How is HERO selling?

[Steve Long]

Hero is at a disadvantage here, in my opinion. They produce HUGE books, which is great for you and me because we get lots of material. It's not great for the store owner because it means higher cost, which means a bigger risk if it sits on the shelf.

 

Not strictly true. Look at the size of one of our $24.99 books, like the HSB or USPD. Then look at the comparative number of pages -- 256-272 -- worth of products from other companies, such as AEG. You'll often find that it's cheaper for the retailer to stock our product -- 272 pages of Hero material costs less than 272 pages' worth of books from other companies. Furthermore, because he's only dealing with one product, it's easier on the retailer, which reduces his administrative overhead. Stocking our line is actually a better risk for a retailer in many respects.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Something I noticed in the original post. You're basing this on sales at a WotC store? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the WotC stores recently adopt an effectively "nothing but d20" mandate?

[Hugh Neilson]

Steve, I'm not down on the Hero products - I'd rather spend the $25 (US - more like $40 up here in Canada!) and get a product with meat to it. Hero does a thorough job on its products, and there's no padding in a 272 page book (unlike SOME companies who seem to need third-rate material to fill 48 or 64 pages).

 

But the per unit cost is higher, so the retailer takes a greater risk if he buys a shelf copy and no one picks it up. He can buy 4 $10 supplements (in my dollars) and, if a couple sell, he's at least broken even. With the big Hero book, he risks the whole amount sitting unsold.

 

Of course, Hero also has the advantage of being a known name - why buy a bunch of stuff from some "d20 open license" startup which may turn out to be junk, when we can get some recognized Hero product that sells through. This makes more of a difference to a store that focuses on games than to one that just dabbles, I suppose.

 

I always like to ask in any store where I don't see Hore products - if enough people ask "Why don't you carry this?" that translates into "Hey, you lost an easy sale" and they start looking in to the product. Hey, it's in my best interest - more sales for Hero = bigger print runs = lower costs, and more players = more demand for product = more reason for Hero to put out more good product. And I always like getting more product from Hero!

 

[Now if you could send my gaming store the name of some distributors...seems he really has to search for some of the product - he does, because he knows he has a sale the day it arrives, but he often has to check with several distributors.]

[Hugh Neilson]

I do like the logic of getting more pages per $$ (one reason I like Hero's products) - I'll have to raise that to the naysayers. Why pay $10 for a 32 page sourcebook? For $40 you can get a 256 page Hero book - that's twice as much for the same price!

 

For those who frequent the traditional "comic shop with the occasional game as a sideline", it never hurts to point out that Champions is a Super Hero RPG - do you think your comic reading customers (who come in every week) will more likely "Impulse buy" a product with a guy with a sword on the cover, or one with a four colour super battle? Comic readers are more likely to branch into a Supers RPG.

 

Your comic store owner may not know anything about RPG's (some do; some don't), but he does know that any new product a customer gets interested in translates to more sales.

[Steve Long]

[Now if you could send my gaming store the name of some distributors...seems he really has to search for some of the product - he does, because he knows he has a sale the day it arrives, but he often has to check with several distributors.]

 

The "Hero Retailers" page here on the website has a listing of all the distributors who receive our solicitation information. Alliance, ACD, and GameBoard, among many others, all buy lots of our books and would be glad to sell 'em to your local gaming store.

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Lupus

HERO's selling real well down in Australia. That's what I hear from one of the mainwholesalers here, anyway. Apparently, they can get 30 books in and sell out inside of a week - that's a lot better than any other line. I thought for ages that they just weren't stocking books, because I could never find a copy of Champions. Then I found out they /were/ getting in copies, they were just selling out.

Which wholesaler is this, Walrus & Carpenter? My FLGS has ordered stuff from them for me both HERO and Chaosium's Call of Cthulthu Fiction. It usally takes at least one month or 2 from when I place the order, from when they mail out the order sheets to FLGSs. But at least they come through...but the agonizing waiting.

[KawangaKid]

My local Gaming Store / Comics Store

 

It gets from a distributor in the U.S. Can an e-mail or private message be sent to me as to which distributors are being used?

 

There's this WEIRD excuse that goes like: "Our distributor has difficulty getting the older stuff, but can bring out the new releases easier."

 

This is problematic since you need the main HERO book to play everything else. The only thing they're getting is the crossover thingy, and other stuff that I want. But they're NOT stocking HERO because they're concerned about not having the main book.

