radioKAOS Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Or any other Adjustment power for that matter... p111/112 5ER So for a +2 Advantage you can affect "All powers of a given Effect" and for an additional +2 Advantage you can affect "All SFX Simultaneously" - now granted, that's going to cost you, but wow, talk about an instant NERF! So part of me wants clarification because you can also affect stats with the "# of powers of a given effect" Advantage... So can you then say that for the +4 total Advantage you would affect all stats and all powers simultaneously? Now that would mean that for a measly 100AP you could have a power that reduces everything on someone's character sheet by 4d6 character points, turning normals into dust and most supers into useless blobs of ink on a piece of paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... Or any other Adjustment power for that matter... p111/112 5ER So for a +2 Advantage you can affect "All powers of a given Effect" and for an additional +2 Advantage you can affect "All SFX Simultaneously" - now granted, that's going to cost you, but wow, talk about an instant NERF! So part of me wants clarification because you can also affect stats with the "# of powers of a given effect" Advantage... So can you then say that for the +4 total Advantage you would affect all stats and all powers simultaneously? Now that would mean that for a measly 100AP you could have a power that reduces everything on someone's character sheet by 4d6 character points, turning normals into dust and most supers into useless blobs of ink on a piece of paper. To drain everything simultaneously of 4d6 would cost 40x5=200 points, but you could supress everything simultaneously for 100 points to the 4d6 level. It is surpassingly nasty and whilst there is nothing against it I personally will rarely allow any power with more that +2 in advantages, and even those ones I tend to look at askance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... Or any other Adjustment power for that matter... p111/112 5ER So for a +2 Advantage you can affect "All powers of a given Effect" and for an additional +2 Advantage you can affect "All SFX Simultaneously" - now granted, that's going to cost you, but wow, talk about an instant NERF! So part of me wants clarification because you can also affect stats with the "# of powers of a given effect" Advantage... So can you then say that for the +4 total Advantage you would affect all stats and all powers simultaneously? Now that would mean that for a measly 100AP you could have a power that reduces everything on someone's character sheet by 4d6 character points, turning normals into dust and most supers into useless blobs of ink on a piece of paper. While I'm interested in any rules clarification, the above power would still affect only one person, and have to be targeted. It also costs 10 END per phase to maintain (althoough for 110, it can also be 0 END). Finally, it assumes no Power Defense, and I suspect in a game with 100 AP attacks, you might see Power Defense on most characters. Pick a sample of "official" characters and apply your 4d6 Suppress Everything attack. Then try the same experiment with: - a 20d6 EB - a 12d6 Flash that affects all sense groups - a 10d6 INT drain - a 6 1/2d6 ranged INT drain - 20d6 Mind Control (command: Don't Use Your Powers) - 20d6 Mental Illusions (Effect: You have no powers) I suspect you'll find these are generally not a lot less effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... Excellent point about comparing to other Powers of the same cost. For an easier comparison, look at a 1d6 Drain or a 2d6 Suppress. With the Drain, you'll eventually dust everyone and everything that doesn't have Power Defense, but it's probably not going to be of much use in combat doing an average of only 3 AP per hit. And with the Suppress, all you're doing is giving a general weakness to the target by about 7 AP, which is enough to make someone really UGLY and to a bit less damage, but not enough to even take away one point of CV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... I should clarify that this power is on a 750pt 'God' NPC whilst the players are 250pts with no power defense. Which makes it horribly effective. Strange how some people think it horribly effective and others think it not so much. I guess it is right in line with other 100 Active Point powers, though I thought it especially nasty due to the suppressing everything on the character sheet at once. It will even suppress Power Def, though it will have to overcome it first. But if some gets through, the next hit will affect more and should take more through... Assuming you've got the END to make it worthwhile of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... It will even suppress Power Def' date=' though it will have to overcome it first. But if some gets through, the next hit will affect more and should take more through... Assuming you've got the END to make it worthwhile of course.[/quote'] Give it 0 END and Continuous, plus lots and lots of Megascale, you can eventually take down everything in the universe Oh, and Selective, of course Weaken only your enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... But then if you loose Line of Sight with the universe, or something in the universe that you chose not to Suppress decides to bop you and Stuns you, the universe comes back. That's the thing about Suppress - it has to be maintained to be effective, and there are simple ways to interrupt it. Even Death by Suppress isn't permanent; if you Suppress a target's Body to the point of death he "dies" for all practical purposes, but if you shut off Suppress he springs back to "life." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... But then if you loose Line of Sight with the universe' date=' or something in the universe that you chose not to Suppress decides to bop you and Stuns you, the universe comes back. That's the thing about Suppress - it has to be maintained to be effective, and there are simple ways to interrupt it. Even Death by Suppress isn't permanent; if you Suppress a target's Body to the point of death he "dies" for all practical purposes, but if you shut off Suppress he springs back to "life."