What is the best way to build this?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

= Our hero's Colt Peacemaker

 

= Normal bullet

= Silver bullet

= Armor Piercing bullet

 

And here is a possible 'random' distrubion of the bullet types among the 8 Clips of 6 shots:

:straight: :straight:

 

Just alternate a 'Silver bullet' for a 'Normal bullet' every other clip.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

There are other rules issues with using Variable Advantage in this case. Whatever level of VA is purchased must be assigned in some way each time the attack is used. What do you assign the (+1/2) to when not using AP?

Hence why you use a Naked Advantage... Because IIRC thats the only way to pull off A VA to simulate differing ammo types without running into that kinda dumb "You must use all advantages from your VA" rule. Worst case scenario... use 2 levels of Difficult to Dispel. Why? Uh... who knows.... they're really, exceptionally real bullets?

 

Dumb? Yep. But so is the "you HAVE to use your advantages" rule, IMHO.

 

Drop the VSFX if you allow different SFX based on ammo (there is only 1 SFX per suite of advantages, so I'd say you could get away without the VSFX). Add VSFX as an option among your V. Advantages for reeeallly non-bullety SFX (Holy water Ice bullets, frex).

Heck, saving the extra +1/4 from the VSFX allows you to remove the "limited List" modifier from the VA... I'd still limit the options, but this allow the list to ba as large as imagination allows.

 

 

The Trigger approach is appealing if total control of which type of bullet is fired in what order were an issue (as it would be with the clip of a semi-auto) but I don't believe Gideon stated that this was that important since the firing order of bullets in a Revolver can easily be changed.

 

At this point I am not as concerned with "stating the absolutely perfect description" of the limitations used to represent this construct as I am with getting a fair cost for its utility. Note, my latest build addresses ALL the percieved rules hurdles AND is even CHEAPER than the 'list' method I proposed earlier even though the attack value for all bullets were increased to 2d6. I think a reasonable GM should allow the build to work as stated "in English" per Gideons first post to this thread via either the 'list' or 'naked' methods for something between 24-30 points.

 

Actually, if you check what I said carefully, nowhere did I imply that the "first" triggered attack has to be the first fired...just that subsequent shots in the same phase (exploiting the whole 0 phase action from a trigger thing), only that after that first triggered attack is made the shots must follow the list. It could also be done with Delayed Effect (possibly more corretly, in fact... build it with a 6 "Slot" limit)... either way, the ONLY rules legal way I can see to accomplish the goal (of loading seperate ammo types in a particular order and being able to hit with more than one of them in the same phase, choosing which ammo you shoot, without using the MPA rules) involves using an advantage that allows the attacks to be set up in advance

Delayed Effect or Trigger. In both cases, there will still be a 1/2 phase "set up time" for any attack, but conveinetly enough that's how long the rules say it takes to load a single round by hand, so it works.

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

At this point I am not as concerned with "stating the absolutely perfect description" of the limitations used to represent this construct as I am with getting a fair cost for its utility. Note, my latest build addresses ALL the percieved rules hurdles AND is even CHEAPER than the 'list' method I proposed earlier even though the attack value for all bullets were increased to 2d6. I think a reasonable GM should allow the build to work as stated "in English" per Gideons first post to this thread via either the 'list' or 'naked' methods for something between 24-30 points.

 

So, how exactly does your method work?

 

Can he use AP and Silver at the same time? I didn't see in your method a way to prevent that.

 

Can he fire 3 APs per clip, two, or just one? One, two or three Silver?

 

Without you being explicit, it's hard to actually know what you are proposing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

So, how exactly does your method work?

 

Can he use AP and Silver at the same time? I didn't see in your method a way to prevent that.

 

Can he fire 3 APs per clip, two, or just one? One, two or three Silver?

 

Without you being explicit, it's hard to actually know what you are proposing.

 

 

Your missing the point of my build.

 

It pays for the ability to have AP and Silver bullets as a Naked Advantage. It then takes a limitation only on the Naked Advantage. You could call them Schrödinger's Bullets for all I care. The exact wording of the limitation to make them fit Gideon's original request is just a minor detail and ultimately only matters between Gideon and his GM. When bullets are loaded into a clip, their "type" becomes fixed. Until that time all bullets are potentiallyany of the three.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Alright, people have been asking why my GM is such a stickler for the rules, so that they understand where I am coming from.

