What is the best way to build this?

[Sean Waters]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hardly.

 

Rapid Fire is a single full phase action, not multiple attack actions. One is not doing an attack action with Rapid Shot.

 

The fact that Rapid Shot allows multiple attacks (note: multiple attacks, not multiple attack actions) during it changes nothing about the fact that zero phase actions cannot be done after attack actions or full phase actions.

 

 

 

Changing two rules in order to accomplish the goal does not appear to be a "small point".

 

I wouldn't have a problem with it, especially as you have to set up the next six shots in advance, not something I was handing out a limitation for. It seems to balance - you can't change the attack sequence situationally. Trigger seems unnecessarily bulky and applying all the advantages and a limitation that you can only use one seems over complex in build, although easy enough to administer in game.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Take a look at this old thread:

 

Multiple instances of same power in VPP?

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43910

 

Rapid fire is suggested by Steve Long as a work around to the very same issue at the heart of Gideon's construct.

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Rapid fire is suggested by Steve Long as a work around to the very same issue at the heart of Gideon's construct.

 

Go back and reread that entire post. Steve suggested nothing of the sort.

 

Rapid Fire does not have a single attack roll like he inadvertently assumed in his message there.

 

Hence, it is not a viable solution.

 

Steve did, however, explicitly state that such an attack sequence would require a single attack roll (which Rapid Fire does not).

 

Just because Steve made an error there does not mean that one can then use that error to support an illegal rules position. The rules are still the rules and it's obvious from the Rapid Fire rules that Steve made a mistake there (Rapid Fire has multiple attack rolls, not just one).

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

I think that this gives you four shots max until you reset each one with a half phase.

 

You should put on them the +1/4 reset is a zero phase action advantage.

 

You also need one of the related set of triggers to be that you "pull the trigger". That should not be the only trigger though, since otherwise all of the bullets fire simultaneously. The other possible triggers should be based on the previous bullet firing.

 

One downside of this solution is that they all fire off every time you set them and they all fire off in the same order (each being a trigger off the previous one). Course, this is somewhat a minor issue since you reset them at the beginning of a phase (if you put on the extra +1/4), but if you set up 3 of the 4 triggers on a phase and fire the first one, you fire the other 2 as well (which could kill an opponent if you did not realize that he did not have resistant defenses). Once set up, the triggers force them to fire.

 

Another downside is that you cannot fire off two AP bullets followed by a single Silver bullet. Each power is used once per phase max (because the trigger for it is not reset until the next phase).

 

So, this would work.

 

 

But, I really think Hyper-man's idea is best, the limitations just need to be worded properly.

Funny, I coulda swore I said something about Trigger a couple pages ago...

 

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

2d6 RKA, OAF (-1) 8 clips of 6 Charges (-0)

15 points

 

Naked Advantage:

Variable Advantage +1/4, set list (as Seans list) (+1/2) (15 AP)

Trigger on Naked Advantage (Trigger condition, limited group of triggers, (when designated shot # is fired, of 6 in clip. Shot number chosen when trigger set), Trigger reset requires 1/2 phase, SFX : Hand load special shell)

I think that's a +1/2, but I could be wrong (don't have the new & improved trigger rules)

Active cost of NA : 22pts

Limits: OAF (-1), Number and type of special bullets changed at base/as available and load must be noted (-1/2)

9 points

 

total, 24 points.

Should be able to rapid fire the RKA, and the Trigger will "activate" the VA when the appropriate chamber comes up. I'd allow a Power Skill: Gun Tricks roll to change the #1 position by rolling the cylinder, but thats up to the GM.

Other than that, I can't see a single reason why it shouldn't work (if the GM doesn't buy the idea, it still works, but you have to stick with the order unless you change out the trigger with another 1/2 phase Set Trigger action)

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hugh Neilson: Yes I know you talked about Trigger.

 

dust Raven: No, and it doesn't actually allow what I want.

 

KarinsDad: I can fire more than 4 shots, because the Trigger is bought with:

 

Trigger can be set multiple times.

 

But you are right that I need Zero Phase action, just not for that reason. Its because if the reset time is a half phase, then I can only set a maximum or 2 triggers a phase.

 

AmadanNaBriona: I know you have the right idea, but there is a problem with your design.

