Help with a magical contract

[BoloOfEarth]

In a little over a week, I plan to set up a situation in my Champions game where the heroes might end up turning to a villain group (the Alexandrian Order) for help curing two of their teammates from a magical affliction. In the process, the heroes will likely discover some information about certain Order members that the Order doesn't want out just yet.

 

To this end, I plan to present the heroes with a contract for them to sign. Signing it will magically bind them to abide by the terms of the contract. I don't mind if the contract has a loophole or two that the heroes might exploit (actually, I'd prefer at least one), but nothing too obvious. The leader of the Alexandrian Order, Codex, is not a lawyer but is pretty intelligent (20 INT). He wants the magical staff that was used to afflict the unfortunate heroes, and which the heroes will likely have in their possession. Codex also suspects the staff will be needed to reverse the affliction.

 

Thus far, I've come up with the following for the contract:

 

The undersigned do hereby swear a sacred oath to refrain from revealing anything about any and all members of the Alexandrian Order to anybody other than themselves or members of the Alexandrian Order. This restriction applies both to the words and deeds of the undersigned, as well as their actions and inactions.

 

Furthermore, the undersigned agree to allow members of the Alexandrian Order to keep all magical artifacts, devices, items, and/or materials needed to find and/or produce a cure for the Curse of the Basilisk.

 

The undersigned do also swear a sacred oath to refrain from revealing the existence or details of this pact to anyone other than themselves or members of the Alexandrian Order. Again, this restriction applies both to the undersigned's words and deeds, as well as their actions and inactions.

 

[space for heroes to sign]

 

In exchange, the undersigned members of the Alexandrian Order will provide all reasonable magical and mundane assistance in removing the Curse of the Basilisk from any and all affected individuals.

 

[space for villains to sign]

 

All restrictions enforced by this magical contract shall automatically cease after a period of sixty (60) days from signing has passed.

 

Just in case, I'd also like some help in designing the Power of the magical pact. I'm thinking a 4d6 Mind Control, Cumulative (4x maximum = 96 points), Continuous, Uncontrolled, Trigger (signing contract), 0 END; OAF Fragile (the contract itself), Target must sign of own free will (-1?), Effect ceases if contract is torn in two or otherwise destroyed (-??)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

The contract looks OK.

 

Possible loopholes:

 

Do the heroes sign their Super names or their real names? If the former, is the contract binding without their real names? if the latter, do the villains know their real names?

 

This also applies to the villains' signatures, of course.

 

What if there were another way to find or produce a cure which is discovered by the heroes later, and would not have required some magical artifact or another? Could the heroes now retrieve the items used, since they were not needed in order to find or produce the cure?

 

It might be interesting to place the Order in a situation where they despreately want, or need, the heroes to reveal something about them to a third party, allowing the heroes to point out that they quite literally cannot unless and until that contract is destroyed. [hmmm...a captured member of the Order with a susceptibility or dependence the heroes know about, but can't reveal to the authorities - meaning the character will likely die - could be interesting "But you can't lock me up without pomegranate seeds - I'll die without them! Please, tell them I'm not lying - I beg you!"

 

The contract would be voided if the heroes could find some reasonable thing a member of the Order could have done, but did not, in order to cure the curse.

 

Nothing in the contract precludes the heroes from destroying the contract, thus eliminating the magical compulsion.

 

"60 days" may be different in other dimensions and/or where time travel is involved.

 

Nothing in the contract precludes beating up the members of the Order, imprisoning them, etc. Mind you, nothing precludes the Order doing the same to the Supers.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

The contract looks OK.

 

Possible loopholes:

 

Do the heroes sign their Super names or their real names? If the former, is the contract binding without their real names? if the latter, do the villains know their real names?

 

This also applies to the villains' signatures, of course.

 

The heroes will be signing their Super names; I've decided that it actually only prohibits them from revealing info while they're in their hero IDs. In secret ID, they can call PRIMUS and reveal anything they want without breaking the contract.

 

What if there were another way to find or produce a cure which is discovered by the heroes later, and would not have required some magical artifact or another? Could the heroes now retrieve the items used, since they were not needed in order to find or produce the cure?

 

Absolutely. The affliction can be removed using the staff, but there's also a way it can be removed using non-magical materials. If the heroes figure that out, they don't have to give the staff to the Order after all.