 

My GM (who, I am sorry but will remain unnamed) writes for the company.

 

Anything in his game may at some point see print, and for that reason alone, he is unwilling to fudge rules. Especially when it comes to character construction.

 

He doesn't have a problem with MPA. The problem is that MPA states the following things:

 

1) Only 1 power per framework can be used as pat of an MPA.

which means I can't use MPA if the gun is a multi-power.

 

2) All of the attacks MUST all be fired at the same target.

which is not the effect I am going for.

 

Also Linking things should be fine. People have had liked powers before in the game, so I don't know why I wouldn't be able to also.

 

Now I know he isn't a huge fan of Naked Power Advantages, but as far as I have seen nobody in the game has ever used the rule. So I think (if nothing else) he would allow me to have it to see how well it works.

 

The VA and VSFX have a problem though. Both say that (unless the GM says otherwise) you can only change use them once in a phase. And unfortunately I expect him to enforce that rule.

 

Also, I think I need to explain the In Game effect I am going for a little better. People are misinterpreting what I am looking for slightly.

 

Gideon jsut managed to free himself from captors, and find his gun. He hunkers down behind some cover and checks his ammo. He has 1 AP bullet, 2 lead bullets and 1 silver bullet. The 2 lead bullets are already in loaded in the barrel.

 

He makes his way throught the secret villian complex and finds the weapons locker. There are 4 agents guarding the room. He has a clear shot on alll of them, and he wants to take them down as fast as he can. I make his Fast Draw roll so he can load the gun as a half phase action. He ow has 1 AP bullet, 1 silver bullets and 2 lead bullets in the gun.

 

He shoots. He has rapid attack, so even thought I can't use it because of the differet ammo types: rapid fire is only a half phase action. Four targets, one bullet each. First bullet in the chamber is AP, the second and third are both lead, and the fourth is silver.

 

Surprise, as well as skill help him and he hits all four targets, and they go down. Gideon now has access to their weapon locker and the rest of his ammo.

 

Its not a matter of me wanting to be able to shoot 3, 4, or 5 targets in every round of combat all the time. AND its not that I want to be able to use all the different kinds of bullets the character has on him all the time.

 

Its simply a matter of I want to be able to do it if I need to.

 

AND its really ment to simulate: I am using what I have on me. NOT I have special bullets that I can change the atomic structure of when I shoot them.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Im curious, is this for a Heroic or Superheroic campaign?

 

I'm guessing the subatomic particle comment is in response to my last build.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Well, I'll drop from the curioser and curioser build contest then.

 

This just SCREAMS "Common and Dramtic sense" moment, to me, but I guess I've been playing Heroic-rules games to long.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hyper-Man: It is a superhero game. And while I think the idea of sub-atomic molecularly alterable bullets is absolutely kick-@$$ cool, it simply isn't what I'm trying to do.

 

AmadanNaBriona: You are right, and I agree with you. But I want to play in this game (believe me I WANT to play in this game), and its a ton of fun. The example I gave you isn't necicarily indicitive of the game I play in, it was just an easy way to explain what I am looking for.

 

I've learned over the years that in a game with a good GM who is also strict with the rules that sometimes a "common sense" or "dramatic sense" moment simply needs to be handled in a different way.

 

In the game I play, if the situation I used as my last example were to actually come up, and I hadn't come up with a RAW solution for this problem, I wouldn't even have Gideon open fire. Instead I would pull a Mission Impossible move and sneak into the weapon locker through the ventilation ducts.

 

Either way, AmadanNaBriona thank you for trying to help.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Even though this is supers I strongly recommend taking a look at the sidebar on page 204 of Dark Champions which mentions nearly the exact situation you are in.