 

This design only works if ALL of the bullets in the gun are 2d6 RKAs. I know that I want one of the bullets to be a mercy round, and I am sure that my GM would have issues with me buying a Stun Only Killing Attack (That is what Energy Blast is for).

 

So even though it costs more points (I know I said I want to keep the cost down, but I don't see a way around it here), but I think the build needs to be as follows:

 

(Note: I made a mistake in my last build of this, I can't have clips because all the charges in a clip need to be changed at the same time)

Normal bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 24 charges (+1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (50 active points, 22 real points)

 

Silver bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Armor Piercing bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

Cold Iron bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Then I can also have:

 

Holy Bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Explosive bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Explosive (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

and so on...

 

The only thing I need to figure out is how much it costs to tack on a limitation stating that loading the bullets takes a full phase action (or half phase if fast draw is rolled), and that after 6 consectutive attacks I MUST reload.

 

I think I should also put in the "cannot be used as part of a multiple power attack" limitation, or some limited form of lockout that says: cannot use both powers unless trigger is set.

 

Is there anything I missed?

 

What do people think of building it this way?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

What do people think of building it this way?

 

I think the cost is way overblown for what it lets you do.

 

Take a look at the following modification to the 'multiple item' option.

 

21 Colt Peacemaker & Various Ammo: Multipower, 37-point reserve, all slots 8 clips of 6 Charges (+0), Limited Power x6 number of items is only to allow use of Rapid Fire with different ammo slots in combination with Expert Gun Handler 1 & 2 (+0), Limited Power Number of different ammo types in clips (speed loaders) are normally set before combat. Takes 1/2 phase to change ammo distribution of clips using Fast Draw. (+0) (52 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Cannot Be Used With Multiple-Power Attacks (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) [Notes: (x6 number of items) Number of clips of each slot type must be defined at beginning of adventure.] - END=

1u 1) Armor Piercing Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 2) Penetrating Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Penetrating (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 3) Hollow Point Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 4) Explosive Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Explosion (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 5) Variable SFX Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; Cold Iron, Silver, Holy, etc...; +1/4), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 6) Normal Bullets: RKA 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points) - END=0

- END=

 

10 Expert Gun Handler (part 1): Extra Limbs (6), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) Limited Power x6 number Limbs is only to allow use of Rapid Fire with different ammo slots in combination with Colt Peacemaker x6 number of items (+0) (10 Active Points) - END=0

 

9 Expert Gun Handler (part 2): Penalty Skill Levels: +3 vs. Offhand Penalty with Colt Peacemaker Multiple Item (6) Multipowers with All Attacks - END=

 

Mechanics-wise,

the character has 6 arms and 6 gun multipowers and can Rapid Fire a 'set' combination of the different 'slots'.

 

SFX-wise,

the character has just 2 arms and 1 gun with a variety of ammo loads that must be set ahead of time.

 

No trigger insanity required.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

I just read Blazing away. With a six shooter, why bother unless you have really lucky dice... "When blazing away, the character makes one attack roll for each attack fired, but he hits his target only if he rolls a 3 (this number cannot be imporved with Combat Skill Levels, Combat Modifiers, or any other method). You should just add another slot to your multipower and call is Blazing Away, give it an 8- activation, clip is emptied, variable special effect limited to ammo, random effect.

 

The maneuver is good for 2 things, neither depending on the ammo you're shooting... Added presence for an extremely violent action and emptying your clip.

 

Rapid fire is tricky. My question is how you define your multi. Do you say, the first bullet is blah and the second is blah... or can you chose which comes out. If the bullet comes out in a random order, say a variable special effect for each charge in the multi (the multi having the charges and not the slots) then switching slots is not a problem. Since the maneuver is defined by using multiple charges and if each charge is random. Actually, charges kind of overrule the multi-slot rule... when changing slots the other power is turned off, unless its a charge... blah blah blah... Plus, the maneuver itself overrides the action phase. Normally you can only shoot 1 power once. Being able to shoot multiple times with this maneuver, why not use different slots in the multi for each shot or charge. There nothing saying you can't with this manuever.

 

Or. Just define the entire thing as a variable power pool, changing slots is a zero phase action and be done. Thumb your nose at the GM when you make up bullets of convenience on the fly. Mmm. Superheroic...

[KarinsDad]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

KarinsDad: I can fire more than 4 shots, because the Trigger is bought with:

 

Trigger can be set multiple times.

