Limitation, accidental discharge

[McCoy]

Is there a limitation for a power which normally works well, but will occasionally "go off by itself"?

 

Something like Havok's power sometimes fireing without him wanting it to, or Don Knott's six gun firing as it's holstered. "No concious control" does not seem to fit, usually the power is under control, with just an occasional "oops!"

 

If there is not, should there be? I'm thinking of -1/4 to -1/2, depending on how long it would take to recover the END or charge the accidental discharge burns.

 

All feedback and opinions gratefuly considered.

[Vondy]

I don't think their is, but it could be considered a variation of accidental change.

[RadeFox]

The level of the disad would be totally dependant on how much it would hinder or disrupt the character. If you had say Cyclops style RKA eye blast that just went off every once in a while, theres a damn good chance you'd be leaving a trail of dead bodies in your wake. Something like that, that could seriously affect your character, would almost be a -1 limit, BUT it would have to be unstoppable when it went off, if you had Cyclops eyeglasses, then it would be worth Zip.

 

Something like say Invisibility that went off by itself, is wierd, but not likely to directly cause the character serious hinderance or trauma, unless they had a Secret ID. This would be closer to a -1/4 disad.

 

Something more in the middle, would hit the -1/2 range, imo. Say a power like a low powered EB or a Flash or Entangle.

[smugg]

I don't know a point value for the limitation, but when you're ready to buy it off your GM will have to assign your character a trip to Dr. Ruth...

[Snarf]

I've been thinking about doing something like this. There's a disadvantage called uncontrolled in GURPS that's exactly like what you're describing. I used it a lot in a campaign I want to port over to Hero.

 

I think this is close enough to No Conscious Control where you can derive an estimate of the cost.

 

For -2, you have the full No Conscious Control, where you cannot control the power's activation or effect.

 

For -1, you can control the power's activation but not it's effect. There was no name for this but I'd call it Uncontrolled Effect.

 

So, here's where the house rules begin. Take the difference, and for -1 you could control a power's effect but not it's activation. I'll call this Uncontrolled Activation.

[McCoy]

Thanks everyone. Snarf, not exactly uncontrolled activation. Think of a gun without a safety. It operates normally when you want it to, just also occasionally when you don't want it to.

 

The character in question has Dragon Breath, RKA Area cone 6 charges. I said something about being careful when she sneezes, and the player liked it! Now trying to figure out what an approperate limitation would be worth. I'm thinking -1/2, she will occasionally go into combat with one charge already expended. Fortunately, no Secret ID.

[Snarf]

Gah, you're right. Uncontrolled Activation would just mean you have no control at all.

 

Okay, halve the value of Uncontrolled Activation for Unpredictable Activation. Sometimes you control it, sometimes you don't. There we go, -1/2! ehh nevermind, I guess I have nothing useful to say about price.

 

I was going to make it work just like how it does in GURPS: during moments of stress, such as dangerous combat or if something triggers a phobia, the power will activate unless the player makes an EGO roll with appropriate penalties. Exactly what happens would be determined by the situation and what caused the stress.

 

BTW, the disadvantage was worth -30% in GURPS. I'm not too sure how that would translate.

[RadeFox]

Don't forget, McCoy, that you in your role as GM must make sure the Hinderance value of the disad is played to balance the savings in points the character enjoys. Simply going into combat a charge down doesn't seem to me to be a big disadvantage.

 

If it were me GM'ing, I'd make sure that every so often she flames a cop car, or another character, or their base computer when it gives her a file error!

Now were talking value for the disad, not too mention a lot of really good RP avenues opening up.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by RadeFox

Don't forget, McCoy, that you in your role as GM must make sure the Hinderance value of the disad is played to balance the savings in points the character enjoys. Simply going into combat a charge down doesn't seem to me to be a big disadvantage.

 

If it were me GM'ing, I'd make sure that every so often she flames a cop car, or another character, or their base computer when it gives her a file error!

Now were talking value for the disad, not too mention a lot of really good RP avenues opening up.

Check out the book Firestarter for some great examples of that. When you feel your shoes heating up, run!

[McCoy]

Originally posted by RadeFox

Don't forget, McCoy, that you in your role as GM must make sure the Hinderance value of the disad is played to balance the savings in points the character enjoys. Simply going into combat a charge down doesn't seem to me to be a big disadvantage.

 

If it were me GM'ing, I'd make sure that every so often she flames a cop car, or another character, or their base computer when it gives her a file error!

Now were talking value for the disad, not too mention a lot of really good RP avenues opening up.

 

It's going to start out with her allergic to a certain substance, and leting off a flame sneeze when she walks into the Museum of Natural History.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Snarf

BTW, the disadvantage was worth -30% in GURPS. I'm not too sure how that would translate.

