Comic/genre "Ages"

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Stray Cat

Confession: I have only read the last few posts of this thread..

 

With the aforementioned disclaimer.. I thought mutants like the X-Men were merely the next step in evolution acc. to the Marvel guys. Not necessarily radiation accidents or what-have-ya.

 

I thought that Marvel even went as far as saying that there was a difference between mutants (X-Men) and mutates (Spidey, the FF, Hulk, etc.), or is that just the old TSR MSH game?

 

Cat

 

Take everything from that game with a boulder of salt.

[HeroGM]

Originally posted by Stray Cat

I thought that Marvel even went as far as saying that there was a difference between mutants (X-Men) and mutates (Spidey, the FF, Hulk, etc.), or is that just the old TSR MSH game?

Cat

 

X-Men = Mutant

 

Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic-Four = Alterated Human.

[Doug McCrae]

In X-Men #1 (1963) Professor X addresses his X-Men thusly:

 

"I was born of parents who had worked on the first A-bomb project! Like yourselves I am a mutant... possibly the first such mutant!"

 

It doesn't say anything specifically about the X-Men's parents being exposed to radiation, but I think the implication is that they got a dose from the A-bomb detonations in Japan and nuclear tests in the late 40s.

 

I'm not up on later developments in Marvel but is it not the case that in the late 80s, early 90s virtually everyone was a mutant (except Thor)?

 

Was it also determined sometime in the 90s that the preponderance of terrestrial superheroes was due to genetic tampering by the Kree? Aliens. Is there anything they're not responsible for?

 

So it seems the Silver Age X-Men were the result of radiation, but the Iron Age X-Men, like most other superheroes, were caused by alien genetic manipulation. The Unified Origin Theory.

[VictorVonDoom]

In the Ultimate Powers Book (MSH) there were a several Branches of different Mutants. By Rolling you could got "by accident" and picked "Radiation" but sometimes the radiation came from a different Alien source like the Celestials who implated the genes in some bodies, maybe they used radiation

but i like to follow the Silver age theory...

 

 

Children of the Atoms refers to the Atomic Age (In the Avenger Quicksilver calls him self a mutant)

In earlier movies from the 50 'THEM" the giant Ants were mutations of the radiation but they were critters not humans

The Hulk was born out of Gamma Radiation. So Mutants like the X-men are Gamma Radiated too; No..I don't guess so..

The title refers to the fear : indeed but not how they were produced.

Example Cyclops:

the parents are normal parents; Neither had suffered radiation...

 

The parents of Scott summers were stopped by the Shiar. Scott was abducted by Mr Sinister who trained him in using his optical blast. When scott fell the area of his head that controlled his Blasts was damaged hence he can no longer control his blast so he needs to wear goggles

He escaped Mr Sinister went to Xavier and in the Inferno aftermath he killed a MR Sinisterclone because the suppressed memory of been tortured helped him killing MR Sinister...

 

Beast got his mutation from Apocalypse before that he could simple jump and had no fur

Alle parents of the X-men were normal people... not affected by radiation

 

 

We are all Children of the Computer age : thus that makes us what Robots ?

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

In the Ultimate Powers Book (MSH) there were a several Branches of different Mutants. By Rolling you could got "by accident" and picked "Radiation" but sometimes the radiation came from a different Alien source like the Celestials who implated the genes in some bodies, maybe they used radiation

but i like to follow the Silver age theory...

 

Children of the Atoms refers to the Atomic Age (In the Avenger Quicksilver calls him self a mutant)

In earlier movies from the 50 'THEM" the giant Ants were mutations of the radiation but they were critters not humans

The Hulk was born out of Gamma Radiation. So Mutants like the X-men are Gamma Radiated too; No..I don't guess so..

The title refers to the fear : indeed but not how they were produced.

Example Cyclops:

the parents are normal parents; Neither had suffered radiation...

 

The parents of Scott summers were stopped by the Shiar. Scott was abducted by Mr Sinister who trained him in using his optical blast. When scott fell the area of his head that controlled his Blasts was damaged hence he can no longer control his blast so he needs to wear goggles

He escaped Mr Sinister went to Xavier and in the Inferno aftermath he killed a MR Sinisterclone because the suppressed memory of been tortured helped him killing MR Sinister...

 

Beast got his mutation from Apocalypse before that he could simple jump and had no fur

Alle parents of the X-men were normal people... not affected by radiation

 

We are all Children of the Computer age : thus that makes us what Robots ?