 

But you are right that I need Zero Phase action, just not for that reason. Its because if the reset time is a half phase, then I can only set a maximum or 2 triggers a phase.

 

As you built it, it was two triggers per phase reset.

 

But, Trigger can be set multiple times does not change the zero phase reset rule. Once you fire a trigger off, it stays off until you reset it. Since you were using zero phase resets, that meant that you could only fire off a max of 4 shots per phase because once the first one fires off, you could not do any more zero phase actions to reset it.

 

The +1/2 "trigger resets automatically after it activates" advantage could help if you combined the attacks with Rapid Fire, but then you would be getting REAL pricey. Without this advantage, no you cannot fire more than a max of 4 shots per phase because there is no way to reset the trigger "mid-attack" otherwise.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

This design only works if ALL of the bullets in the gun are 2d6 RKAs. I know that I want one of the bullets to be a mercy round' date=' and I am sure that my GM would have issues with me buying a Stun Only Killing Attack (That is what Energy Blast is for).[/quote']

 

Since the major issue with most suggested builds is that they require some level of rules handwaving, and your GM wants to maintain the rules by the book, perhaps allowing something that is acceptable by the book, but not common or recommended, would be a reasonable compromise.

 

So even though it costs more points (I know I said I want to keep the cost down, but I don't see a way around it here), but I think the build needs to be as follows:

 

(Note: I made a mistake in my last build of this, I can't have clips because all the charges in a clip need to be changed at the same time)

Normal bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 24 charges (+1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (50 active points, 22 real points)

 

Silver bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Armor Piercing bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

Cold Iron bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Then I can also have:

 

Holy Bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Explosive bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Explosive (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

Of course, having paid for the ability to fire off six bullets simultaneously, it now makes little tactical sense for the character to ever fire off only one bullet. Note that, thanks to the Trigger, Rapid Attack is not required to fire multiple bullets, so there's no stacking of OCV penalties or other Rapid Attack penalties to worry about. Perhaps a limitation that the Rapid Attack rules apply would further reduce the cost.

 

The only thing I need to figure out is how much it costs to tack on a limitation stating that loading the bullets takes a full phase action (or half phase if fast draw is rolled), and that after 6 consectutive attacks I MUST reload.

 

I think I should also put in the "cannot be used as part of a multiple power attack" limitation, or some limited form of lockout that says: cannot use both powers unless trigger is set.

 

Further cost reductions. I would suggest the limitation for the reload should be somewhere between the value for "extra time - 1 phase only to activate" (that would be -1/4) and 6 charges (-3/4 IIRC). With that in mind, I'd be inclined to go with -1/4, since I think the limit is a lot closer to the low end than the high end. Another -1/4 for the limited lockout would seem appropriate.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

AmadanNaBriona: I know you have the right idea, but there is a problem with your design.

 

This design only works if ALL of the bullets in the gun are 2d6 RKAs. I know that I want one of the bullets to be a mercy round, and I am sure that my GM would have issues with me buying a Stun Only Killing Attack (That is what Energy Blast is for).

All thing being equal, a STUN only RKA is essentially completely book-legal... just mildly distasteful.

You might want to ask about it...it's going to save you a lot of pain in the long run.

 

So even though it costs more points (I know I said I want to keep the cost down, but I don't see a way around it here), but I think the build needs to be as follows:

 

(Note: I made a mistake in my last build of this, I can't have clips because all the charges in a clip need to be changed at the same time)

Normal bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 24 charges (+1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (50 active points, 22 real points)

 

Silver bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Armor Piercing bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

Cold Iron bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Then I can also have:

 

Holy Bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4) (44 active points, 18 real points)

 

Explosive bullets: 2d6-1 RKA, OAF (-1), Beam(-1/4), 12 charges (-1/4), trigger: related set of conditions, no action to activate, Zero phase to reset, can be set multiple times (+3/4), Explosive (+1/2) (56 active points, 22 real points)

 

and so on...

 

The only thing I need to figure out is how much it costs to tack on a limitation stating that loading the bullets takes a full phase action (or half phase if fast draw is rolled), and that after 6 consectutive attacks I MUST reload.

 

I think I should also put in the "cannot be used as part of a multiple power attack" limitation, or some limited form of lockout that says: cannot use both powers unless trigger is set.