 

Using a multipower whose reserve is high enough to cover simultaneous use of all 3 slots is enough to get past any perceived MPA issue since a) you're not attempting to use MPA and you are only attempting to used a ranged form of sweep with different parts of the same weapon (no different than using both ends of a Pole-arm in the same phase). You might consider adjusting the cost of each bullet type to be equal in cost based on both DC and Advantages instead of your original assymetrical builds. Normal bullets = 2d6 and AP = 2d6-1 (flipping the way you originally posted them). Silver bullets would then do damage identical to Normal bullets (2d6) and incur no additional cost other than maybe the requirement for the Wealth perk and/or a knowledge skill to physically produce the rounds. Everything else is really covered by the 'Real Weapon' Limitation. Yes, this is going against my earlier argument vs. Linked but in this case it means the GM has final say on how accurate the character is at tracking what type of bullet is in which chamber of the barrel (or speed loader) at any one time.

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Silver/Lead

 

There is no mechanical difference between these bullets: it would cost you no more points to have them all silver, and there is no particular sfx advantage to a lead bullet, so I'd call the lead/silver thing a wash and, whilst I appreciate HyperMan's suggestion of variable sfx, it seems to me, given the lack of advantage for lead, that you shouldn't be paying for, in effect, NOT always firing silver. Of course if this is a game where you are charging the players to buy bullets there is an in-game effect, but then why are they buying guns with points?

 

Answer me this one: how long do you want it to take to load:

 

a. ONE bullet, and

b. SIX bullets (I'm assuming that you'll be using a speed loader?)

 

What I'm thinking, and I'm sure this discussion has been there already is this:

 

BULLETS 1 1/2d6 RKA (NOT 2d6-1 in my game, you munchkin chipmunk ) 25 points

 

That covers everything: all bullets, at their basic damage capability. I really don't understand why you want your armour piercing bullets to do more basic damage, if anything they should be doing less, so I'm ignoring that.

 

ARMOUR PIERCING Naked AP advantage on 25 points (12 points)

 

So now you can fire bullets at whatever rate you can use a normal power and add in the naked advantage on any you want to, and we assume that any that you want to call silver are.

 

That's 37 points, before any limtiations at all.

 

Now you want 60 charges in clips of 6, that is +0.

 

Take 12 charges for the AP element, that is -1/4

 

The whole thing takes OAF -1

Real weapon, if you really, really must, but I really don't like it for a game where you are paying points for weapons -1/4

Beam -1/4, and

+0 you can pre-load clips with any combination of silver and lead bullets, subject to a maximum of 24 silver bullets, and the silver ones cannot be made AP. You can swap out a single bullet as if swapping out a clip. Once the clip is loaded it has to be fired int he pre-determined order.

 

SO:

 

1 1/2d6 RKA with -1 1/2 limitations = 10 points

AP naked advantage with -1 3/4 limitations = 4 points

 

Whole thing is 14 points, simple build and it does everything you want.

 

(Unless someone is about to tell me otherwise...)

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hyper-man: Cool. I don't have a copy of Dark Champions, so I know nothing from the book. I will take a look as soon as I can.

 

Silver/Lead

 

There is no mechanical difference between these bullets: it would cost you no more points to have them all silver, and there is no particular sfx advantage to a lead bullet, so I'd call the lead/silver thing a wash and, whilst I appreciate HyperMan's suggestion of variable sfx, it seems to me, given the lack of advantage for lead, that you shouldn't be paying for, in effect, NOT always firing silver. Of course if this is a game where you are charging the players to buy bullets there is an in-game effect, but then why are they buying guns with points?

 

Ok, again I may not have been clear enough. I picked lead, silver and Armor Piercing as examples. The actual list of bullets I plan on having for the character includes the following:

 

Lead

Silver

Cold Iron

Armor Piercing

Explosive

Holy

Rubber (or some other kind that would equate to an EB)

 

I also want to have the ability to create new kinds of bullets in the future.

Answer me this one: how long do you want it to take to load:

 

a. ONE bullet, and

b. SIX bullets (I'm assuming that you'll be using a speed loader?)

 

I think loading no more than ONE bullet could be a half phase action that could be reduced to a zero phase action with a fast draw roll.

 

Any more than 1 bullet, needs to be a full phase that can be reduced to a half phase with fast draw.

 

I may go so far as saying that it takes the same amount of time to reload 1 as it does to reload 6, but I'm not sure.

 

What I'm thinking, and I'm sure this discussion has been there already is this:

 

BULLETS 1 1/2d6 RKA (NOT 2d6-1 in my game, you munchkin chipmunk ) 25 points

 

If you want to call anyone the "Munchkin Chipmunk" on this it should be Steven. I took the description of the gun straight out of the 5ER book page 485.