[/quote'] I think I've just statted out Entropy, then Think about it - the reversion condition is "cannot Suppress things anymore", and when everything is finally reduced to zero, it all springs back at once; the energy released in this moment is another Big Bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... I think I've just statted out Entropy, then Think about it - the reversion condition is "cannot Suppress things anymore", and when everything is finally reduced to zero, it all springs back at once; the energy released in this moment is another Big Bang. That concept is just so Robyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... Give it 0 END and Continuous, plus lots and lots of Megascale, you can eventually take down everything in the universe Oh, and Selective, of course Weaken only your enemies. This is just the Power I need for the last adventure for my Dark Guardians campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... So can you then say that for the +4 total Advantage you would affect all stats and all powers simultaneously? Yes. This is correct. Since there is a finite number of powers you can in practical terms cover them with a +2 or if pressed +2 1/2. This is one of the reasons why I'm a proponent of changing the default definition of Adjustment Powers to have a "Default Target SFX" instead of a "Default Target Power". But that is just me. [thread=31336]Adjustment Powers[/thread] - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... I think I've just statted out Entropy, then Think about it - the reversion condition is "cannot Suppress things anymore", and when everything is finally reduced to zero, it all springs back at once; the energy released in this moment is another Big Bang. I owe you rep. IF you can figure out how to DEFEAT that Universal Suppression that is Entropy, I'll owe you a lot more than rep. Lucius Alexander And a would-be anentropic palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... I owe you rep. IF you can figure out how to DEFEAT that Universal Suppression that is Entropy, I'll owe you a lot more than rep. Lucius Alexander And a would-be anentropic palindromedary Well technically the power would suppress any other power, including itself [assuming you didn't take personal immunity or Selective] so it is it's own destruction. I think my brain just started hurting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... Well technically the power would suppress any other power' date=' including itself [assuming you didn't take personal immunity or Selective'] so it is it's own destruction. This did occur to me. I was thinking that Inherent might handle it, since (with so much in Advantages already) the cost isn't really much more. Speaking of cost: to determine the exact strength of this power (Xd6), we have to look at Power Defense - specifically, what it has not been able to overcome. Now, who do we know that has survived the death of a universe? Galactus. It needs to be unable to overcome his Power Defense. I've also thought of just a couple more tweaks this would need to be realistic; the first is Extra Time (or perhaps Gradual Effect), because if the power drained even one pip (1 point) every Turn, we would all be feeling it, a lot more than we are. The other would, unfortunately, have to be a custom Advantage; how much Power Defense does a planet or star have? If a normal person (well, okay, an immortal) were Drained of an amount necessary to minutely affect a planet/star, wouldn't they feel it much more? The change I'm thinking of is: effect is multiplied by area covered, or rather, effect takes place upon each hex and this is cumulative for whatever is larger than a hex. This way, immortals are Drained for maybe an XP point or two every great once in a while (most people die before they directly experience entropy), and it blends right in with the normal variance in what XP they get; but planets and stars, over the same length of time, lose energy over their entire surface area (which can be different than the volume hexes, but at least it's astronomically consistent). I think my brain just started hurting. Overthinking. Take a break, do something else for a while, come back to it later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... IF you can figure out how to DEFEAT that Universal Suppression that is Entropy, I'll owe you a lot more than rep. Lucius Alexander And a would-be anentropic palindromedary The same build, only using Succor instead of Suppress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... What hurt was the concept that entropy would be it's own downfall. Therefore entropy would have to break down and eventually allow order to rebuild being that it makes everything weaker, even itself... equilibrium must be reached eventually, somehow, no? So then if it is affecting and being affected in equal parts, it really doesn't even exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... The same build' date=' only using Succor instead of Suppress?[/quote'] Sometimes the simplest answer is the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... IF you can figure out how to DEFEAT that Universal Suppression that is Entropy, I'll owe you a lot more than rep. Lucius Alexander And a would-be anentropic palindromedary Wouldn't 30 points of Power Defense complete negate it? At the 5d6 level anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... What hurt was the concept that entropy would be it's own downfall. That's already incorporated into the build, in one sense; the self-termination condition for the Suppress is when it can't Suppress anything anymore. Wouldn't 30 points of Power Defense complete negate it? At the 5d6 level anyway... But is it at the 5d6 level? I could build it as one pip, if I were just wanting to put together a villain's "accelerated entropy" machine for the lowest possible point cost. It could be higher, it could be lower. The best way to know, IMO, and as I explained above, is to look at the Power Defense for someone that has been able to survive the death of a universe before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... (most people die before they directly experience entropy) Lucius Alexander The palindromedary notes that this statement struck Lucius Alexander speechless. Probably because he doesn't know how to point out the blindingly obvious fact that a dying person IS directly experiencing entropy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: Suppress Nastiness.... a dying person IS directly experiencing entropy. If you're thinking of the shortening telomeres, I prefer to think of this as nature's built-in protection against the Gray Goo scenario. Besides, there's plenty of non-entropic effects which can "kill" someone; it's just that the new pattern they create doesn't happen to include human life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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