 

Look, if you want to go around confused about the whole thing, go ahead. Never mind that people who actually know what's going on have explained it to you.

[HeroGM]

And what I said was based on what people have said in interviews, people like Stan Lee who co-created the X-Men in the first place. It was also said in a silver age context. NOT the context that so called marvel writers have given it in the past 15 years.

 

And Scott Summers father was a MILITARY pilot who flew spy missions (yes, some retcon from the 80s/90s). So odds are at some point he may have come around radiation. WE don't know if he did or not, odds are he did.

 

If Doom wants to go by what's written in a rpg that his choice. This thread started with someone asking what kind of things broke down the different "ages" of comics and to me some of the big things were Monsters and Radiation. And if we're not careful he might start ranting that Doom really is a Dr. and graduated college.

[VictorVonDoom]

Listen people I know a lot of history on comic books.

I am not a college teacher. I am just a guy with great interesses in comics and sometimes i see mistakes myself and want to put that in the right perspective. (Did you ever read the triggereffect below? Well I wasn't joking about autisme; This is really ennoying people thinking that i am confused)

 

*Trigger activated: purpose : Silly thing happened

 

No I am not confused. Here i am TOTALLY in the subject and don't confuse me (yes YOU people) with your alternate theories how the Mutants have evolved. And it is about evolution (Darwin wrote a book about it);

I have a mutation too remember it... I know what it is... I need to go each year on a heart / endoscopic research ; each time they plug me at their machines and see how my heart is evolving (Marfan is a linked with the heart) and they jam a 250.000 euro Endoscopic device in my throat to see if i am alright. I take beta-blockers for my heart

So don't tell ME what mutation is . It is not from radiation period... cappisch

*Trigger solved

So i had to rant on that one... Still where was it told Scotts dad flew missions. (Issue...) ?? Where was that speculation that he might have gotten radiation

Theories of 15 years ago can change abit. Evolution also changed a bit. What we now know about Neanthertal people are far more than we knew it 100 years ago when we thought they were big apes...Now they are people

Why can comic evolve in some fasion? comics evolved from silver age to iron age so do we from prehistoric age to informatic age. So did we evolve? Yes...Why? Because we learned what the previous era gave us. So comic evolved to in that way: from monsters to mutants, from mad-sciencst to supervillans , from pirates to StarJammers, from mutant monsters to Mutant Heroes....

I know also abit about normal history..

 

PS Hulk was never a mutant...

PS I use MSH as my guide

PS you use Ultimate Power Book as guide?

 

[Kristopher]

Not all genetic disorders are mutations.

 

If the X-Men and their kind were just a stage of evolution, they wouldn't really be mutants.

[VictorVonDoom]

Evolutions evolved Homo Erectus in Homo Habilis and Homo Habilis (Inside Homo Habilis you have Neanthertaler and Cromagnon) in.

 

Marvel adds an new step: Homo Superior (Marvel)

Magneto calls them another race...

We are maybe as confused as the people are in the comics: are mutants freaks of nature or a evolution of nature?

Professor X looks at them as a stage of Evolution: look at the trailer of the first X-men movie: it says it...

 

PS my genetic Disorder is a mutation. If it jumps between several people of the family (now it is almost 30 people) it is def. a mutation. My mutation don't gives me any "advantages" only "disadvantages " and it makes me very limited

 

[Kristopher]

Victor, I'm going to be nice here and tell you that you're wrong about human evolution, about which homonids fit where and when in the scheme, and a few other things.

 

Cro Magnon were definately not a subset of homo habilus. They were, in fact, homo sapiens, just like modern man.

 

Neanderthals, there's some debate about. Were they a seperate species (homo neanderthalis) or a subspecies (homo sapiens neanderthalis)?

 

Re: Marfan's and mutation, From eCureMe.com: "Mutations may be seen in chromosome 15, but no single test establishes the diagnosis."

 

In other words, it's a disorder of a segment on chromosome 15, but it's not a single specific mutant gene.

 

[Stray Cat]

Okay... Doom aside...

 

Children of the Atom... The reference was originally about the *atomic age.* Not about radiation mutations in the parents of the X-Men. Yes there was atomic anxiety during the post-war years. All these monster and horror movies with an atomic theme... Not one of them dealt with the mutated children of someone exposed to radiation. They dealt with the exposed person directly. The worry over the next generation didn't come until later.