 

That covers everything: all bullets, at their basic damage capability. I really don't understand why you want your armour piercing bullets to do more basic damage, if anything they should be doing less, so I'm ignoring that.

 

You should ignore it, its a typo.

 

ARMOUR PIERCING Naked AP advantage on 25 points (12 points)

 

So now you can fire bullets at whatever rate you can use a normal power and add in the naked advantage on any you want to, and we assume that any that you want to call silver are.

 

That's 37 points, before any limtiations at all.

 

Now you want 60 charges in clips of 6, that is +0.

 

Take 12 charges for the AP element, that is -1/4

 

I think the naked advantage part works, and it works well. But how do I work in additional types of bullets like I mentioned previously?

 

The whole thing takes OAF -1

Real weapon, if you really, really must, but I really don't like it for a game where you are paying points for weapons -1/4

Beam -1/4, and

+0 you can pre-load clips with any combination of silver and lead bullets, subject to a maximum of 24 silver bullets, and the silver ones cannot be made AP. You can swap out a single bullet as if swapping out a clip. Once the clip is loaded it has to be fired int he pre-determined order.

 

SO:

 

1 1/2d6 RKA with -1 1/2 limitations = 10 points

AP naked advantage with -1 3/4 limitations = 4 points

 

Whole thing is 14 points, simple build and it does everything you want.

 

(Unless someone is about to tell me otherwise...)

 

I was about to ask: "why 24 silver bullets?" until I read that again, and realized I understood what you were talking about.

 

I don't like Real Weapon either. I am going to role play the gun as having the limitation either way, but I'm only going to take the points for it if its the only possilbe way for me to aford the power. The powers should be quite cheap enough without it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Lead

Silver

Cold Iron

Armor Piercing

Explosive

Holy

Rubber (or some other kind that would equate to an EB)

 

I think the naked advantage part works, and it works well. But how do I work in additional types of bullets like I mentioned previously?

 

Additional naked advantages.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hugo Neilson: That is perfectly logical and makes sense. However, if you read Sean Waters he was saying that the basic special effect of the gun should be that if fires either Lead or Silver bullets and that VSFX shouldn't need to be applied.

 

If VSFX needs to be applied then the character can only fire up to 2 differnt kinds of "normal" bullets (bullets which only have a differnt SFX, not a different effect) in 1 phase.

 

Otherwise I think i need to buy each "normal" type of bullet as a seperate power, as well as things like the "Rubber bullet" because that is a different kind of attack (EB VS RKA). I would then buy effects like Explosive or Armor Piercing as Naked Advantages, but I think I would need to put some kind of Lockout variant on them stating that they both can't effect the same attack.

 

What do people think?

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Sorry aboutt he chipmunk thing: one of my pet hates is the choice of damage values. i think in Dark Champions it does actually differentiate in price.

 

Cold Iron and Holy may or may not be built in a mechanically different way but I assume that they just spark off particular opponent's vulnerabilities. If that is the case then whether I'd make you pay for them is a matter of how often it comes up.

 

At worst you need to buy a variable sfx naked advantage.

 

Now the naked advantage for 12 AP shots was only 4 points, as will be every other naked advantage at +1/2

 

Build in 'Lockout' and to all the naked advantages, though, because of rounding, the cost is still 4 points, and you have:

 

Basic gun with 64 shots at 1 1/2d6 (D) 10 points

 

Variable sfx (various materials - limited group - 1/4) 24 charges 4 points

AP 12 charges 4 points

Explosive 12 charges 4 points

Invisible power effects 12 charges 4 points

Indirect 12 charges 4 points

 

Total cost 30 points.

 

Now rubber bullet is a problem, as it doesn't use the same mechanic - either it uses EB or a 'reduced penetration' or 'No BODY damage' limitation, but as being able to decide to shoot a mercy round IS an advantage I'd build it as a custom one : Mercy Round +1/2 (As 1.5x KB but only does a max of 1 point of damage directly (although uses full amount for calculating KB)

 

How's that?

