gewing Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Frank Gotch, possibly the greatest wrestler who ever lived, according to some. He was a serious SUPERSTAR, drawing larger crowds than the Heavyweight boxing Champions. http://www.frankgotch.com/index.html A man who taught him a lot, and a legendary Strongman... "Farmer" Burns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_'Farmer'_Burns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Cool links. Learn something new everyday. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Thanks for the link. Gotch was one of the greats, and always will be. Of course right after him we started in on 'modern' pro wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. He was also (depending on which version you read) a pretty dirty fighter! According to one story he paid another wrestler to injure his great rival Georges Hackenschmidt ("The Russian Lion") just before their big rematch (the one that lasted under a minute, after they had fought two hours to a disqualification in their first match). At only 200 lbs (according to "The Book Of Lists") he was also a bit smaller than most of his rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. He was also (depending on which version you read) a pretty dirty fighter! According to one story he paid another wrestler to injure his great rival Georges Hackenschmidt ("The Russian Lion") just before their big rematch (the one that lasted under a minute' date=' after they had fought two hours to a disqualification in their first match). [/quote'] Was that Gotch or another wrestler? I'll have to check my own books to see. At only 200 lbs (according to "The Book Of Lists") he was also a bit smaller than most of his rivals. So if he were wrestling today, Vince would just keep jobbing him out to meatheads with no talent. BTW, anyone see Vinny Mac get blown sky-high last night? Heck of a waste of a good limo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Was that Gotch or another wrestler? I'll have to check my own books to see. So if he were wrestling today, Vince would just keep jobbing him out to meatheads with no talent. BTW, anyone see Vinny Mac get blown sky-high last night? Heck of a waste of a good limo. Gotch was the real thing, legendary world wide. I think he'd end up in the Strongman or Ultimate Fighting circuits, or working as a fitness guru, rather than in pro wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Who were the other 'big names' back then? I don't remember much of anyone past Gotch, Hackenschmidt, Jim Londos, and Strangler Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Who were the other 'big names' back then? I don't remember much of anyone past Gotch' date=' Hackenschmidt, Jim Londos, and Strangler Lewis.[/quote'] Ad Santel was the guy belived to be the one Gotch hired to soften up Hackenschmidt. He never held the title to my knowledge but did fight and defeat several judo fighters and claimed to be a Judo world champion at one point. Other names I've heard are Benjamin Roller, Stanislaus Zybysko and the Great Gama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Yeah all of those. Apparently both Hackenschmidt and Zybysko were multi lingual as well and B F Roller (another top wrestler of the era, who Gotch beat by getting two falls in two minutes !) was an M D. I think it was "Wikepedia" that suggested it was Roller who injured Hackenschmidt, but i'm sure that i've seen other information saying that it was Santel (as "Twilight" stated). Gama was apparently something special; National Champion of India at a young age and beat Zybysko in under 30 seconds when they met. I don't think that he ever faced Gotch or Hackenschmidt. As an aside, when I was doing my "All The Worlds Heros" project and wanted an Indian "brick" I created a super strong wrestler named "The Great Gama" to fill the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Here's what wikipedia has to say about the Great Gama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Gama I would also like to add that Gama's legend is is well known enough to inspire a wrestler of the 70's and 80's to name himself after him. One Gadowar Singh Sahota is well known to fans of Stampede Wrestling as the Great Gama Singh, dastardly leader of the Karachi Vice and devoted foe of the Hart Clan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Was that Gotch or another wrestler? I'll have to check my own books to see. So if he were wrestling today, Vince would just keep jobbing him out to meatheads with no talent. BTW, anyone see Vinny Mac get blown sky-high last night? Heck of a waste of a good limo. Well if Gotch were wrestling today he'd be a Light Heavyweight or "cruiserweight" or something like that. You have to remember that Pro wrestling, over the last 50 or more years , has concentrated on really BIG heavyweights(Guys like "The Undertaker"," Andre the Giant" and "Bam Bam Bigelow"). The wrestlers of Gotch's era (turn of the 20th Century) tended to be short and muscular and most only weighed about 210-224 lbs. So, while Gotch was a BIT smaller than average, he wasn't THAT much smaller. (I think that Hackenschmidt was quoted as being 217 lbs in the "Wikepedia" entry I looked up for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Gama was apparently something special; National Champion of India at a young age and beat Zybysko in under 30 seconds when they met. I don't think that he ever faced Gotch or Hackenschmidt. As an aside' date=' when I was doing my "All The Worlds Heros" project and wanted an Indian "brick" I created a super strong wrestler named "The Great Gama" to fill the position.