Modern day Angels?

[Gadodel]

You know, of the Messengers of God sort. How would you write them up? I am talking about stats and stuff.

[OddHat]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Depends on the theology and power levels of your campaign. I've used angels only once, and they were incorporeal and utterly immune to anything that a PC or NPC could do.

 

What do you plan to use them for?

[Gadodel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

 

What do you plan to use them for?

 

Revelations.

 

There's the Angels that John saw in his vision. Then, there are individual Guardian Angels that will come into play.

[OddHat]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Revelations.

 

There's the Angels that John saw in his vision. Then, there are individual Guardian Angels that will come into play.

 

Personally, I wouldn't stat out Angels who were actual, active messengers of G_d; in my campaigns, PCs shouldn't be able to directly threaten or interfere with anything on that level. I'd use them as plot devices only.

 

However, you might want to look at the Celestial Maiden and other character's in Mike Surbrook's Asian Bestiary I and II for a model of how to build heavenly creatures that can be met in situations where stats matter.

 

My own campaign has used Death Angel, a fallen Chinese Celestial Maiden partially based on Surbrook's designs.

[Gadodel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Personally, I wouldn't stat out Angels who were actual, active messengers of G_d; in my campaigns, PCs shouldn't be able to directly threaten or interfere with anything on that level. I'd use them as plot devices only.

 

My own campaign has used Death Angel, a fallen Chinese Celestial Maiden partially based on Surbrook's designs.

 

The only Plot Device will be G_d. Everyone, everything else will have to enter the Apocalypse!

 

I like the Death Angel write up, nice.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

IIRC, without pulling out my copy of Revelations and searching for the specifics on the Angels that appear, no fighting takes place. It's not a war between Heaven and Hell - it's God ending everything.

 

The Cherubim carry Gods Throne - they are the second highest order of the angels.

 

The Seraphim are the highest order and I believe they're the ones opening hte seals, blowing the horns and ringing the bells (? I forget what the third action is).

 

Even then the Four Horsemen are agents of God - not Satan. Archangel Michael is the only Angel that actively engages in battle with The Beast (Satan, a Seraph) in Revelation.

 

So - since you're going to deviate so much as to want to stat out Angels, and actually turn Revelations into a war. I suggest you model the Angels as opposites of the Demons (since a full third of heaven's host followed Satan when he was cast down); i.e. similar stats to what your Demons have in this game, whatever that may be.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Some time back our boardmate Kristopher started a thread, here, brainstorming a background for a NPC, an Angel of War. Interesting ideas were exchanged, and eventually Kristopher came up with an impressive writeup, which I shall link to directly: Saviel, The Scourge of Heaven

 

BTW should you come across a copy of the 5E Champions sourcebook, Vibora Bay,

it features background and full writeup for a (partly) fallen ex-Seraph, Therakiel the Halfway Angel, who is the major behind-the-scenes manipulator in that setting. Very high-powered character.

 

[Curufea]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Speaking of that name in Vibora Bay reminds me of another series that was dominated by angels. The Neon Genesis Evangelion - that Kabbalistic anime series about enlightenment, the Ego and the ID and huge, huge robots.

 

You could base the powers of the angels on the Angels in that series. Although you may not want them to be the size of skyscrapers.

[Gadodel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Oh! Cool. Thanks for the linkees.

 

[massey]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Jacob wrestled with an angel, so I'd put them at the high end of human stats (maybe at or just 5 points above whatever your human max was - across the board). Then I'd give them a whole bunch of powers. So you won't have angels with 75 Str, but they'll still be powerful.

 

So, one of mine would be something like (just off the top of my head):

 

Angel

 

Str 30

Dex 33

Con 33

Body 25

Int 30

Ego 30

Pre 35

Com 30

PD 20 (fully resistant)

ED 20 (fully resistant)

Spd 6

Rec 15

End 70

Stun 70

 

20" Flight (wings)

10" Running

2D6 HKA "firey sword" (not a focus, he summons it back to his hand instantly)

5 Body Regeneration/Turn

30 Mental Defense

30 Power Defense

10 Flash Defense (all senses)

 

Angelic Powers Multipower

20D6 Dispel vs evil magic/possession

Healing Aid

Mental Illusions (for sending visions)

Desolidification (0 End)

Invisibility

Shapeshift

 

Then they have access to an infinitely large Cosmic VPP if its use is a) necessary and justifies the use of God's time. It should be something suitably impressive, with blowing trumpets and light shining down from the sky.