 

That comes out to a -1/2 limitation. A 60 pts power with a -1/2 limitation = 40 real points. That's about right, I guess.

[Lord Liaden]

Hmm... You might be able to run this as a variation on the Activation Roll Limitation with additional Side Effects Limitation of equal Active Points. Instead of the Activation applying when the character uses the Power deliberately, you could define it as being rolled under appropriate circumstances as per the Accidental Change Disadvantage. I would give the Activation Roll full Limitation value if the circumstances are Very Common, reducing the Lim by one level if it's only Common, and by two levels if it's Uncommon.

[Killer Shrike]

There are a few ways to do this.

 

I dont have my book w/ me, so these are hip shots.

 

The Disadvantage Accidental Change can be used to simulate this. Chance to go off, chance to recover. Define the Circumstance (when sneezing) and there you go. When you as the GM determine she might sneeze, make her roll the Accidental Change. If she fails it, kaboom. Until she can make the recovery rolls she keeps sneezing, for a lot of kabooms.

 

Thats probably the method I would favor.

 

 

You can also do something along these lines: take a Side Effect (Effects Environment/Others, Happens always) and use the AP from the SE to buy a Naked Power Advantage Trigger with the Misfire option. Define the Trigger as the event ("Sneeze" in this case). With the Misfire modifier, there is noramlly a chance that the trigger doesnt work; just reverse the polarity on it and there you go. When she sneezes, it might go off. It will probably work out to a -1/4 lim.

[RadeFox]

I am loving the Museum of Natural History idea McCoy. Too funny....

 

Tour guide, "An now you see here one of only three perfectly preserved Wooly Mammoths to have been excavated out of the deep ice in Siberia"

 

Player nearby, "Ahh........ahhhh....."

 

Tour Guide,"Please not the excellent condition of the hair and the tusks. This is a perfect specimen will allow the scientists here to learn much about how the mammoths lived and.."

 

Player, "KA-CHOOOOOO!!!!!"

 

Tour Guide, smoking and singed, peer around the now flaming and crackling Wooly Mammoths ruined corpse, eeks out, "Died...", and then passes out while the sprinkler system overhead goes off.

 

Too much fun. Good idea!

[Al_Beddow]

Re: Limitation, accidental discharge

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Is there a limitation for a power which normally works well, but will occasionally "go off by itself"?

 

I would use an activation roll as a limitation, with the higher the required roll to "fail" the less it's worth. I.E. needing a 16- to maintain control would be a -1/4, 14- might be a -1/2, etc

[McCoy]

Originally posted by RadeFox

I am loving the Museum of Natural History idea McCoy. Too funny....

 

Tour guide, "An now you see here one of only three perfectly preserved Wooly Mammoths to have been excavated out of the deep ice in Siberia"

 

Player nearby, "Ahh........ahhhh....."

 

Tour Guide,"Please not the excellent condition of the hair and the tusks. This is a perfect specimen will allow the scientists here to learn much about how the mammoths lived and.."

 

Player, "KA-CHOOOOOO!!!!!"

 

Tour Guide, smoking and singed, peer around the now flaming and crackling Wooly Mammoths ruined corpse, eeks out, "Died...", and then passes out while the sprinkler system overhead goes off.

 

Too much fun. Good idea!

 

Hope the player isn't reading this. Mammoth fur is the first allergy trigger, she will sneeze when she walks into the museum, when she fights the monster with Mammoth DNA gene spliced into it, and when she meets the mad scientist who created said monster in his civilian ID.

 

Then I'll come up with a different sneeze trigger.

[Farkling]

I don't know....

 

if it's a Physical problem....it may be a limitation applied to a power...

 

A more "global" problem would be a Psych Lim for "Lack of Control of Powers" or a "Stress looses mutant abilities" also.

 

The whole visit to Dr. Ruth scenario would make it seem like a psych lim....

[Al_Beddow]

Re: Limitation, accidental discharge

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Is there a limitation for a power which normally works well, but will occasionally "go off by itself"?

 

I believe that in the lates "Games Monthly" (is that right), the "Hero 5th vs Silver Age Sentinals" add does a side by side comparison of The Hulk for both systems. The Hero version should give you a perfect example of what you want.

[Farkling]

Every Hulk style character we've ever written up in my gaming groups has had a Physical Limitation of "cannot control STR" or some variant thereof. It was specifically to simulate the accidental use of too much STR, or to reflect that our "Hulk type" could not exert normal STR. Y'know, use keyboards, payphones, doorknobs, food processors, microwaves, and things of that nature. It's a Thing limitation too...."fingers the size of half-dollars" I recall seeing at a con somewhere....