HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

ah, very true. i forgot about the doors, and that was just infection forms (as the combat forms only came later, and through the door you used to enter to begin with).

 

scratch the STR argument, then. that sounds good at 0.

 

everything else looks good, too, then, as far as i'm concerned.

 

(and yea, i try and forget a lot about 2, because its by far the weakest in the series thus far, so i pretty much look to 1 and 3 as the guiding lights, and 2 is just for certain bits that don't show up in the others. i don't think it did ANYTHING better than either of the other 2, except move the story along, which, i may add, it does have a good one of those)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Well, I can't imagine you can Mind Control a construct, can you? It's a machine, and therefore immune to MC. Actually, technically, the "combat forms" aren't even animated; they only move when piloted, so you'd need to MC the infection form, which again, is a construct. At least for our purposes. I've modeled the pop:

 

Infection Form Explosion: Energy Blast 3d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; Whenever Flood Infection Form contacts anything with force (1 BODY or 5 STUN) the pod explodes; +1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Explosion (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (45 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect only affects the recipient of the benefits of the Power; Infection Form Explodes Into Spores; -1 1/2), No Range (-1/2)

 

I also need to put in... the mind drain for the information that goes to create the Gravemind. To that end, though, I also gave them Telepathy:

 

Mental Absorbtion: Telepathy 10d6 (Human and Alien classes of minds), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense ([standard]; Boron's Syndrome, or Integrated AI; +1) (210 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Receive Only (See Text; -1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

 

This is the most expensive small creature I've ever built, can I say that?

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Well, I can't imagine you can Mind Control a construct, can you? It's a machine, and therefore immune to MC. Actually, technically, the "combat forms" aren't even animated; they only move when piloted, so you'd need to MC the infection form, which again, is a construct. At least for our purposes. I've modeled the pop:

 

 

 

This is the most expensive small creature I've ever built, can I say that?

 

Sure, I'll take your word for it. I haven't had to work through the Mind Control parts of the Big Book yet.

 

And you could, but then I'd have to ask you how many points a spoon costs...... (no one has actually told me yet....)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

There are some arguments I never got into... that was one of them. And you CAN MC a construct, it's simply a machine class of minds. I can give them mental defense, but then, no one in the Haloverse appears to have Psionics either, do they?

[Inu]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

There are some arguments I never got into... that was one of them. And you CAN MC a construct' date=' it's simply a [i']machine class of minds[/i]. I can give them mental defense, but then, no one in the Haloverse appears to have Psionics either, do they?

I can think of one being: the Gravemind.

 

But then, it shouldn't have any problem mind-controlling Flood.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

The Gravemind has Mindlink, and all Flood have Mindlink back to the Gravemind. Near the end of Halo 3, despite MT's request to slow it down (I made the Transform 3 points/phase) you see six or seven infection forms pile on a corpse and just take it over. I need to do combat forms.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

And, to discuss this further, HALOPEDIA has this to say about Transforms:

 

The Flood manage to get to Earth via an infected Covenant vessel and infect Voi. In Halo 3, if a Flood infection form lands on a Marine, Elite or Brute they will be mutated in a time period of roughly 7 seconds, as seen here: [1].They also can reanimate and infect the any of the bodies that are already dead and on the ground and if there is a weapon of any type near the body's arm, that combat form will use that weapon.

 

Now at the speed I currently have them, which is 3 pts/Phase, it will take '7 seconds,' but that's 7 seconds across 3 turns, which according to the text isn't correct. The question then becomes "what's going to make the most sense from a game perspective," and those are the design & philosophy decisions that Steve famously refuses to discuss.

 

However, I don't have the advantage of being able to say that. If I add one die, then the SER of 6 pts/phase will Transform a normal target into a Combat Form inside of four to six phases, or about two full turns (depending on if its human, Sangheili or Jiralhai).

