful novel about a man who learns the value of compassion and love, the novel, still powerful, would become a tale about a man who overcomes spirits seeking to teach him false and foolish values, and his successful rejection of them and confirmation of his ways as right and true. It would become a novel triumphantly crying the "virtues" of callous, greedy and heartless actions, of selfishness and ruthless and unbounded self-interest. Would Dolphin honestly consider this to be better, or at least no worse, than the current state of affairs?

 

Oh, and yes, Scrooge would want to destroy Christmas. He hates the holiday and all it represents. No, it's not necessarily rational, but Scrooge isn't all that rational on the subject. Besides, he's not a manufacturer, he's a moneylender. Christmas puts no money in his pocket.

Did it topple Christianity all together, or did the attention of the Christian calender refocus on Easter as the season of hope and charity?

 

In many ways Mardi Gras is very Buddhist. The beads represent materalism, greed, vanity, and other worldly concerns. At midnight, you take them off and begin preperation for Easter.

[Whitewings]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

When was the last time Dickens was on the best seller list? Other than Dickens' date=' [i']The Hunchback of Notre Dame[/i], and Frankenstein, are any novels from that period still in print?

 

Oh, yes. Oh, very much yes. Without even getting up I can see several: Gulliver's Travels, Treasure Island, Doctor Dolittle, and Ivanhoe (which I'm pretty sure is earlier). All of Robert Lois Stevenson's works are still in print, and Lewis Carrol's. Victor Hugo, the Brontë sisters, Emily Dickinson, all of them can found in most better bookstores or any decent library.

[Powerhouse]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

What you are apparently no grasping about Dolphin's and Stormwalker's objection is that it is extremely unlikely that a single book would be that influentual. A Christmas Humbug is very unlikely to lead to profitable marketing, unlike A Christmas Carol. Yet it is still a best seller more than a hundred and fifty years later?

 

I said it before, I'll say it again: you're thinking a little too hard. It's just a light-hearted adventure and both Dolphin and Stormwalker are too modern/cynical/analytical to go along with or accept it. It's cool and just not their cup of tea. While I can see that they wouldn't buy the PS's tale, their disbelief doesn't invalidate it as they seem to think it does. Heck, that itself could be a fun little thing involving belief, faith, and miracles or that the largest of journies can begin with the smallest and most unlikely of steps. Fun all around.

 

Somebody is profiting from this. Dolphin wants to follow the money.

 

Except somebody isn't profiting from it.... it's an incorrect assumption that Dolphin is making.

 

I guess the Phantom Stranger analogue knows who not to go to.... hence my little joke about him wanting to find a Silver Age team that doesn't question plot.

 

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Oh' date=' yes. Oh, very much yes. Without even getting up I can see several: Gulliver's Travels, Treasure Island, Doctor Dolittle, and Ivanhoe (which I'm pretty sure is earlier). All of Robert Lois Stevenson's works are still in print, and Lewis Carrol's. Victor Hugo, the Brontë sisters, Emily Dickinson, all of them can found in most better bookstores or any decent library.[/quote']

Gulliver's Travels 1726

Frankenstein 1817

Ivanhoe 1819

The Hunchback of Notre Dame 1831

A Christmas Carol 1843

Wuthering Heights 1847

Sonnets from the Portuguese 1850

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland 1865

Treasure Island 1883

Dr. Doolittle 1920

 

That's a one hundred and ninty four year span there, I should have specified "First half of the 19th century." I'll give you Scott, both Brownings, and all the Brontes. When is the last time any of them hit the best seller list?

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

What you are apparently no grasping about Dolphin's and Stormwalker's objection is that it is extremely unlikely that a single book would be that influentual. A Christmas Humbug is very unlikely to lead to profitable marketing' date=' unlike A Christmas Carol. Yet it is still a best seller more than a hundred and fifty years later? [/b']

 

I said it before, I'll say it again: you're thinking a little too hard. It's just a light-hearted adventure and both Dolphin and Stormwalker are too modern/cynical/analytical to go along with or accept it. It's cool and just not their cup of tea. While I can see that they wouldn't buy the PS's tale, their disbelief doesn't invalidate it as they seem to think it does. Heck, that itself could be a fun little thing involving belief, faith, and miracles or that the largest of journies can begin with the smallest and most unlikely of steps. Fun all around.

 

Somebody is profiting from this. Dolphin wants to follow the money.

 

Except somebody isn't profiting from it.... it's an incorrect assumption that Dolphin is making.

 

I guess the Phantom Stranger analogue knows who not to go to.... hence my little joke about him wanting to find a Silver Age team that doesn't question plot.

 

Got it. Economics, history, and logic don't apply, it's a dream of sleeping Vishnu. Being a Buddhist and not a Hindu, Dolphin sits down and waits for it to be over.

[Whitewings]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

Gulliver's Travels 1726

Frankenstein 1817

Ivanhoe 1819

The Hunchback of Notre Dame 1831

A Christmas Carol 1843

Wuthering Heights 1847

Sonnets from the Portuguese 1850

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland 1865

Treasure Island 1883

Dr. Doolittle 1920

 

That's a one hundred and ninty four year span there, I should have specified "First half of the 19th century." I'll give you Scott, both Brownings, and all the Brontes. When is the last time any of them hit the best seller list?

The year they came out in book form, in most cases, and they still sell quite steadily in many, many editions and printings. The same is true of Ayn Rand, by the way: Many of her works were on the best seller lists and are still in print.

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

It would' date=' in short, become an Ayn Rand novel.[/quote']

 

Scooped. GMTA.

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

The year they came out in book form' date=' in most cases, and they still sell quite steadily in many, many editions and printings. The same is true of Ayn Rand, by the way: Many of her works were on the best seller lists and are still in print.[/quote']

And with the possible exception of Ivanhoe having influenced SCA, how many of these affect people's behavior five weeks of the year?

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

The year they came out in book form' date=' in most cases, and they still sell quite steadily in many, many editions and printings. The same is true of Ayn Rand, by the way: Many of her works were on the best seller lists and are still in print.[/quote']

 

To be fair, I think at least some of their sales come from the fact they are considered classic and are thus mandatory reading in many cases so are published and purchased in large bulk quantities.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: WWYCD: A Christmas Carol, Champions Style!

 

To be fair' date=' I think at least some of their sales come from the fact they are considered classic and are thus mandatory reading in many cases so are published and purchased in large bulk quantities.[/quote']

 

Well, yeah - but I think the main issue McCoy is having with the situation is that a single work of popular fiction shouldn't have THAT much of an impact. In comparison, other literary works that have had major impact on society (the Koran and the Bible) have had active communities supporting and evangalizing their messages. A Christmas Carol, as currently written, doesn't have that. What changed that made the anti-Christmas Carol so infuential?