 

Are all the mutants in the Marvel Universe that aren't explained specifically supposed to be defaulted to radiation exposure? If that's what the writers at Marvel are doin, then I'm glad I stopped readin their comics regularly about ten years ago.

 

BTW Kristopher, your tone with Doom has not been pleasant. Mutations can occur spontaneously - without radiation. I'd venture to say that more evolutionary progress has been made due to spontaneous mutation than radiation exposure.

 

Cat

[VictorVonDoom]

My Marfan syndrom is a mutation. If i have a kid, 50 % of my children will have the mutation (Fibriline gen)

I know a doctor in Genetic research...

 

I didn't say the children of the Atom stand form been Mutated by Radiation > Chaos ;

Kristopher: do you have someone with the Marfan Sydrome?

Do you know what is like been in hospitals for more then 30 years? (i am 35)

 

I understand : Atom = atomic bomb but not Mutants are victims of radiations (or parents are victims)

 

Some mutation (like M.) is evolved by a mishap in the genetic structure on 1/600 people maybe more

So what if in MU that mishap gave them a flaw in a gen that gave them powers

 

Evolution is there in Marvel: how do you explain it? In MU everything is possible ... true...so what if it was evolution?

or aliens or radiations or ... a timetravelling maniac...

 

You have two sides here :

Evolution and new race or Professor X and Magneto

What do you pick?

 

 

 

 

[Powerhouse]

Adressing a few points:

 

1. Some people consider the beginning of the Bronze Age marked by a few events. One, in Marvel, is the Hulk issue where Wolverine appears (or perhaps, he is the percursor of Marvel's Bronze age). Wolverine's appearance is importance for what he will later be included in: the advent of the anti-hero in Marvel comics/ the hero who is the loose cannon and will kill. Also, he becomes the most popular member of the X-men, where Marvel becomes very socially conscious and uses the concept of mutant bigotry to explore other bigotry.

 

2. For DC, some consider it to start with Green Arrow/Green Lantern's attempts to be socially revelvent.

 

3. I would disagree that mutants are those whose parents were exposed to radiation. As the children of the atom, it references that the rise in background radiation had lead to increased mutations but most mutants do NOT have parents who were exposed to unusually high levels of radiation.

 

4. Origins are an interesting thing in the various ages. In the Golden Ages, besides bestowed powers, it was popular to get doused by chemicals. By the Silver Age, radiation was the thing. Around the bronze age, mutants and genetics were the rage with genetics continuing into today.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Stray Cat

Okay... Doom aside...

 

Children of the Atom... The reference was originally about the *atomic age.* Not about radiation mutations in the parents of the X-Men. Yes there was atomic anxiety during the post-war years. All these monster and horror movies with an atomic theme... Not one of them dealt with the mutated children of someone exposed to radiation. They dealt with the exposed person directly. The worry over the next generation didn't come until later.

 

Are all the mutants in the Marvel Universe that aren't explained specifically supposed to be defaulted to radiation exposure? If that's what the writers at Marvel are doin, then I'm glad I stopped readin their comics regularly about ten years ago.

 

BTW Kristopher, your tone with Doom has not been pleasant. Mutations can occur spontaneously - without radiation. I'd venture to say that more evolutionary progress has been made due to spontaneous mutation than radiation exposure.

 

Cat

 

Yes, yes. Mutations can be caused by radiation, chemical mutagens, copying errors, etc.

 

No, not all mutants in the MU are defaulted to readiation exposure. The exact details have varied wildly from writer to writer, as they so often do in comics.

 

Yes, "Children of the Atom" does arrise from the atomic fears of the cold war, so on and so forth.

 

From a genetic standpoint, the original mutation pretty much has to occur in their anscestors, whether that's the parent(s), or futher back. Most mutations would only result in a few altered cells over the life of the original victim. However, if the mutation occurs in the reproductive cells, then it can be passed on and will be present in all cells of any descendants who inherit the mutation.

 

BTW, my tone with Vic has been far more pleasant than my gut reaction to someone who is blatantly mistaken and just keeps talking.

[VictorVonDoom]

Maybe i said something wrong.

 

But all things aside, also our little word-match (what is a mutant) should we look in more themes in the comics ages then just mutants...I got a headace of it (and this isn't genetic)

 

please other theme same comic/genre/ages

 

you can pick from

 

-villans

-magic

-heroes (not mutants already discussed)

-SF influence in some titles

 

etc