 

It might be interesting to place the Order in a situation where they despreately want, or need, the heroes to reveal something about them to a third party, allowing the heroes to point out that they quite literally cannot unless and until that contract is destroyed. [hmmm...a captured member of the Order with a susceptibility or dependence the heroes know about, but can't reveal to the authorities - meaning the character will likely die - could be interesting "But you can't lock me up without pomegranate seeds - I'll die without them! Please, tell them I'm not lying - I beg you!"

 

Interesting and devious idea. I'm not sure how I'd implement it; the heroes don't know that type of details about the villains; but I like the idea.

 

The contract would be voided if the heroes could find some reasonable thing a member of the Order could have done, but did not, in order to cure the curse.

 

Nothing in the contract precludes the heroes from destroying the contract, thus eliminating the magical compulsion.

 

As to the first point, Codex actually has no problem with helping the heroes (he has a Code against Killing), so he's not going to try and weasel out of his side of the bargain.

 

On the second point, Codex will send a teammate away with the contract before starting to help the heroes. But if the heroes can find it, yep, they can tear it up easily.

 

"60 days" may be different in other dimensions and/or where time travel is involved.

 

Nothing in the contract precludes beating up the members of the Order, imprisoning them, etc. Mind you, nothing precludes the Order doing the same to the Supers.

 

Time or dimensional travel shouldn't come into play at all.

 

As to the beat-down, that was intentional from a GM standpoint, and sloppy thinking on Codex's part. But while nothing precludes the heroes beating up members of the Order (or vice versa), the heroes should still be prohibited from calling PRIMUS or the police afterwards, at least until 60 days have passed. Of course, that could be interesting.

 

(Pound, blast, thump) "Sorry we have to keep beating on you, but since we can't turn you over to PRIMUS for another 56 days..." (pound, blast, thump) "... well, we can't have you running around loose..." (pound, blast, thump)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

If I were one of the PC heroes, I'd be suspicious of the condition that the Alexandrian Order only be required to "provide all reasonable magical and mundane assistance." Who's to decide what's "reasonable?" I'd be more likely to accept it if they agree to "provide all magical and mundane assistance which does not directly harm any member or follower of the Order."

 

I notice that "all restrictions" automatically cease after sixty days. That would arguably include the Order keeping the artifacts needed to remove the Curse of the Basilisk. Of course they'll be long gone by then, but the heroes could legitimately go after them to recover those items.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

If I were one of the PC heroes, I'd be suspicious of the condition that the Alexandrian Order only be required to "provide all reasonable magical and mundane assistance." Who's to decide what's "reasonable?" I'd be more likely to accept it if they agree to "provide all magical and mundane assistance which does not directly harm any member or follower of the Order."

 

Good call on that. I'll change it to that, but with "... harm any member of the Order or cause such member(s) to face likely incarceration." One could argue that being locked up isn't necessarily harmful, and he doesn't want to be forced to, say, break into Stronghold to steal something in their evidence vault.

 

I notice that "all restrictions" automatically cease after sixty days. That would arguably include the Order keeping the artifacts needed to remove the Curse of the Basilisk. Of course they'll be long gone by then, but the heroes could legitimately go after them to recover those items.

 

Codex is willing to take that chance; he is rather greedy about acquiring magical items and artifacts. (Even villains have to deal with Psych Lims.) If he makes it too one-sided, the heroes won't sign it and then hand over the staff, so he doesn't mind them thinking, "It's okay, we'll just get it back later."

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

The heroes will be signing their Super names; I've decided that it actually only prohibits them from revealing info while they're in their hero IDs. In secret ID' date=' they can call PRIMUS and reveal anything they want without breaking the contract.[/quote']

 

I like that loophole.

 

Absolutely. The affliction can be removed using the staff' date=' but there's also a way it can be removed using non-magical materials. If the heroes figure that out, they don't have to give the staff to the Order after all.[/quote']

 

I'd take that one step further. If there was a way to remove it without the staff, then the staff wasn't NEEDED. Since it wasn't needed, the clause does not prevent them retrieving the staff afterwards, even if they believed it was needed and gave them access at the time.

 

Interesting and devious idea. I'm not sure how I'd implement it; the heroes don't know that type of details about the villains; but I like the idea.

 

As to the beat-down, that was intentional from a GM standpoint, and sloppy thinking on Codex's part. But while nothing precludes the heroes beating up members of the Order (or vice versa), the heroes should still be prohibited from calling PRIMUS or the police afterwards, at least until 60 days have passed. Of course, that could be interesting.