[tesuji]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

I do like the logic of getting more pages per $$ (one reason I like Hero's products) - I'll have to raise that to the naysayers. Why pay $10 for a 32 page sourcebook? For $40 you can get a 256 page Hero book - that's twice as much for the same price!

 

Bulk != value.

 

Not meant to slam hero, but IMX overall size doesn't make for better... gaming. I have plopped down $32 for a 300 page book and $25 for a 400 page book and gotten both home and within half a day realized the 400 page book was nigh on useless and filled with padding and the 200 page book was marvelous and sparking new ideas and games right away. The 400 page book is now just filler on my shelf while the 200 pager is a campaign in progress.

 

lean and mean has a great deal of merit IMO.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by tesuji

Bulk != value.

...

lean and mean has a great deal of merit IMO.

 

Agreed. However, as I said in an earlier post, I generally find the Hero products have solid material throughout. Also, I'm sure that, like me, you've seen 32 page products that still manage to include a lot of padding - the fact that it's smaller doesn't mean it's not padded to get as "large" as it did.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by MarkusDark

The trouble with a new store is that they usually will only buy what sells and I had to guarantee them (with a deposit) that I was going to buy Fantasy Hero before they would order it.

Wow. Sounds like they are operating in the red.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Wow. Sounds like they are operating in the red.

 

Or they've been burned before. "Oh, order this for me and I'll buy it when it comes in." When it arrives..."Oh, I bought it somewhere else last week" or "Oh, I forgot to tell you I don't want it any more."

[Al_Beddow]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Or they've been burned before. "Oh, order this for me and I'll buy it when it comes in." When it arrives..."Oh, I bought it somewhere else last week" or "Oh, I forgot to tell you I don't want it any more."

 

I hate it when people pull that crap.

 

Personally I have no problem with paying a deposit to get something special in to a store. I've never been asked for one but when I first moved here I offered it to be polite.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Al_Beddow

I hate it when people pull that crap.

 

Personally I have no problem with paying a deposit to get something special in to a store. I've never been asked for one but when I first moved here I offered it to be polite.

 

I suspect the fact you offered is a primary reason they didn't ask for one. It makes it clear you understand the guy's in business and you're making a commitment when you ask him to order something special.

 

[No, I don't own or work in a game store, but I do know business.]

[Killer Shrike]

Maybe its because Ive always lived in cities with multiple game stores, but it seems alien to me that a store would expect a deposit upfront for product -- particularly in this day in age. I mean, really, if its a hassle to get a product in person it can be ordered online.

 

I personally buy everything the HERO System puts out in a local game store becuase it helps HEROs and encourages the store to carry the product line, thus ensuring that it is on the shelves and browsable by potential converts. But Ill be honest, if it was a hassle I'd order it online.

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Wow. Sounds like they are operating in the red.

 

Nope. They are making profits and simply put it back into the areas that are selling - such as the clix. Until there is a bigger need for Hero, they won't purchase it. Afterall, you don't stock up on swiss cheese if 99% of the people buy gouda.

[Al_Beddow]

Hugh, I suspect you are right. I never thought of it that way..

 

 

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Maybe its because Ive always lived in cities with multiple game stores, but it seems alien to me that a store would expect a deposit upfront for product -- particularly in this day in age. I mean, really, if its a hassle to get a product in person it can be ordered online.

 

KS,

I live here in Spokane Washington, the east side of the state, sharing a crappy economy with northern Idaho. All Business is tight here, and the gaming business is even worse.

 

I explain the economy to the folks from Seattle this way:

"When it's good in Seattle, it's GREAT! When it's bad in Seattle it's still OK.

When it's good in Spokane it's ok. When it's bad in Spokane it's down right AWFUL!!!"

 

So, when someone goes to one of our two local gaming stores, orders something special, and then doesn't pick it up (pay for it), it's worse for one of our stores than say for a store in a city with a better economy (and more profits to help cushion taking a hit like that).

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Al_Beddow

Hugh, I suspect you are right. I never thought of it that way..

 

So, when someone goes to one of our two local gaming stores, orders something special, and then doesn't pick it up (pay for it), it's worse for one of our stores than say for a store in a city with a better economy (and more profits to help cushion taking a hit like that).

 

The player base will also have an impact.If the store has a big customer base, they may be more comfortable that someone will buy it, even if you don't. The popularity of the system would have an impact as well - the stuff he's sure will sell is probably already on the shelf.

 

And if half a dozen people ask him to order in, say, Ultimate Vehicle, he's probably going to consider a shelf copy or two for the guys who would buy it, but won't order it. [Hence, always ask your game store why they aren't carrying Hero products.]