Resisting Flight

[mvoncannon]

Hey,

 

I would like some help on this.

 

5" Flight, useable as attack. How does one resist this? Or can it be resisted? What if the attacked character does not have Flight?

 

TK would be a Str vs Str.

 

Thanks.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

However the defense against Flight: UAA is defined.

 

Typically a Flight itself is defined as the defense.

But others could be used as well, such as weight of an object, another Movement Power (perhaps Teleport, or Gliding), Power Defense is conceivable (but rare), STR vs STR could also be used where every 2" of Flight: UAA could equal 5STR (as an example) for this purpose.

 

In short - the Defense defined should be based on the SFX of the Flight: UAA Power's Special Effect.

[Flames]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Using Flight as an attack is generally considered a munchkiny no-no. One it supposed to use TK instead.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Sometimes Flight UAA fits the bill a lot better than telekinesis. For instance, if your power is supposed to reverse gravity, or reduce the mass of the target so that they are lighter than air, TK makes little sense – why would a STR v STR roll matter: you could target Grond, and, once he is off the ground, he has no way of avoiding going up, up and away.

So, the first question you need to ask is NOT ‘what is the defence to this construct’, but ‘what power am I trying to emulate, how does it work, and is this the right way to build it’?

OK, that was three questions, but I hope you take the point.

If, for instance, you are reversing gravity on a target, the defences could be manifold. A DEX roll, at a penalty, perhaps, if you have quite a bit of flight – to simulate grabbing a bit of something fixed, so that you do not float away. In fact, why be that restrictive – defence 1 would be anchoring yourself to a fixed object, or an object that is heavier than you and not affected by the UAA flight. That might involve DEX or STR rolls at the GM’s discretion, and would require situational factors like something to grab. In a desert you would probably be stuffed.

Defence 2 would, logically, be having powers that affect gravity, so that you could disrupt the gravity inversion.

Defence 3 would be flight, which you could use to counter the UAA flight.

Defence 4, a bit of a catch-all, would be someone else with an appropriate power helping you.

The point is that if you define the power properly you don’t even really need to work out every possible defence – it should be obvious.

Hope that helps.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Using Flight as an attack is generally considered a munchkiny no-no. One it supposed to use TK instead.

 

While this is true.

 

As long as the possibility exists we should think of some logical Defenses for the construct.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Using Flight as an attack is generally considered a munchkiny no-no. One it supposed to use TK instead.

 

What munchkin designed Gravitar for Conquerors Killers & Crooks?

[Nolgroth]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

What about Knockback Resistance ( I think that's what it is called) defined as being super heavy or rooted to the ground?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

What about Knockback Resistance ( I think that's what it is called) defined as being super heavy or rooted to the ground?

 

Then you might need to compare the Flight UAA to a similarly constructed TK to see what it should be able to lift.

 

For more on this topic see the following thread:

Flight with Passengers - What's the Best Way?

 

specific post:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1265644&postcount=37

 

general thread:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52837

[Nolgroth]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Then you might need to compare the Flight UAA to a similarly constructed TK to see what it should be able to lift.

Not sure I would even allow Flight UAA in one of my games, but if I did, wouldn't KB Resistance translate inch to inch?

 

Falls under the "equally common and cheaper defense" metarule. At least I'd think so. It's all pretty hypothetical for me anyway.

 

Now that brings up the question of other Movement powers bought UAA. Teleport and Tunneling, EDM and FTL; if allowed would be nasty times ten. How do you prevent that from happening at the character level? The obvious answer is don't allow such a munchkin construct in the game. What methods would a character be able to purchase in a game where such things were allowed?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

Not sure I would even allow Flight UAA in one of my games, but if I did, wouldn't KB Resistance translate inch to inch?

 

Falls under the "equally common and cheaper defense" metarule. At least I'd think so. It's all pretty hypothetical for me anyway.

 

Now that brings up the question of other Movement powers bought UAA. Teleport and Tunneling, EDM and FTL; if allowed would be nasty times ten. How do you prevent that from happening at the character level? The obvious answer is don't allow such a munchkin construct in the game. What methods would a character be able to purchase in a game where such things were allowed?