["V"]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Key thing- don't have Angels be pretty effeminate creatures in ethereal robes. Heck, while they can look human I don't think that's their base state.

 

Remember the first thing any Angel visiting a human says, according to the Bible: "Fear not" - that suggests a certain amount of fearing is going on by default. Even when they look human I think they ought to project a certain amount of raw power that can seriously unsettle the contactee.

 

Here's a link to the first chapter of the Book of the prophet Ezekiel, poor guy, which describes his encounter with some Angels:

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze001.html

 

As a highlight for you:

 

"And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another. Each one of them went straight forward, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above. Each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies"

[Curufea]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Which can be taken as implied endorsement for recreational drug use

 

Seriously though - Angels should be scarey. They're the equivalent of demigods. I'd make them impossible to kill in much the same way (and for the same reasons) that most Cthulhu beasties are impossible to kill - they exist on a different plane to the rest of us.

["V"]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

As an interesting example of Angels in 'play' as it were, look at the account of the destruction of the cities of the plain in Genesis. God has heard that the wickedness of the inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah has got a bit out of control so he sends a couple of his angels to investigate in the form of two men.

 

I know this leaves questions unanswered about the whole Omniscience thing, shush, He's being ineffable.

 

Anyway when they arrive in Sodom they're warned not to spend the night in the open in case the very wicked men of Sodom* try to do very wicked things to them, so they go to spend the night with Lot, Abraham's nephew.

 

There must be something about these Angels though, because the men of the city turn up at Lot's house & demand he surrenders the Angels to them to help with an amateur dramatic production of Deliverance. After some frankly disturbing negotiations based on the local laws of hospitality the men decide to rush the house at which point the Angels blind the whole crowd without breaking a sweat and then tell Lot & family they've seen enough & he should take his wife and daughters and get the heck out of there.

 

The city goes BLAMMO as they leave (though whether that's the Angels taking action or they've called in an airstrike from God, in a manner of speaking, is never explained).

 

*Later on in the Bible it's explained that the sin of Sodom for which it was destroyed was failing to attend to the needs of the poor. These particular men have other things on their mind, but according to scripture it's not their alternative lifestyle and anger issues that caused the city's destruction. Just before anyone says I'm being judgemental toward wannabe rapists.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Here's a link to the first chapter of the Book of the prophet Ezekiel, poor guy, which describes his encounter with some Angels:

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze001.html

 

As a highlight for you:

 

"And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another. Each one of them went straight forward, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above. Each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies"

 

Ezekiel is not describing the angels that came to Earth. That's the description of a Cherubim, the second highest order.

 

Cherubim have a few roles:

1) They make up Gods living throne (called Merkabah somewhere in or around the passage you quoted).

2) They wield the flashing swords that keep man out from the Tree Of Knowledge.

3) They don't visit Earth; but do appear in visions.

 

 

One of the important things is there are different kinds of Angels in the bible, who have different roles and different appearances. Which means you can model them in varying degrees of power.

["V"]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Now when did I say they were the ones that came to earth? I mean obviously the cherubim wouldn't come to earth. What do you think I am, mad as Metatron?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

Now when did I say they were the ones that came to earth? I mean obviously the cherubim wouldn't come to earth. What do you think I am' date=' mad as Metatron?[/i']

 

Good, point. Mostly clarfying that you didn't describe the Angels or Archangels that talked to people in the bible.

[Curufea]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

In Nomine has some nice breakdowns of angel types - organising them into choirs and hierarchies.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

One of the things that bothers me about Dean Shomshak's generally excellent 5E updates of his 4E mystic Champions material, is that a lot of the characters and creatures he designed for that edition weren't redone for 5E. That includes writeups for angels, which while perhaps underpowered by Fifth Edition standards were still good concepts and designs that wouldn't be hard to upgrade. The Ultimate Supermage had an example of an Angel of Vengeance, while Ultimate Supermage Bestiary included an Angel of Mercy, Herald Angel and Warding Angel.