 

(Pound, blast, thump) "Sorry we have to keep beating on you, but since we can't turn you over to PRIMUS for another 56 days..." (pound, blast, thump) "... well, we can't have you running around loose..." (pound, blast, thump)

 

The second answers the first, albeit crudely. "Of course, if you were to rip up the contract, we could send you to a nice warm Stronghold cell rather than keeping you unconscious in our basement."

 

As to the first point' date=' Codex actually has no problem with helping the heroes (he has a Code against Killing), so he's not going to try and weasel out of his side of the bargain.[/quote']

 

One thing they could have done was use the non-magical approach that didn't require the staff, wasn't it? Could the fact they did not do so void the contract?

 

Of course, the personalities of the characters may play into this as well. Some characters may not be willing to violate the spirit of the contract even if the letter is flawed, while others may look to every advantage they can obtain. Hopefully you get some interesting role playing out of the matter. [Hopefully, you don't find out the villains have more integrity than the heroes in honouring the contract...]

[pinecone]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Good points...I was imagining some thing like "Attention! all persons hearing or watching this broadcast are hereby reserve members of super team X! Now, write this down!....

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

I'd take that one step further. If there was a way to remove it without the staff, then the staff wasn't NEEDED. Since it wasn't needed, the clause does not prevent them retrieving the staff afterwards, even if they believed it was needed and gave them access at the time.

 

One thing they could have done was use the non-magical approach that didn't require the staff, wasn't it? Could the fact they did not do so void the contract?

 

Hmmm... I should change the word "needed" to "used" or something similar, since Codex would suspect a non-magical approach may exist, and he would definately want to close that loophole. And if the heroes don't *ask* about some way other than using the staff, well, he can't be blamed...

 

Keep in mind that this is all pre-planning for next week; I have no idea if the heroes will even entertain the idea of a deal with the Order. But regardless I'd like to have the contract ready for them to sign (and like you said, I think there's some great roleplaying opportunities in this scenario).

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

By the way, thank you for the great feedback and suggestions. I've already repped Hugh and Pinecone, and tried to rep LL (but apparently I already did so too recently).

 

I'll rework the contract and re-post it tomorrow.

 

I also had a thought about the Power for the contract itself, since heroes' Mental Defense would be problematic for a small Mind Control. How about a 3d6 Mind Control, NND (Defense is signing against your will or signing a name other than one by which you're known), Cumulative (4x Max = 72 points), Continuous, Uncontrolled, 0 END, Trigger (signing contract; automatically resets), Difficult to Dispel; OAF Fragile, Effect ceases if contract is torn in two or otherwise destroyed.

[Steel Legs]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Seems to me there's to many loopholes. I really really don't like the "tear up the contract voids it" bit cause a promise is a promise.

 

I'd change "other than themselves or members of the Alexandrian Order" to "other than each other or..." Like, how can you not reveal your knowledge to yourself? OK, Multiform Amnesia, but like how else? Oh, and not "reveal," "discuss" --- more inclusive.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Seems to me there's to many loopholes. I really really don't like the "tear up the contract voids it" bit cause a promise is a promise.

 

I'd change "other than themselves or members of the Alexandrian Order" to "other than each other or..." Like, how can you not reveal your knowledge to yourself? OK, Multiform Amnesia, but like how else? Oh, and not "reveal," "discuss" --- more inclusive.

 

Well, I could remove "Fragile" from the OAF. Since it's about a 90-point power, that would give it 18 DEF, making it much more difficult to destroy.

 

As to the second part, yeah, I meant it as "among themselves," though "each other" would probably be clearer. If Squeeze and Sentinel both sign the contract, they can discuss it without a problem. Thanks for catching that.

[Outsider]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

If you're getting rid of 'Fragile' why not make this 'unbreakable contract' actually, uh, 'Unbreakable'? Set the unmaking condition to '60 days passage since the sealing of the contract'.

 

Also, the phrasing in the clause below :

 

In exchange, the undersigned members of the Alexandrian Order will provide all reasonable magical and mundane assistance in removing the Curse of the Basilisk from any and all affected individuals.

 

gives the AO an open ended committment for those 60 days. First, who knows how many people in the world (or the panolpy of dimensions) are afflicted by this curse... and all of them with a bit of divination are going to be showing up looking for a cure that AO is contractually bound to provide. Second, this seems like a dandy way to keep AO completely busy for 60 days, and bpossibly to really drain their resources. Figure out how long/how much it takes them to lift the curse, and arrange a number of afflictions of the curse that AO can just barely cure. If I were Codex I'd specify that my organization would cure the affliction only a given number of times during the 60 day life of the contract.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

If you're getting rid of 'Fragile' why not make this 'unbreakable contract' actually, uh, 'Unbreakable'? Set the unmaking condition to '60 days passage since the sealing of the contract'.

