combat question

[steph]

ok if iv got csl with all hth (5 pts) let see iv got a +4 (20pts) and i got a flash attack ( flash powder no range-1/2) can i use my csl for my flash

stef

[Sir Ofeelya]

Re: combat question

 

ok if iv got csl with all hth (5 pts) let see iv got a +4 (20pts) and i got a flash attack ( flash powder no range-1/2) can i use my csl for my flash

stef

 

If the flash effect comes from something you have to throw at the target, then I would say no.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: combat question

 

from the FAQ

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/SKILLS.htm

 

Q: What types of Combat Skill Levels apply to an attack that has No Range, either inherently or because it has the No Range Limitation applied?

 

A: If an attack is defined as having No Range, wherever that definition comes from, then 5-point Combat Skill Levels with Ranged Combat don’t apply to it — 5-point CSLs with HTH Combat do.

[Silbeg]

Re: combat question

 

Yeah, I remember that one, H-M... however, throw a tasty common and/or dramatic sense statement from Steve, and you'd have it right!

 

I would look at it somewhat from SFX... if you have to touch the opponent to affect, then for sure HtH levels would apply. If not, it might be ranged, but this is something that needs to be determined by the player and the GM, with a default being HtH.

[Dust Raven]

Re: combat question

 

from the FAQ

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/SKILLS.htm

 

Q: What types of Combat Skill Levels apply to an attack that has No Range, either inherently or because it has the No Range Limitation applied?

 

A: If an attack is defined as having No Range, wherever that definition comes from, then 5-point Combat Skill Levels with Ranged Combat don’t apply to it — 5-point CSLs with HTH Combat do.

The FAQ is wrong.

 

Okay, I do it differently. If you can strike a target further away than an adjacent hex, it's always a ranged attack (with special consideration for attacks made using Stretching). If you can only attack an adjacent target, it's usually HTH. I mean that too. USUALLY. Sometimes it's ranged. For example, say you have a dinky little pistol or dart thrower with a range of 6ft? That's one hex. An adjacent hex. Does that make it HTH? No, it's a ranged attack with a very limited range (but build by necessity with the No Range Limitation).

[Dust Raven]

Re: combat question

 

Yeah, I remember that one, H-M... however, throw a tasty common and/or dramatic sense statement from Steve, and you'd have it right!

 

I would look at it somewhat from SFX... if you have to touch the opponent to affect, then for sure HtH levels would apply. If not, it might be ranged, but this is something that needs to be determined by the player and the GM, with a default being HtH.

 

 

Um... or what he said.

[Silbeg]

Re: combat question

 

Um... or what he said.

 

Great minds think alike, right? And some fingers are faster than others...

um... by 2.5 hours.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: combat question

 

The FAQ is wrong.

...For example, say you have a dinky little pistol or dart thrower with a range of 6ft? That's one hex. An adjacent hex. Does that make it HTH? No, it's a ranged attack with a very limited range (but build by necessity with the No Range Limitation).

 

Would you allow the target to use the Block manuever in either example?

[Silbeg]

Re: combat question

 

Would you allow the target to use the Block manuever in either example?

 

Hmm... that is a hard one, isn't it. This soulds like an SFX vs SFX issue.

 

However, for simplicity (and 99% of the use cases) I would say that if you are using Range Combat levels to hit with, you cannot Block, but must Missile Deflect (and if using HtH, you must Block, not Missile Deflect).

 

Now, common sense tells me that if a given player is taking advantage of that ruling, you could always adjudicate otherwise.

 

So, if you have GadgetMan, who has a suite of no-range attacks, some that use Range, some HtH. GM waits for the team brick to swing at The Artful Dodger, who uses a Martial Block on the attack. Then, GM uses his no-range "Enervation Gun" (drain vs. STUN), so that he can get theshot through (since he knows the Dodger can Missile Deflect as well). Next round, the Dodger uses his Deflection against the Blaster's energy beam, so GM uses his "Sleepy-Guantlet", which is a Drain vs. STUN that requires HtH.

 

Now, to start with, I would have allowed these two powers (though with a Gadget Pool he could certainly pull it off, sometimes). However, I may allow the Dodger to "block" with whichever power he has available...so that the uber-metagaming doesn't get in the way of play.

 

Make sense?

 

The other way you could go is to state that both Block and Missile Deflection apply.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: combat question

 

Hmm... that is a hard one, isn't it. This soulds like an SFX vs SFX issue.

 

However, for simplicity (and 99% of the use cases) I would say that if you are using Range Combat levels to hit with, you cannot Block, but must Missile Deflect (and if using HtH, you must Block, not Missile Deflect).

 

Now, common sense tells me that if a given player is taking advantage of that ruling, you could always adjudicate otherwise.

 

So, if you have GadgetMan, who has a suite of no-range attacks, some that use Range, some HtH. GM waits for the team brick to swing at The Artful Dodger, who uses a Martial Block on the attack. Then, GM uses his no-range "Enervation Gun" (drain vs. STUN), so that he can get theshot through (since he knows the Dodger can Missile Deflect as well). Next round, the Dodger uses his Deflection against the Blaster's energy beam, so GM uses his "Sleepy-Guantlet", which is a Drain vs. STUN that requires HtH.

 

Now, to start with, I would have allowed these two powers (though with a Gadget Pool he could certainly pull it off, sometimes). However, I may allow the Dodger to "block" with whichever power he has available...so that the uber-metagaming doesn't get in the way of play.

 

Make sense?

 

The other way you could go is to state that both Block and Missile Deflection apply.

 

This is one of those gray (grey?) areas that defined manuevers don't always handle well.

 

If the attacker is using a focus (derringer, soda-straw-blowgun, etc) it should be possible to deflect the *aim of the weapon via Block. Or should this be treated as a type of disarm?

 

* as opposed to the actual attack leaving the barrel which would be covered by Missle Deflection.

[1EyedJack]

Re: combat question

 

IMHO it sounds like a ranged attack with extremly short range. you should proably use only ranged combat levels to attack with it. Now if your flash was say hitting someone so hard the saw stars then you should apply hand to hand levels ( of course it might be linked but you get my point)

[Sean Waters]

Re: combat question

 

A flash defined as a poke in the eye is HtH ,and should be bought as NO RANGE and CAN BE BLOCKED (and probably other stuff too, but those are the ones pertinent to this discussion)

 

A flash defined as flash powder?

 

Well, I think the 'can it be blocked' is a good yardstick: if it can't it is probably still ranged even if that range is very short indeed.

 

I think the sfx should help to define and refine the power build, rather than determining how the power works, and I'd probably disagree witht he FAQ here too.

[Dust Raven]

Re: combat question

 

Would you allow the target to use the Block manuever in either example?

No, the dinky pistol and dart thrower are ranged attacks and cannot be Blocked, but may be Missile Deflected (per my interpretation). Depending on how close the attacker was to the target, I may allow a Block-like action depending on the genre and setting (but I'd do this for any ranged attack made on an adjacent target).