 

Is there anything I missed?

 

What do people think of building it this way?

 

It's similar to what I sugested awhile back, but REALLY expensive.

You're rebuying EXACTLY the same RKA, barring SFX, several times. Hence why I keep looking at VSFX, either apart or as part of a Variable Advantage.

You shouldn't get any points for "No Multiple Power attacks" for 2 reasons... Your GM doesn't allow them (or this would be much easier to figure out) and you are trying to figure out how to effectivly build the power to bypass that house rule.

The advantage to the fairly simple build I posted above (barring bad math...I wuz tired), is that the Trigger takes care of shifting the Variable Advantage (it should have the "Trigger may be set multiple times" modifier, but as I mentioned I was guessing...I don't have the updated trigger rules from 5ER). It allows the Trigger to be used to bypass the whole "Can't shift the Variable Advantage mid attack" bit, and in theory could have as many preset triggers as you have charges. Reloading a whole clip would still follow the normal clip reloading rules, because you've "front loaded" the special shells at 1/2 phase each. If you REALLY wanted it to sim a bit closer, add the additional "Trigger resets as a 0 phase action", which is an extra +1/4 IIRC, with RSR Fast Draw for quick on the fly reloading.

 

Like I said...should solve MOST of your issues (other than the pesky mercy bullets, which I still think could work with this) with a cost approximately appropriate to the utility of the power.

Honestly, depending on the campaign a LOT of the time your special material bullets aren't gonna do much, so you shouln't have to spend many times the normal point cost for the ability to do what I can do by wandering down to the range with a mixed bag of bullets and my fire-iron. Last time I shot the Blackhawk, I mixed 3 .44 specials, 2 .44 magnums, and 1 .44 Mag hotload (intended as bear deterrent) in the cylinder as a recoil drill. If it's something that, provided the right ammo, any git can do, a super-bloody-hero shouldn't have to spend half his starting points to gain the same utility.

 

Heck, if Mercy bullets are REALLY a sticking point there may be a way to use my build above THEN take the mercy bullets as a seperate triggered EB. Still probably cheaper than buying a seperate and discrete complex triggered attack for Holy Bullets, Silver Bullets, Ruby Bullets, Kryponite Bullets, Limburgher Cheese Bullets or what ever other 2d6-1 RKA SFX you want.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Limburgher Cheese Bullets

 

Man, that stinks!

 

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Man, that stinks!

 

 

Who knows what Vunerability he might meet

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hyper-Man: That doesn't work.

 

You CANNOT activate multiple attack power from the same framework in one phase. Period. This was one of the first things discussed on the thread.

 

Having Extra Limbs does not change this.

 

Thia Halmades: You still CANNOT activate multiple attack power from the same framework in one phase.

 

Even if its a Cosmic VPP.

 

KarinsDad: OK I screwed that one up.

 

If the Trigger is bought with half phase to reset and Trigger can be set Multiple times (as far as I understand the rules) it means that I can set that Trigger any number of times as 1 half phase action.

 

However, what I meant to say is that by buying the power with half phase reset time, I am limited to setting up tiggers for only 2 of the powers in phase. Because each power takes a half phase to load. So I could put 3 silver bullets and 3 AP bullets in the gun by taking 2 half phase actions, or 6 Silver bullets in the gun by taking 1 half phase action, but putting 1 silver bullet, 1 AP bullet and 1 lead bullet would take me 3 half phase actions.

 

Either way it leads to the same thing: I can't have Half Phase Reset Time, I need Zero Phase Reset Time.

 

Hugh Neilson: Well you have a point.

 

So even if it is at -0, I need to have the limitations: Takes a full phase to use triggers (or half phase with the use of Rapid Attack Skill), and must take a cumulitive -2 OCV penalty for each activated trigger.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Hyper-Man: That doesn't work.

 

You CANNOT activate multiple attack power from the same framework in one phase. Period. This was one of the first things discussed on the thread.