[SteveZilla]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hence why you use a Naked Advantage... Because IIRC thats the only way to pull off A VA to simulate differing ammo types without running into that kinda dumb "You must use all advantages from your VA" rule. Worst case scenario... use 2 levels of Difficult to Dispel. Why? Uh... who knows.... they're really, exceptionally real bullets?

 

Dumb? Yep. But so is the "you HAVE to use your advantages" rule, IMHO.

 

Why not "empty" the VA by setting it *to* VA, recursively?

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

....actually, come to think about it:

 

GUN: 1 1/2d6 RKA with 60 charges in clips of 6: 10 points (see post above for cost breakdown)

 

AND

 

Variable advantage (of +1/2) +1 -1/4 for limited group (on 25 points), 30 charges (+1/4) total 25 points

 

Limitations (OAF, Real, Beam) -1 1/2, total 10 points

 

Chose from:

Explosion

AP

1.5x KB

Variable sfx

 

So you have a gun that can fire 1 1/2d6 RKAs and half of the shots can either be of a special material or have +1/2 in advantages.

 

So 20 points, and you are sorted. I love it when a plan comes together

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

I think I'm doing my math wrong, but I don't understand how 10 clips of 6 charges (AKA: 60 charges bought in clips of 6) comes to a +0 advantage.

 

Please explain.

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Variable advantage (of +1/2) +1 -1/4 for limited group (on 25 points), 30 charges (+1/4) total 25 points

 

Limitations (OAF, Real, Beam) -1 1/2, total 10 points

 

Chose from:

Explosion

AP

1.5x KB

Variable sfx

 

So you have a gun that can fire 1 1/2d6 RKAs and half of the shots can either be of a special material or have +1/2 in advantages.

 

So 20 points, and you are sorted. I love it when a plan comes together

 

Except that this solution does not work according to the rules. Variable advantages can only be changed once per phase (unless the GM waives this rule). Also, changing a variable advantage is a zero phase action. Zero phase actions cannot be done after any attack action. Whatever advantage is on an attack power when the first attack goes off is the advantage that is used on the attack power when the last attack in the phase goes off.

 

 

The entire point of Hyper-man's build was that it was a single attack power where all of the advantages are used every single time, but they just do not necessarily all work every single time (due to limitations). The power does not change between attacks, just different advantages are in effect during each attack.

 

That's the only way I see to get this to work. But, with a lot of advantages on the power, it does up the cost a lot.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

KarinsDad: You have a point. GAAHHH!!!

 

I'm starting to really think that I just won't be able to do this.

 

But I was looking over the thread again, and wondering: What about Trigger?

 

I know that it makes things more expensive and redundant, but as long as I don't go over 70 Active, thats fine.

 

Why not replace VSFX with an attack that has trigger on it? Or even not use Naked Advantages, just make each bullet its own attack with trigger?

 

So I would have:

 

Normal bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

Silver bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

Armor Piercing bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2), Aromor Piercing (+1/2)

(60 active points, 28 real points)

 

Cold Iron bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

I know that it makes thinks MUCH more expensive, but I am sure I could also tack on a ton more limitations to take the cost down.

 

What do you think?

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

But I was looking over the thread again, and wondering: What about Trigger?

 

I know that it makes things more expensive and redundant, but as long as I don't go over 70 Active, thats fine.

 

Why not replace VSFX with an attack that has trigger on it? Or even not use Naked Advantages, just make each bullet its own attack with trigger?

 

So I would have:

 

Normal bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

Silver bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

Armor Piercing bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2), Aromor Piercing (+1/2)

(60 active points, 28 real points)

 

Cold Iron bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 4 clips of 6 charges (-1/4), trigger: relates set of conditions, no action to activate, half phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+1/2) (45 active points, 18 real points)

 

I know that it makes thinks MUCH more expensive, but I am sure I could also tack on a ton more limitations to take the cost down.

 

What do you think?

 

I think that this gives you four shots max until you reset each one with a half phase.

 

You should put on them the +1/4 reset is a zero phase action advantage.

 

You also need one of the related set of triggers to be that you "pull the trigger". That should not be the only trigger though, since otherwise all of the bullets fire simultaneously. The other possible triggers should be based on the previous bullet firing.