[/quote'] The one thing I really like about Indian wrestlers is that their version of the championship belt is a golden mace*. Now that sounds classy. And if they're a pro wrestler, they can always take a heel turn by smacking their opponent with one when the ref isn't looking. * -- At least according to a bio of Joseph L. Greenstein, aka THE MIGHTY ATOM, that I read. As a very young man he apparently learned some wrestling in India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. The one thing I really like about Indian wrestlers is that their version of the championship belt is a golden mace*. Now that sounds classy. And if they're a pro wrestler, they can always take a heel turn by smacking their opponent with one when the ref isn't looking. * -- At least according to a bio of Joseph L. Greenstein, aka THE MIGHTY ATOM, that I read. As a very young man he apparently learned some wrestling in India. The mace is the symbol of the Indian version of Thor/Hercules. I posted a write up of him somewhere. Greenstein did do some studying in India, and was one of the first Westerners to study Judo in Japan. His breathing techniques and some of his breaking tricks were Yoga based (chain breaking). Almost impossible to find a copy of his biography these days; I have one, but wanted to get a second for my nephew and kept coming up blank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Ad Santel was the guy belived to be the one Gotch hired to soften up Hackenschmidt. He never held the title to my knowledge but did fight and defeat several judo fighters and claimed to be a Judo world champion at one point. Other names I've heard are Benjamin Roller' date=' Stanislaus Zybysko and the Great Gama.[/quote'] I have read a little about Gama, but know almost nothing about him. One of the ringside journalists at the Gotch Hackenschmidt fight SWORE that it was a fair fight, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. I have read a little about Gama, but know almost nothing about him. One of the ringside journalists at the Gotch Hackenschmidt fight SWORE that it was a fair fight, iirc. The first one you mean? Because the second time, most sources agree that Gotch tricked an injured Hackenschmidt into going through with the match so that he could have an easy victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. The first one you mean? Because the second time' date=' most sources agree that Gotch tricked an injured Hackenschmidt into going through with the match so that he could have an easy victory.[/quote'] The way I read it was that the second match took place because Hackenschmidt, his coach, and his doctor all thought the injury was no problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. The way I read it was that the second match took place because Hackenschmidt' date=' his coach, and his doctor all thought the injury was no problem...[/quote'] More like Gotch lied about being injured himself, so that Hackenschmidt would accept the second fight. Everything I read about it suggests he was going to back out of the fight untill then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. The writup on Gama (i think in "Wikepedia") said that he issued an open challenge to both Gotch and Hackenschmidt (and any other wrestler who wanted to have a go) that he could beat any 3 (I think it was) of them in succession in some ridiculously short length of time, and if he couldn't he'd pay them a considerable sum of money AND leave the U S A and not come back. Only B F Roller took him up on the challenge and Gama smashed him ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. The writup on Gama (i think in "Wikepedia") said that he issued an open challenge to both Gotch and Hackenschmidt (and any other wrestler who wanted to have a go) that he could beat any 3 (I think it was) of them in succession in some ridiculously short length of time' date=' and if he couldn't he'd pay them a considerable sum of money AND leave the U S A and not come back. Only B F Roller took him up on the challenge and Gama smahed him ![/quote'] Stanislaus Zybysko took the challenge too, I belive and was also smashed by Gama. I'm frankly curious as to why Hackenschmidt or Gotch didn't take him up on that offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. Stanislaus Zybysko took the challenge too' date=' I belive and was also smashed by Gama. I'm frankly curious as to why Hackenschmidt or Gotch didn't take him up on that offer.[/quote'] I don't suppose either of them needed the money and, in Gotch's case, he might have had to risk the title belt ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. I don't suppose either of them needed the money and' date=' in Gotch's case, he might have had to risk the title belt ![/quote'] True, though was Gotch the champion when Gama was making his challenge? Though I suppose risking the title belt would hold true for Hackenschmidt if he wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. No offense, but are we really hashing out a 100-year-old wrestling match? "Gotch cheated Hackenschmidt out of the title!" "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. No offense' date=' but are we really hashing out a 100-year-old wrestling match? "Gotch cheated Hackenschmidt out of the title!" "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did!"[/quote'] Not much of a hash out really. Everything I've ever read on the subject basically said Gotch did it. There seems to be very little doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. No offense' date=' but are we really hashing out a 100-year-old wrestling match? "Gotch cheated Hackenschmidt out of the title!" "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did!"[/quote'] Well the conversation HAS drifted a tad but I believe that the original context was the idea of Frank Gotch as a "Pulp Hero" character. Many of the other wrestlers of that era (early twentieth century) like Hackenschmidt, Ed "Strangler" Lewis and "The Great Gama" would also make interesting NPCs for a "Pulp Hero" game. In the case of Gotch there are differing stories circulating so talking about them helps to establish either of two possible characters for him, hero or villain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Re: Another real life character for the Pulp Era. No offense' date=' but are we really hashing out a 100-year-old wrestling match? "Gotch cheated Hackenschmidt out of the title!" "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did!"[/quote'] No, we're not. Lucius Alexander "Yes, we are!" exclaims the palindromedary at one end, and at the other retorts "No, we're not!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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