 

Flight (or any other movement power as you point out) with UAA should be considered in the same light that TK NND would be. An appropriate defense needs to be defined from the outset.

 

I can think of one example of Flight UAA that makes more sense than TK. Storm of the X-Men. She can use wind to move people. Building this ability as Flight UAA allows the moving (throwing) distance to be defined separately from the mass of the object that can be moved. She can move several people as easily as 1 but might have a problem moving a car for example.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

What about Knockback Resistance ( I think that's what it is called) defined as being super heavy or rooted to the ground?

 

UAA powers have a weight limit, and I would expect a character defined as being very heavy to have taken an appropriate physical limitation, if the mass is permanent, or an appropriate power if it is not. This extra mass may well prevent the UAA power taking effect.

 

As for 'rooting', well, yes, that would potentially also prevent the power working, but it depends on what the UAA is supposed to do - how it makes a target fly.

 

Being attached to an immoveable object would certinly be a valid defence against UAA flight.

 

Clinging could also work.

 

I suppose, thinking about it logically, an unenhanced UAA power only affects 100kg of material, and that would mean, in terms, that regardless of the number of inches of flight, the 'strength' of unenhanceed UAA is effectively 10 - the strength required to lift 100kg of material.

 

I suppose anything that would be able to resist a 10 STR could be a potential defence BUT unlike TK, you would not be able to 'break out' if you were not able to either increase your mass, get to a heavy object, or flly out under your own steam, so going back to Grond, if he jumps up in the air and you hit him with UAA flight (assuming you can affect his mass), he is stuck there until you let him down. His strength just does not help him.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

.......

 

Now that brings up the question of other Movement powers bought UAA. Teleport and Tunneling, EDM and FTL; if allowed would be nasty times ten. How do you prevent that from happening at the character level? The obvious answer is don't allow such a munchkin construct in the game. What methods would a character be able to purchase in a game where such things were allowed?

 

 

....or don't worry about it

 

You can't FTL in atmosphere anyway. EDM UAA is very nasty, but presumably any GM who allows it will have sufficient villains able to overcome the power to still challenge the Hero, or will require sufficient limitations ont he power to make the game playable.

 

I had a villain a while back called Sender who had a variety of TP based powers, noteably a EDM UAA that could send an opponent 5 minutes into the future.

 

I'd probably never let a player have that, because it would be too unbalancing in most cases, but it worked beautifully for a villain.

 

Of course you might like the sort of game (and the Sender game was one such) where powers really can hurt, not just KO opponents, but kill them.

 

There was a villain called Shape who was a metamorph and flowed over opponents , drowning them (NND Does Body), and no one was allowed resistant defences except if bought as 'realistic' body armour, or if their powers called for it specifically.

 

In fact the PCs were all agent characters, so they didn't really have powers anyway, just huge guns

 

Blood everywhere. Great fun.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

What about Knockback Resistance ( I think that's what it is called) defined as being super heavy or rooted to the ground?

 

As for 'rooting', well, yes, that would potentially also prevent the power working, but it depends on what the UAA is supposed to do - how it makes a target fly.

 

Being attached to an immoveable object would certinly be a valid defence against UAA flight.

 

Clinging could also work.

 

As Sean says, it's all about the SFX. If the Flight UAA is winds lifting the target, that seems like extra mass or clinging would resist it. If it's EarthMaster raising a chunk of ground beneath the target, extra mass seems a reasonable defense, but how would Clinging help? If the character is reversing gravity, Clinging should help (as should Flight of your own), but extra mass should make the attack even more effective.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

hehe.... FTL UAA ....

 

"Grond threw him HOW far?!?"

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

This is one of the most unbalancing kind of powers possible, and I recommend from extensive personal experience on the matter that you not allow it unless it is extremely limited.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Resisting Flight

 

hehe.... FTL UAA ....

 

"Grond threw him HOW far?!?"

 

Reminds me of the old joke construct:

 

EDM, Through Time, Single Location: 1 Week In The Future, UAA, Linked to STR.

 

SFX: "I'm going to knock you into next week!"