 

Take a closer look. It's not the same framework. Mechanically it is 6 identical frameworks. A very important, and rules legal, distinction from my earlier proposal.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

dust Raven: No' date=' and it doesn't actually allow what I want.[/quote']

 

That sucks. And I think it does allow what you want, at least per your description of events. All you really need is the ability to fire off a variety of rounds extremely quickly. There are a number of mechanics which can do this, one of them is having a high SPD.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Optionally, you could add the following to my last build as well:

 

5 6 Chambers of bullets instead of 6 guns: Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2) for up to 15 Active Points of 'Quantity 6' (15 active points) on Colt Peacemaker & Various Ammo, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1) - END=0

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Take a closer look. It's not the same framework. Mechanically it is 6 identical frameworks. A very important' date=' and rules legal, distinction from my earlier proposal.[/quote']

 

To help clarify the write up (which, looking at it, should also work, so props to you) you might repost it with the Equipment Doubling cost seperated from the cost of the MP.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

To help clarify the write up (which' date=' looking at it, should also work, so props to you) you might repost it with the Equipment Doubling cost seperated from the cost of the MP.[/quote']

 

That is as much an output issue with HDv3 as anything else. The Real cost of the Multipower reserve is 15 without the 15 points for the Equipement Doubling (which can take no Limitations).

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Ok, just so EVERYONE is on the same page here. I haven't mentioned this gun build to my GM yet. He knows about the character, but he doesn't know how I want to build the gun.

 

All thing being equal, a STUN only RKA is essentially completely book-legal... just mildly distasteful.

You might want to ask about it...it's going to save you a lot of pain in the long run.

I actually asked him about this and he said: No. He won't allow a STUN only RKA or HKA. So that option has been officially defenistrated.

 

It's similar to what I sugested awhile back, but REALLY expensive.

You're rebuying EXACTLY the same RKA, barring SFX, several times. Hence why I keep looking at VSFX, either apart or as part of a Variable Advantage.

You shouldn't get any points for "No Multiple Power attacks" for 2 reasons... Your GM doesn't allow them (or this would be much easier to figure out) and you are trying to figure out how to effectivly build the power to bypass that house rule.

WHOA, WHOA WHOA!!!!!

 

I NEVER said that my GM doesn't allow Multiple-Power Attacks. I said the RULES IN THE BOOK state that:

 

1. Multiple attacks in the same framework cannot be used as part of a Multiple-Power Attack
   which means that framewors are out. Completely.
    
   
2. According to page 358 of the 5ER, All attacks from a Multiple-Power Attack MUST be aimed at the same target.
   And this totally negates the concept of what I am asking help to build.
   

 

The advantage to the fairly simple build I posted above (barring bad math...I wuz tired), is that the Trigger takes care of shifting the Variable Advantage (it should have the "Trigger may be set multiple times" modifier, but as I mentioned I was guessing...I don't have the updated trigger rules from 5ER). It allows the Trigger to be used to bypass the whole "Can't shift the Variable Advantage mid attack" bit, and in theory could have as many preset triggers as you have charges. Reloading a whole clip would still follow the normal clip reloading rules, because you've "front loaded" the special shells at 1/2 phase each. If you REALLY wanted it to sim a bit closer, add the additional "Trigger resets as a 0 phase action", which is an extra +1/4 IIRC, with RSR Fast Draw for quick on the fly reloading.

 

Like I said...should solve MOST of your issues (other than the pesky mercy bullets, which I still think could work with this) with a cost approximately appropriate to the utility of the power.

Honestly, depending on the campaign a LOT of the time your special material bullets aren't gonna do much, so you shouln't have to spend many times the normal point cost for the ability to do what I can do by wandering down to the range with a mixed bag of bullets and my fire-iron. Last time I shot the Blackhawk, I mixed 3 .44 specials, 2 .44 magnums, and 1 .44 Mag hotload (intended as bear deterrent) in the cylinder as a recoil drill. If it's something that, provided the right ammo, any git can do, a super-bloody-hero shouldn't have to spend half his starting points to gain the same utility.

 

You are right, THAT would solve most of the problems.

 

Heck, if Mercy bullets are REALLY a sticking point there may be a way to use my build above THEN take the mercy bullets as a seperate triggered EB. Still probably cheaper than buying a seperate and discrete complex triggered attack for Holy Bullets, Silver Bullets, Ruby Bullets, Kryponite Bullets, Limburgher Cheese Bullets or what ever other 2d6-1 RKA SFX you want.

ROFL...