 

I'd like a second way for the contract to be broken, otherwise I can bet the players won't even consider signing it. I now think I'll keep it Fragile, but have two copies (one for the heroes, one for the villains), and specify in it that the pact is broken if *both* copies are destroyed. IOW, either both sides need to agree to break the agreement, or one side needs to get their hands on the other side's copy.

 

Also, the phrasing in the clause below (snip) gives the AO an open ended committment for those 60 days. First, who knows how many people in the world (or the panolpy of dimensions) are afflicted by this curse... and all of them with a bit of divination are going to be showing up looking for a cure that AO is contractually bound to provide. Second, this seems like a dandy way to keep AO completely busy for 60 days, and possibly to really drain their resources. Figure out how long/how much it takes them to lift the curse, and arrange a number of afflictions of the curse that AO can just barely cure. If I were Codex I'd specify that my organization would cure the affliction only a given number of times during the 60 day life of the contract.

 

The "curse" doesn't spread, however. It's a Transform attack that two of the player character heroes get hit with, along with a solo hero that the PC heroes often go to for mystic help. (IRL, two of my players will be out of town when I next run, so I'm making an in-game reason why their characters are unavailable.) I'm assuming the other heroes will capture the Basilisk Staff, but none of them know squat about magic, and their healer's powers won't undo the Transform.

 

Of course, the heroes *could* use the captured staff to turn other people to stone just to keep the Order busy curing them. ("Okay, here's the staff. Now fix Styx and Synergy. Oh, and when you get done with them, there's a few hundred people, spread across the country, that we kinda turned to stone, just testing out the staff, y'know? I figure it should take you two months to travel around and cure all of them. Happy trails!") That's hardly heroic, though I must admit it would be amusing.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Okay, here's the current contract (changed due to everybody's fine suggestions):

 

The undersigned members of S-Squad do hereby swear a sacred oath to refrain from revealing anything about any and all members of the Alexandrian Order to anybody other than each other or members of the Alexandrian Order. This restriction applies both to the words and deeds of the undersigned, as well as their actions and inactions.

 

Furthermore, the undersigned members of S-Squad agree to allow members of the Alexandrian Order to keep all magical artifacts, devices, items, and/or materials used to find and/or produce a cure for the Curse of the Basilisk.

 

The undersigned members of S-Squad do also swear a sacred oath to refrain from revealing the existence or details of this pact to anyone other than themselves or members of the Alexandrian Order. Again, this restriction applies both to the undersigned's words and deeds, as well as their actions and inactions.

 

[space for heroes to sign]

 

In exchange the undersigned members of the Alexandrian Order will provide all magical and mundane assistance needed to cure the Curse of the Basilisk, provided such assistance does not directly harm any member or follower of the Order nor result in their incarceration.

 

[space for villains to sign]

 

All restrictions enforced by this magical contract shall automatically cease sixty (60) days after signing, or should both copies of this pact be destroyed.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Do I correctly understand that the afflicted characters are incapacitated, and thus unable to sign the contract? That provides them, at least, with an out (although their teammates cannot TELL them about the contract).

 

As to the effect, what about a ransform that absolutely prohibits the characters from breaking the contract. The reversion condition is passage of 60 days or destruction of both contracts. You could also caveat that kt must be WILLING destruction of both contracts, so "find them, beat them up and tear up the contract" isn't an option.

 

"Oh No...We have to use our BRAINS."

[Outsider]

Re: Help with a magical contract

 

Of course, the heroes *could* use the captured staff to turn other people to stone just to keep the Order busy curing them. ("Okay, here's the staff. Now fix Styx and Synergy. Oh, and when you get done with them, there's a few hundred people, spread across the country, that we kinda turned to stone, just testing out the staff, y'know? I figure it should take you two months to travel around and cure all of them. Happy trails!") That's hardly heroic, though I must admit it would be amusing.

 

 

Not heroic on the part of the characters, if they go about stoning people without their consent. But heroic on the part of any people they might be able to find who are willing (either as a sacrifice for the common good, or for pay) to be stoned for 2 months to keep AO from doing anything nefarious in that time.

 

Having AO busy unstoning people for that 2 months would discourage the PCs from trying to void the contract though, as AO wouldn't be bound to unstone the victims anymore. If the PCs want to be able to weasel out of the contract, they shouldnt take this approach, though.