 

The only thing I can't figure out is what happens 'in between,' as the Flood is clearly some sort of parasite, and I'm led to beleive from HALO 1 that they only need the smallest of spores, not even an infection form. However, clearly, an infection form seems to be required. However, the ability of one infection form to create a carrier, and then odds are good that the rest of the infection forms can make another 10 each, you can see where they spread exponentially fast.

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

personally, i would look at 3 as a series of "best case scenarios" in regards to flood infection. i think the fact that they keep speeding up the timeline for it is a little silly. so i think your current version is fine, really, and i will slow it down for my personal games to take much longer. in reality, there are a lot of biological changes that must occur to create a combat form for something else, and those would take tremendous time (i will be bumping it up to several hours at the least, for my personal games).

 

it really comes down to the fact that Halo and HERO are different types of games. what works for one does not work in another. to actually get it in 7 seconds it would have to transform across 7 segments, not neccessarily just the phases it actually gets, which doesn't really work out that well. i'd say leave it a 7 phases onn which it can act, and leave it be, personally.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

The only thing I can't figure out is what happens 'in between,' as the Flood is clearly some sort of parasite, and I'm led to beleive from HALO 1 that they only need the smallest of spores, not even an infection form. However, clearly, an infection form seems to be required. However, the ability of one infection form to create a carrier, and then odds are good that the rest of the infection forms can make another 10 each, you can see where they spread exponentially fast.

 

I think the spores are more of a slower, long term threat. Perhaps even treatable.

 

An Infection form is turbocharged.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Possibly, but I can't find anything on the spores themselves, which is annoying. I can't tell if this is revisionist history, if an 'infection form' is a spore, or what. Additionally, if a Combat Form gets blown to smithereens, if there's a torso left over, it can be turned into a Carrier Form. I think this is why the Flood work best as a Multiform; they can even Transform a Combat Form into a Carrier Form, which is... BANANAS.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

And upon further review, I made the following changes:

 

Penetrating Spike: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense (Boron's Syndrome, Force Fields, or Rigid Natural Armor; +1), Does BODY (+1) (67 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

I just modded the NND to include Force Fields and Rigid Armor (such as that on the Drones) as they can't seem to be assimilated (again, so says Halopedia).

 

Also, in response to something Sage said earlier, as to whether or not Sgt. Mjr. Avery Johnson has Boron's Syndrome, or if he's a SPARTAN II, there is no question from the canon that he in fact has Boron's Syndrome, caused by excessive exposure to Plasma technology. He's far too old to be a SPARTAN, and there's no evidence to suggest that he's a SPARTAN I/ORIGIN. Were he, he'd be far stronger & likely mentally unbalanced.

 

All SPARTAN IIs are roughly 35 years old at this point; they've been genetically modified, juiced, cybernetically enhanced, and then (basically) permanently strapped into a suit of MJOLNIR armor (currently on iteration VI as of HALO 3). Now where he makes the transition from Mk. IV to Mk. VI is beyond me, since he gets his "new" armor at the beginning of 2, and then crash-lands on Earth... but it's my understanding that he has a different suit of armor in this version. Then again, i may be wrong (which is known to happen).

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

i believe he had MK V in Halo 1, actually.

 

and as for Sgt. Johnson being a Spartan I, there is only one peice of substantial evidence, and it is from the graphic novel (the first one, not the new one) in which the background is something of an except of the conversation between 2 people looking for information on a AJ not having BS but maybe being a 1. There is also information about Dr. Halsey(sp?) and a REALLY high level security clearance. but what they find (records or whatever) indicate that AJ is in fact a 1. of course, they don't say who AJ is, or what BS or a 1 is, but its pretty obvious from the context, in mine and many others opinions.

 

there is a bit about it under Johnson's entry in Halopedia, but don't look if you haven't finished 3, as there are likely to be spoilers, where he is a major character and all.

 

actually, since i'm fairly sure you haven't finished it, its safer this way. this is the relevant data from Sgt. Johnson's page:

 

Johnson, a Spartan-I?

