HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

14d6, average damage roll, maxed out knockback roll, would still leave you with 2 hexes of knock back. 7-8 on average. with double knockback, well, it gets to be quite crazy. killed a hunter with one and sent HIM FLYING through the air!! it was awesome. but i think its a knockback thing, not a TK thing.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Okay. Here we go. The ultimate question still lingers.

 

Is it Transform? Multiform? Well... cost is no issue. I'll just do both. Gimme another minute.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Okay. This is my (genuinely) first crack at the Flood Infection Form; it's... complicated, but I think I captured the 'essence' of what happens when the Flood attacks. Please review it and let me know what y'all think.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Well done

 

 

Thank you

 

 

QM

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Uh... you're welcome, but it doesn't show anyone viewed it. If I could get some feedback, that would be great.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Strange I have downloaded it twice now.

 

 

Weird

 

 

QM

[CorPse]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Sadly, I just don't have the time for H3 yet... so I will be of little help assessing the builds... but then I haven't been much (or is that any) help so far!

 

Look forward to checking in once I've had a chance to play.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

It's a flood form, CorPse. I'm pretty certain you can look it over and give me some feedback. You've only fought them through two games now.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

It looks REALLY good, Thia.

 

I'd put AP on the Penetrating Spike, since it punches through Elite and Marine armor, and even the gets into the Master Chief (I believe Cortana overloaded his shields to kill the sucker before it managed to really get a hold on him).

 

5 Body is good, and is actually the absolute max I'd give an Infection Form. I'd be tempted to give them just 1. Their bodies appear to be mostly empty air. Easily crushed "even" by Marines squeezing their hands. I've never seen an Infection Form survive ANY sort of blow.

 

I'm not familiar with Transform, so how long will it generally take as built? I know in the last game they made it dramatically quick, but I'd slow it down some to hold more with the previous two games and books. After all, the Flood would gather corpses into piles to process them later.

 

I kind of view them as more of a SPD 3, but that could just be personal taste.

 

How are you going to deal with Mind Control or PRE attacks? They really are... well, not quite mindless. More like living machines, jacked into the Gravemind (or instinct until a Gravemind forms).

 

I'd consider selling back the 1 ED, for cost and holding true to the material.

 

You gave them Combat Piloting, but no Weapon Familiarities? Why?

 

Life Support: do they need to sleep?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

It looks REALLY good' date=' Thia.[/quote']

 

Thanks! Feedback is my friend, so we'll start with "THANK YOU! I needed another opinion."

 

I'd put AP on the Penetrating Spike' date=' since it punches through Elite and Marine armor, and even the gets into the Master Chief (I believe Cortana overloaded his shields to kill the sucker before it managed to really get a hold on him).[/quote']

 

No need; this is handled by NND/Does BODY. You can't put Penetrating/AP on an NND attack -- nothing stops it, except Boron's Syndrom. I made it a super spike, basically. Yes, Cortana blitzed it with a swift rewire and electric jolt.

 

5 Body is good' date=' and is actually the absolute max I'd give an Infection Form. I'd be tempted to give them just 1. Their bodies appear to be mostly empty air. Easily crushed "even" by Marines squeezing their hands. I've never seen an Infection Form survive ANY sort of blow.[/quote']

 

I was thinking something similar; I gave it the BODY of a house cat, which in hindsight is too much. I'll drop it to 2 BODY.

 

I'm not familiar with Transform' date=' so how long will it generally take as built? I know in the last game they made it dramatically quick, but I'd slow it down some to hold more with the previous two games and books. After all, the Flood would gather corpses into piles to process them later.[/quote']

 

I made it... what, 1d6 (I'm getting ready to crash, so I'm going from memory) but I'm going to say that it'll take 2 Turns (at 3 points/phase) to get double BODY of the target. If it gets slowed down (and mind you, the book described it as quite quick) it can be dialed down to 1 point, and then it'll be 20 phases (on average), which is about a minute. It can be slowed down further via Gradual Effect or Delayed Effect as well. How fast do YOU think it should go, knowing that no one has Power Defense?

 

I kind of view them as more of a SPD 3' date=' but that could just be personal taste.[/quote']

 

I always got terrified seeing them hard charge, but SPD 3 is just as reasonable. I can make that change.

 

How are you going to deal with Mind Control or PRE attacks? They really are... well' date=' not quite mindless. More like living machines, jacked into the Gravemind (or instinct until a Gravemind forms).[/quote']

 

I don't really see the infection form as having to worry about PRE attacks; and the 'mind control' appears to really be a special effect of consuming the host, since it's established short of Jekins & Keyes, the bodies they pilot are dead. Deader'n'Elvis.

 

I'd consider selling back the 1 ED' date=' for cost and holding true to the material.[/quote']

 

I gave them one ED?