 

Its also not just Mercy Bullets. I want the ability to make other kinds of bullets later on. Possibly a "flare" bullet, thats a 1 hex flash, or some kind of bullet that creates an entangle. I'm not really sure what kinds of things I want to take in the future, but I want the ability to make more different kinds of bullets including ones that aren't just 2d6-1 RKAs.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Take a closer look. It's not the same framework. Mechanically it is 6 identical frameworks. A very important' date=' and rules legal, distinction from my earlier proposal.[/quote']

Edit: Sorry, I missed part of the explanation.

 

The problem with that is: how do I have 6 different frameworks of the same OAF Gun? That doesn't work right somewhere.

[Gideon]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

That sucks. And I think it does allow what you want' date=' at least per your description of events. All you really need is the ability to fire off a variety of rounds extremely quickly. There are a number of mechanics which can do this, one of them is having a high SPD.[/quote']

 

You are both right and wrong in a way. Yes having extra speed only to shoot allows me to fire very fast, but it doesn't allow me to hit the three guys who are standing over my friends uncouncious body threatening to kill her all before they get to act. And that is the type of situation I really want to use this for.

 

With extra speed, it is almost guaranteed that one of those guys will get to act befor I've taken my third shot.

 

So that's why I said it isn't quite what I am looking for.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

My latest proposal also fully supports non-KA rounds with minimal cost increase. Just add the following slots:

 

1u 7) Bean-Bag Bullets: EB 7d6+1 (37 Active Points); Limited Range (-1/4) - END=0

1u 8) Sparkler Bullets: Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Ok' date=' just so EVERYONE is on the same page here. I haven't mentioned this gun build to my GM yet. He knows about the character, but he doesn't know how I want to build the gun. [/quote']

 

You seriously might want to discuss this in further depth with him then, possibly aklso directing him to this thread. If he's going for a "potentially publishable, book legal" write up he might just die of apoplexy if you spring some of these approaches on him without warning.

 

We're getting heavy into the munchkinisim here. Attempting to be completely book legal, but munchkin nonetheless.

 

I actually asked him about this and he said: No. He won't allow a STUN only RKA or HKA. So that option has been officially defenistrated.

Pity, but if thats the ruling from the judges, so be it.

He might relent once you get into the whole problem and potential solutions, as the lesser of potential evils.

 

WHOA, WHOA WHOA!!!!!

 

I NEVER said that my GM doesn't allow Multiple-Power Attacks. I said the RULES IN THE BOOK state that:

 

1. Multiple attacks in the same framework cannot be used as part of a Multiple-Power Attack
   which means that framewors are out. Completely.
    
   
2. According to page 358 of the 5ER, All attacks from a Multiple-Power Attack MUST be aimed at the same target.
   And this totally negates the concept of what I am asking help to build.
   

Check. Gotcha. I misunderstood something you said early on and got it stuck in my head that you weren't gonna be allowed to used MPA's. My bad.

 

You are right, THAT would solve most of the problems.

 

ROFL...

 

Its also not just Mercy Bullets. I want the ability to make other kinds of bullets later on. Possibly a "flare" bullet, thats a 1 hex flash, or some kind of bullet that creates an entangle. I'm not really sure what kinds of things I want to take in the future, but I want the ability to make more different kinds of bullets including ones that aren't just 2d6-1 RKAs.

 

Yeah, adding non-RKA powers ups the cost by a metric buttload, and no 2 ways about it.

Still feels like much ado about nothing. Kinda sad that our beloved Ultimate Toolkit can't pull off something that can be both explained and demonstrated quite easily in R/L, works with a minimum of fuss in Heroic level games, and yet for some reason has been, by dint of the way the rules are written, seems to be considered potentially gamebreakingly unbalanced.

Heck, I could mix loads in a single magazine in Car Wars back in the 80's, for nothin more than a simple accessory.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What is the best way to build this?

 

Edit: Sorry, I missed part of the explanation.

 

The problem with that is: how do I have 6 different frameworks of the same OAF Gun? That doesn't work right somewhere.

 

You are confusing mechanics with special effects. They do not always have to match.

 

example:

The good old standard Block maneuver can be defined on a particular character as 'Taking it on the chin!'. When successfuly used the character interposes his chin in front of the incomming punch/kick/etc.. and takes no damage.

 

Multiple copies of the same power by way of doubling for every 5 un-limited points spent is just the mechanics. You can still define it as one item if you want. And if the GM has issue just apply the IPE Naked advantage on the doubling cost (which I already posted).