Main Article: Halo Graphic Novel Pg122

In the Halo Graphic Novel, on pg 122, reveals that he was involved in Project: ORION, the Spartan-I program.[1] This would make him over 60 years old, possibly even 70. This would mean that either Spartans can live longer without aging, or people generally live longer in the future. Another possibility is that Johnson has accumulated a total of several years spent frozen in cryo-chambers during missions requiring long periods of time traveling through Slipspace, thus keeping him physically younger than he actually is or he could be the child of a Spartan-I with the same name. Any or all of these conditions may be have contributed to Sgt. Johnson physically appearing younger than he actually is.

 

Also, his supposed "Boren's Syndrome" may be part of an ONI Section III black op to cover up the fact that he is possibly a SPARTAN-I. This is made possible on pg 122 in the Graphic Novel, most notably with the hard copy of the query from Dr. Catherine Halsey to the ONI server from the Gettysburg.

 

Johnson also whistled "Oly Oly Oxen Free" to a group of SPARTANs, which also contributes as a lead of him being a SPARTAN. However, only SPARTAN IIs and a select few outsiders know the all clear signal, which Deja told them when they were children.

 

 

there is also this page, which has a breakdown:

 

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_Graphic_Novel_Pg122

 

 

now, its cannonocity (is that even a word? is now!) is subject to debate, as it is never explicitly stated, although the source makes it somewhat obvious. there is also the factor of it being in the graphic novel, which is supposed to be cannon, at least on the level of the novels. so its placement is arguable. but i'll likely just do that to my home campaign world, as i like that better.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Hrm. Those are all extremely valid points; once i've beaten the game (good call, I'm playing online co-op and Shaun hasn't been able to get on to finish it with me) I'll go back and revisit the possibility. Generally through the text they discuss Boron's Syndrome, but again, that's generally. I'm a huge geek, but not so geeky that I'm going to argue who's "right," that's retarded.

 

I do concede you have sufficient evidence to give me pause for thought, though. Now if I can just design a combat form that I don't hate, I'll be happy.

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

i was just figuring that Boron's is kinda like augmentation (or at least both augmentation and Boron's change the fundamental biochemistry of a body)

 

just arguing semantics for no real reason.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

I don't know if it's important, but the Gravemind does have a strong level of Telepathy.... which apparently Cortana hacked into!!!

 

 

But the Flood definitely integrate with technology, given sufficient mass and time.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

How would you suggest running a Halo campaign? The first thing that leaps to mind is a game set after all the games....

 

During the games seems rather limited. Total war limits the possibilities beyond soldiers accomplishing missions, etc.

 

However, in the "post War" environment.... you can deal with Covenant/human intrigue, human intrigue once the great threat of the Covenant and Flood are dealt with.... the group could try to stop another interspecies conflict, prevent some human faction from splintering away... stop pirates from raiding one of the remaining rings to use the Flood as a weapon... all sorts of things.

 

Arms smuggling, rebuilding on broken worlds, Covenant loyalists hiding out, ready to strike.

 

Thoughts?

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

post war, you are exactly right, but during the war also has possiblilties, as many things go on behind the scenes during war (many of the post war things you talked about actually start during the war). also, since Halo is all about the military, i think it would be hard to find enough useful information on the rest of the world (i.e. non military) to do a lot that doesn't have a strong military focus.

 

also, don't discount the whole "soldiers accomplishing missions" idea, as MANY very good, exciting, and thoughtful movies have been made with this theme, 1st that comes to mind is Saving Private Ryan, but there are plenty more.

[CorPse]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

See also Band of Brother's, one of my favs...

[CorPse]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Dare I say it, the Halo novels, which you can blast through pretty quickly, also cover some interesting territory. I'd love to see a prequel to the Halo trilogy of games that deals with the events of the The Fall of Reach.