 

You gave them Combat Piloting' date=' but no Weapon Familiarities? Why?[/quote']

 

Because I was thinking of their Multiform; 'combat piloting' was meant to apply to the first idea I had, making Flood Combat Forms 'vehicles,' but they're going to be multiforms. I'll delete it. The Combat Form will be where the weapon familiarities lie.

 

Life Support: do they need to sleep?

 

Not that I know of; did I forget that one? This is all fantastic feedback, thank you MT! r3ppz0rz 2 j00!...

 

You must spread teh r3ppz0rz around before giving it to MT again. Crapicus.

[Inu]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

II'd put AP on the Penetrating Spike' date=' since it punches through Elite and Marine armor, and even the gets into the Master Chief (I believe Cortana overloaded his shields to kill the sucker before it managed to really get a hold on him).[/quote']Huh, is that how it works? I just figured they couldn't handle shields... do they blow up when they hit Elite shields? I don't seem to remember. They certainly blow up on the Arbiter's shields.

 

How are you going to deal with Mind Control or PRE attacks? They really are... well, not quite mindless. More like living machines, jacked into the Gravemind (or instinct until a Gravemind forms).

They seem to keep coming no matter what... depending on what you're wielding. In Halo 3, in the final run out of the Flood ship near the end, I noticed that when I had the energy sword out, they ran away from me. I could actually herd them around.

 

Life Support: do they need to sleep?

Flood forms probably do need to rest. As for infection forms... my personal theory is that they simply wouldn't survive long outside of their carrier form. As you say, they're more or less made of air. I can't see them having a long life cycle, possibly not long enough to get around to sleeping!

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

more nitpicky than anything else. what about the theory that Johnson doesn't have Boron's disease, and that he's actually a SPARTAN I (which i find far more believable). also, it seems that 117 is immune to flood, so maybe it should be augmented creatures as the immunity.

 

and what about the fact that energy shields pop them? and the fact that they exlplode their buddies when they pop (if they are close), which is also what lowers your shields when they jump on you (since running into grunts does not, trust me).

 

i'd give them some sort of weird suceptibility to energy shield radiation, and a small explosion 1d6 killing attack, triggered, only upon death.

 

oh, and i think 2 BODY is still to high. they explode with very little damage, and a 1d6 bullet still may not be enough to get them to the -2 BODY they need to actually die. 1 BODY would solve that, by cutting the threshold from 4 damage to 2, so that even a 1/2d6 attack had a chance of popping it.

 

oh, and i'd sell the STR down to -20 or so, as i can't imagine them ever being able to lift a dagger, for instance (and i think a dagger is a -25 STR to lift so it may be able to go lower)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Well, it's really more like a 'suicide leap' wherein said leap does enough damage to pop it; because they're "hive minded" they have no sense of individual survival, so flinging themselves to pop on a shield (for a whole 1 normal damage) will eventually wear it down, which I think is their objective, although I can make it a 2d6 EB, No Range, Side Effect: You freaking die, Side Effect occurs whenever power is used, side effect occurs automatically, side effect only affects user of power.

[Inu]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Well' date=' it's really more like a 'suicide leap' wherein said leap does enough damage to pop it; because they're "hive minded" they have no sense of individual survival, so flinging themselves to pop on a shield (for a whole 1 normal damage) will eventually wear it down, which I think is their objective, although I can make it a 2d6 EB, No Range, Side Effect: You freaking die, Side Effect occurs whenever power is used, side effect occurs automatically, side effect only affects user of power.[/quote']

Except they don't normally die when they attack people. In Halo 1, I remember seeing them attack un-shielded targets (such as the Marines) repeatedly, without dying. In Halo 3, they seem to burrow in or something like that -- they certainly don't just 'pop'.

 

And the shielded target takes some fairly serious damage, too. ^_-

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Ah, but the suicide leap is modeled as a POWER, you see? So you don't have the issue of whether they die "automatically" or not with that ability; they suicide leap, the croak. The rest of it I'm fixing shortly.

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

the main point of my post though, was that they EXPLODE when they die, taking nearby friends with them. like you fire a single shot into a large mass of them, and they all die, because the explosions create a chain reaction. and i don't see that (iconic, imho) image represented in this build. thus the tiny explosion, which would kill them (if they had very little BODY, like 1) but still not be much against a shield (like in 1 and 2, they are a little stronger in 3, but luckily not as hell bent on infecting Chief)

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Side Effect or Trigger hmmm...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

If I make it a 2d6 EB AOE, that should take out the surrounding units -- however, they don't DETONATE... which is weird. I've never seen a whole group just explode. You can't take out a whole platoon, to my recollection (and I'll be playing later tonight, so I'll pay special attention to this).