 

Gadodel, I don't suppose you could track down the PDF for those books?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

IIRC, without pulling out my copy of Revelations and searching for the specifics on the Angels that appear, no fighting takes place. It's not a war between Heaven and Hell - it's God ending everything.

 

The Cherubim carry Gods Throne - they are the second highest order of the angels.

 

The Seraphim are the highest order and I believe they're the ones opening hte seals, blowing the horns and ringing the bells (? I forget what the third action is).

 

Even then the Four Horsemen are agents of God - not Satan. Archangel Michael is the only Angel that actively engages in battle with The Beast (Satan, a Seraph) in Revelation.

 

So - since you're going to deviate so much as to want to stat out Angels, and actually turn Revelations into a war. I suggest you model the Angels as opposites of the Demons (since a full third of heaven's host followed Satan when he was cast down); i.e. similar stats to what your Demons have in this game, whatever that may be.

 

END TIMES!

 

END TIMES!!!!

 

Well, seriously. For me, serious. My level of seriousness, which isn't ever all that high to begin with, but say I were being serious for a moment.

 

END TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you're doing the whole End Times thing, then where's the game? If there's one thing no player wants it's to walk into an no-win situation. Why bother picking up the dice if its already the End of All Things? Ragnarok, Apocalypse, Armaged-it-on, whatever.

 

My question, boiled down and off my meds, is this: What's the core of your concept? Where is the heroism?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

My question' date=' boiled down and off my meds, is this: What's the core of your concept? Where is the heroism?[/quote']

 

If you're going to turn Revelations into a war instead of "Hi, I'm God. This Is The End."

 

I would suggest starting near the opening shots where the war actually starts, and it can be a very very slow start indeed. A skirmish here and there, jockeying for position, getting a hold of some key souls for either side.

 

Basically, I'd say Revelations starts about where one or both sides come out of their respective place and get much more hands on.

 

Something akin to some of the actions in the Prophecy series.

["V"]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

If you're going to turn Revelations into a war instead of "Hi' date=' I'm God. This Is The End." [/quote']

 

Hopefully looking like Jim Morrison while he does so. That would be really cool.

[Gadodel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

 

Gadodel, I don't suppose you could track down the PDF for those books?

 

I'll look into it, thanks.

[Gadodel]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

 

 

My question, boiled down and off my meds, is this: What's the core of your concept? Where is the heroism?

 

Excellent questions! You've touched upon the implied theme itself. In Revelations, it talks very little about Humans being the protagonists. In this campaign, Humanity will offer up heroic representatives and this will be the parallel story. There's the big picture with plot devices and so forth, then there's the human drama and reality. In essence, there is a lot going on in Revelations to defend against. Disasters, disease, famine, strife, war and all of the things they actually promote: corruption, destruction and fertile grounds in which villains can operate.

 

Imagine if New York City was on the brink of becoming a Baghdad or a Mogodishu sort of thing...

[Springald Jack]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

In Nomine has some nice breakdowns of angel types - organising them into choirs and hierarchies.

 

While I'm probably a bigger fan of In Nomine than most people there is some salt you should take this with.

 

1. In IN "ordinary" angels aren't demi-god level they're more street-level supers power level.

 

2. While the heirarchies and choirs are influenced by the traditional angelology it departs from it significantly.

 

Children of Fire is much closer to the traditional angelology though its full of its own novel bits as well.

 

The coolest use of Angels in an RPG for my money however is the Angelic Imperators in Nobilis. (there they are very very god-like)

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Modern day Angels?

 

The coolest use of Angels in an RPG for my money however is the Angelic Imperators in Nobilis. (there they are very very god-like)

 

Ah, Nobilis. The scandinavian supermodel/nobel prize laureate/10th Dan kung fu expert of RPG's. Yeah, she looks nice. You'll fantasize about her, read all about her, and if you're lucky you'll even touch her once. But you'll never actually PLAY her. (And anyone who claims to have is lying.)

 

[back in the day when I hung out on RPG.NET, there was a thread in which we described our respective roleplaying histories as a series of relationships with needy girlfriends. This was one of the descripitons of Nobilis; it had just come out, at the time.]