 

One downside of this solution is that they all fire off every time you set them and they all fire off in the same order (each being a trigger off the previous one). Course, this is somewhat a minor issue since you reset them at the beginning of a phase (if you put on the extra +1/4), but if you set up 3 of the 4 triggers on a phase and fire the first one, you fire the other 2 as well (which could kill an opponent if you did not realize that he did not have resistant defenses). Once set up, the triggers force them to fire.

 

Another downside is that you cannot fire off two AP bullets followed by a single Silver bullet. Each power is used once per phase max (because the trigger for it is not reset until the next phase).

 

So, this would work.

 

 

But, I really think Hyper-man's idea is best, the limitations just need to be worded properly.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

But I was looking over the thread again, and wondering: What about Trigger?

 

I know that it makes things more expensive and redundant, but as long as I don't go over 70 Active, thats fine.

 

Why not replace VSFX with an attack that has trigger on it? Or even not use Naked Advantages, just make each bullet its own attack with trigger?

 

What do you think?

 

I think you should have finished reading page 2...

 

For the solution' date=' what if all of the slots had self-resetting triggers that require another bullet be fired AND the character intend to fire the Triggered attack when the first bullet is fired? That's going to be an expensive advantage, but it would technically allow him to fire as many bullets in a row as he wants.[/quote']

 

Where I previously suggested Trigger, and was soundly ignored.

 

But better late than never, I suppose.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Gideon jsut managed to free himself from captors, and find his gun. He hunkers down behind some cover and checks his ammo. He has 1 AP bullet, 2 lead bullets and 1 silver bullet. The 2 lead bullets are already in loaded in the barrel.

 

He makes his way throught the secret villian complex and finds the weapons locker. There are 4 agents guarding the room. He has a clear shot on alll of them, and he wants to take them down as fast as he can. I make his Fast Draw roll so he can load the gun as a half phase action. He ow has 1 AP bullet, 1 silver bullets and 2 lead bullets in the gun.

 

He shoots. He has rapid attack, so even thought I can't use it because of the differet ammo types: rapid fire is only a half phase action. Four targets, one bullet each. First bullet in the chamber is AP, the second and third are both lead, and the fourth is silver.

 

Surprise, as well as skill help him and he hits all four targets, and they go down. Gideon now has access to their weapon locker and the rest of his ammo.

 

Its not a matter of me wanting to be able to shoot 3, 4, or 5 targets in every round of combat all the time. AND its not that I want to be able to use all the different kinds of bullets the character has on him all the time.

 

Its simply a matter of I want to be able to do it if I need to.

 

AND its really ment to simulate: I am using what I have on me. NOT I have special bullets that I can change the atomic structure of when I shoot them.

Will you GM allow you to buy extra SPD, Only To Shoot People?

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Except that this solution does not work according to the rules. Variable advantages can only be changed once per phase (unless the GM waives this rule). Also, changing a variable advantage is a zero phase action. Zero phase actions cannot be done after any attack action. Whatever advantage is on an attack power when the first attack goes off is the advantage that is used on the attack power when the last attack in the phase goes off.

 

 

The entire point of Hyper-man's build was that it was a single attack power where all of the advantages are used every single time, but they just do not necessarily all work every single time (due to limitations). The power does not change between attacks, just different advantages are in effect during each attack.

 

That's the only way I see to get this to work. But, with a lot of advantages on the power, it does up the cost a lot.

 

Arguably the rapid fire rules are an exception to the normal rule that you can't do anything after an attack action anyway, so changing a variable advantage seems like a small point, but you are correct by the letter of the rules.

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

I think I'm doing my math wrong, but I don't understand how 10 clips of 6 charges (AKA: 60 charges bought in clips of 6) comes to a +0 advantage.

 

Please explain.

 

Easy: I miscounted

 

You can get up to 48 shots in clips of 6 for +0.

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Arguably the rapid fire rules are an exception to the normal rule that you can't do anything after an attack action anyway

 

Hardly.

 

Rapid Fire is a single full phase action, not multiple attack actions. One is not doing an attack action with Rapid Shot.

 

The fact that Rapid Shot allows multiple attacks (note: multiple attacks, not multiple attack actions) during it changes nothing about the fact that zero phase actions cannot be done after attack actions or full phase actions.

 

so changing a variable advantage seems like a small point

 

Changing two rules in order to accomplish the goal does not appear to be a "small point".