[Inu]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

If I make it a 2d6 EB AOE' date=' that should take out the surrounding units -- however, they don't DETONATE... which is weird. I've never seen a whole group just explode. You can't take out a whole platoon, to my recollection (and I'll be playing later tonight, so I'll pay special attention to this).[/quote']

It's harder in Halo 2 and 3, because you don't get the same swarms that you did in 1. I do definitely remember killin 20+ infectio forms with a few bullets, in the first game. 2, there just aren't enough at a time (but they do more damage). 3, they dodge aroudn too much, and it seems that the blast radius has been reduced.

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

yea, i used to (in 1) carry a shotgun and a pistol. fire off a pistol shot or 2, and BAM a whole swarm would be annihilated. also used to do this thing (in 1 and 2) where i would time it just right and melee a flying infection form, blowing up some of his buddies in the process.

 

and to see it in action in 3, there is a really good place near the end, right before the big finale, when HORDES of the buggers are moving through the hallway towards you. a few shots into it, and they all go pop. and that was on heroic difficulty (working on legendary now, but only on the 2nd mission).

 

i'll see if i can find some screencaps online.

 

and i'm talking infection forms vs infection forms, not other flood types, just for the records. i imagine it does do some damage to other types (as it does do some to your shields, etc) but it should be neglegible at best for those types.

 

again, Halo 1 is the best place to see it though, especially in the first Flood level (343 Guilty Spark) when they start pounding down the doors (after the cutscene flashback). fire off a shot or 2 as they swarm out the doors, and your see exactly what i mean.

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

all the following are from Halopedia

 

Infection Forms are extremely fragile, and easy to defeat by themselves, even exploding when near loud noises. Unfortunately, they are rarely encountered alone.

 

The easiest weapons to use to destroy them are Assault Rifles, Shotguns, SMGs, and Grenades, as they usually move in swarms and one burst from these weapons can eliminate most of the swarm. If the victim does not have a shield engaged, the forms will latch on to them and attempt infection.

 

In Halo 1, Infection forms appear in greater numbers, but chain react when destroyed, popping others nearby. This factor was removed in Halo 2 and their numbers were lowered to compensate. In Halo 3, they once more chain react and appear in large numbers.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

Okay, so we'll go with that then, and I did notice it while playing last night. So to that end, the following adjustments will be made:

 

BODY 1

 

POP: AOE 2d6 EB (No Range), Trigger: When infection form takes 1 damage BODY or 1 STUN, or when making a Sacrifice Attack (see text).

 

How does that work?

[eternal_sage]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

makes me happy! how will that do against a spartan's shields...

 

or have you built that yet?

 

on average across the games (on normal difficulty), i'd say a popping infection form and a plasma pistol (uncharged) are about the same. but thats completely from memory.

[Inu]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

makes me happy! how will that do against a spartan's shields...

 

or have you built that yet?

 

on average across the games (on normal difficulty), i'd say a popping infection form and a plasma pistol (uncharged) are about the same. but thats completely from memory.

Well, in 2 and 3 that's more or less true, but 2 radically increased the damage from infection forms. In 1, they did a tiny sliver of damage. In 2, even on easy, four or five was enough to take shields down.

[Manic Typist]

Re: HERO: Combat Evolved [Equipment Posts & Comments]

 

 

 

I made it... what, 1d6 (I'm getting ready to crash, so I'm going from memory) but I'm going to say that it'll take 2 Turns (at 3 points/phase) to get double BODY of the target. If it gets slowed down (and mind you, the book described it as quite quick) it can be dialed down to 1 point, and then it'll be 20 phases (on average), which is about a minute. It can be slowed down further via Gradual Effect or Delayed Effect as well. How fast do YOU think it should go, knowing that no one has Power Defense?

 

 

 

I don't really see the infection form as having to worry about PRE attacks; and the 'mind control' appears to really be a special effect of consuming the host, since it's established short of Jekins & Keyes, the bodies they pilot are dead. Deader'n'Elvis.

 

 

 

 

 

That speed of infection feels very reasonable to me.

 

 

I meant someone trying to use Mind Control AGAINST the Infections, or even a Combat Form?

 

 

 

As for the shields bit- My interpretation is that pretty soon anyone who uses shields (i.e. the Master Chief and the Covenant) that the shields can be used to "spark" the Infection forms. I interpret these deaths as the shields deliberately charging against the attack of an Infection form, which kills the Flood at the cost of some protection.

 

 

Also, the Infection forms can survive for a very long time. The one that took over Johnson was only able to partly control him because it had become damaged during its long time spent in storage on Halo. I would think that they have No Need to Sleep, and an Extended Lifespan (perhaps hibernation?)

 

I disagree on the STR. I think they have at least the STR to manipulate small, simple objects like a knife. In group, they are capable of knocking down armored doors (when we first see them in Halo 1).