 

Playing a game that starts on Reach could provide you with lots o' interesting stuff.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. There are plenty of amazing movies, books, plots etc that focus specifically on soldiers during wartime.

 

I just felt it might be harder to run a campaign like that, since everything is so rigidly controlled. If it's not done right, it just turns into a strategy game, you know?

 

I would think that it might grow stale, being sent on one mission after another... unless you really managed to work something else in there. Something beyond "Blow up the ammo dump." Something that makes the players feel like they are more than just cogs.

 

Now, a mini-campaign of "war stories" is entirely feasible in my eyes. But I am not confident enough in my abilities yet to try to run a "pure" war campaign.

 

What are some story and plot ideas that you would suggest, pure war or post? I like the idea of at least working some of the sessions into the background of the already presented plot, i.e. the players could be fleeing from Reach right as the Covenant show up, etc... or they see Master Chief go running by in the distance... or at least somehow see his involvement. Still, I would work on keeping the war as a larger force that affecting everything in the background, but is not the primary focus directly. At least not the war as a WHOLE.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

post war' date=' you are exactly right, but during the war also has possiblilties, as many things go on behind the scenes during war (many of the post war things you talked about actually start during the war). also, since Halo is all about the military, i think it would be hard to find enough useful information on the rest of the world (i.e. non military) to do a lot that doesn't have a strong military focus.[/quote']

 

Perhaps, but there are certain things that have plenty of room for development. For instance, the entire Spartan program hints at what could be a terribly unjust government. Kidnapping children and putting them through that, just to create the perfect soldier.... to keep the fringes in line? The program was instituted long before the Covenant were even a prickling on the back of the neck, let alone a known threat. What will things be like in the post war environment? Is humanity united, and temporarily purged of it's baser motivations? Or will the same power mongers come to the fore once more?

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

along those lines, have you read the Halo Graphic Novel? it has a great story in it about New Membosa, right before the Covenant arrive in 2 that also hints and some of the things you are talking about. actually, the graphic novel has a couple of interesting stories that really kind of show whats going on around Chief during the games, and may give you some ideas. unfortunately, its also kinda hard to find. the new comics (Uprising, being released as a trade paperback in April) also have some good stuff of that nature in them. haven't read the novel books yet, and i'm not sure if i will, as i am picky about my books, but we'll see.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

I shall keep my eyes peeled.

 

Mostly, I'm trying to bait Thia back into the open. I do so enjoy his work.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Huh? What? Where? What shotgun?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

In terms of games you can easily run with the silly amount of material I've already built:

 

1) Don't confine yourself to the 'history' or the canon of the games themselves. There's no point in 'replaying' the role of Master Chief, Cortana and the rest. There WOULD be a lot of purpose in delving into other planets, what happened to the rest of the SPARTAN IIs, and so on.

 

2) Get the Forerunners involved. These people clearly built enough crazy sh-- to last a lifetime of gaming. It's very easy to imagine a scenario (as I did and had planned initially on doing for HEROcon but never finished) where you come across a derelict ship, of neither human nor covenant origin... but the covenant are already there. What lies in wait within? A horrible new secret that...

 

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

 

3) Pre-War development. The party plays a group of soldiers, involved in the first conflicts with the Covenant. They survive only to be elevated to SPARTAN I -- and rejoin the battle anew. You can also use this as a launching point for human-on-human struggle. There are ALWAYS idiots who buy into some psycho's philosophy. This includes Human Covenant Sympathizers.

 

4) Who says the Covenant want to wipe us out? Maybe we taste good with a little mayo and a dash of oil & vinegar. Extend the occupation.

 

FYI, if your players are devotees, remind them: "Hey, the fiction in the books does not match the fiction in the games, does not match the fiction in the graphic novel. I'm not trying to 're-run HALO,' because you can play that whenever you want. This is a new fiction based on events, characters, and all this BAD ASS EQUIPMENT THIA BUILT from the HALOverse."