Damage for lightsabers

[JmOz]

OK, I know the build I want for Laser swords in my game, except for one detail, the actual dice of it

 

The build is

 

xD6 RKA, AVLD (vs FF), does body, 1 Fuel charge lasting 5 hours, OAF, Real Weapon, Str Min: 5, No range

 

Now in the world we have already seen a

 

2d6 RKA laser pistol

 

and a

 

2d6 DEF 4 Entangle gun

 

The light blades are suppose to be rare weapons

 

Most characters will have a 2/2 FF, so there is a common defense

[ghost-angel]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

2D6 let's it cut through all kinds of material pretty easily, I'd put it there.

 

Half the time I've seen lightsabers they've been used a Make-Your-Own-Door tool as much as a weapon...

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Yah, I'm leaning towards between 1d6+1 to 2d6. I'm concerned with making it to uber a weapon compared to the standard 2d6 RKA LAsers, but I do want it slightly better...

[eternal_sage]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

in my Star Wars game they range from 1d6 to 3d6 (each is an individual creation, so not all are equal) with AP. this works well in a game which is designed to capture the feel of the movies (Jedi slicing through opponents, etc) and tends a slight bit towards superheroic in power level.

 

so, i'd say 2d6 is good. oh, and slap on a Does Not Work Underwater, -1, for completeness, if you are going directly for lightsabers (some aquatic Jedi made special sabers for underwaterness, but they are rare). otherwise, i'd say the build is very similar to mine. which makes me proud, since someone basically agrees with me!

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Not really a lightsaber, just something similar for my "They'll save everyone of us" Campeign, but thank you for the info, glad to see we are on similar pages

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

thought about it, also going to have an auto reset trigger on it (When used to block), anyone know where besides 5er the new trigger rules can be found?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

I want to say a Digital Hero article. But I'm not 100% sure on that.

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Found it, issue 11 thanks

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

I'm thinking 2d6 sounds good then, my only concern is how much more powerful it is compared to the 2d6 laser guns the crew has, I mean 2d6 AVLD does body vs 2d6 is considerable, but on the other hand it is no range, so we will see, and if it is to powerful, well I can always arange for it to be stolen, damaged, or lost

 

I also think I will introduce a laser rifle that is also 2d6 but w/autofire, that should help as well...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

I'm thinking 2d6 sounds good then, my only concern is how much more powerful it is compared to the 2d6 laser guns the crew has, I mean 2d6 AVLD does body vs 2d6 is considerable, but on the other hand it is no range, so we will see, and if it is to powerful, well I can always arange for it to be stolen, damaged, or lost

 

I also think I will introduce a laser rifle that is also 2d6 but w/autofire, that should help as well...

 

Introduce it with a caveat:

 

You're not sure how 2D6 KA/AVLD,Does Body will work out in play. If it doesn't cause issues then it stays. If you foresee any problems or encounter any it will be reduced appropriately.

[Rick]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Here is how Lightsabers work in my Star Wars Campaign. This ends up looking just like a Star Wars film Lightsaber.

 

2) Lightsaber: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 ½d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Does BODY (+1),

Attack Versus Limited Defense (Combat Luck; +1 ½) (100 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1),

No STR Bonus (-½), -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-¼), No Knockback (-¼) 0

 

Description: This is the signature weapon of the Jedi. Elegant as it is powerful, often simply the sight of an unopened

Lightsaber can end a fight. The Lightsaber can cut through anything that isn’t ray shielded or has some sort of GM

approved force field. The only defense against the saber is combat luck. Strength does not add to damage nor does velocity,

however Martial arts DC’s do. There is also a special 6 pt. DC that only applies to Lightsabers (this avoids hugely over

powered unarmed martial arts). Against inanimate object such as blast doors the saber will do 6 body every active phase of the

wielder.

 

 

 

 

I should add "real weapon" to that write up.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Nah. Just make it 1d6+3 and be done with it; it'll be better than most weapons, people will likely use DCs to buff it up. Besides, you can then argue that the people who are cutting arms off & senates in half have at least 2 or 4 CSLs dedicated purely to doing extra damage (1d6 + 4 & 1d6 1/2 + 3, respectively). Why 1d6+3? For the simple reason you'll do anywhere from 4 to 9 points of damage reliably, which is part & parcel of the design, IMO.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

Here is how Lightsabers work in my Star Wars Campaign. This ends up looking just like a Star Wars film Lightsaber.*

 

2) Lightsaber: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 ½d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Does BODY (+1),

Attack Versus Limited Defense (Combat Luck; +1 ½) (100 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1),

No STR Bonus (-½), -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-¼), No Knockback (-¼) 0

 

*emphasis added and

 

No it doesn't.

 

You've forgotten a number of things, among them, you're using AVLD (Combat Luck?!) when in fact the defense is either The Force, a Force Field of sufficient strength, or another Light Saber, although in the Star Wars universe, there are no portable force fields portrayed, although I believe they showed up in KOTOR, they weren't the be-all end-all of personal defense.

 

I'm picking a lot of nits tonight, it seems, but this doesn't feel like you properly captured 'light saber' at all. Maybe 'energy knife,' but not 'light saber.'

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

If you're going to have Lightsabre's not add damage from STR or Velocity, then the base damage should probably be higher. 2D6 should probably be the absolute minimum damage a Lightsabre would deal and 3D6K would be a lot closer to how it performs in the movies. Of course, AVLD or NND goes a long way toward making it the ultimate melee weapon, but I think they do way more than 1D6+1 or even 1 1/2D6K.

 

Of course in my games, Strength (and Velocity) adds damage to lightsabres. I happen to support the "Spinning Forcefield" model of Lightsabre physics....

[Rick]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

*emphasis added and

 

No it doesn't.

 

You've forgotten a number of things, among them, you're using AVLD (Combat Luck?!) when in fact the defense is either The Force, a Force Field of sufficient strength, or another Light Saber, although in the Star Wars universe, there are no portable force fields portrayed, although I believe they showed up in KOTOR, they weren't the be-all end-all of personal defense.

 

I'm picking a lot of nits tonight, it seems, but this doesn't feel like you properly captured 'light saber' at all. Maybe 'energy knife,' but not 'light saber.'

 

Ahhh, ok. If you read the write up you'll see that they have no effect on objects protected by a Force Field (Like in the Films) and since when does the force defence a Lightsaber. Combat Luck is a common defense in a world where Jedi where robes.

 

So yeah it really does reflect the films quite well.

 

If you're going to have Lightsabre's not add damage from STR or Velocity, then the base damage should probably be higher. 2D6 should probably be the absolute minimum damage a Lightsabre would deal and 3D6K would be a lot closer to how it performs in the movies. Of course, AVLD or NND goes a long way toward making it the ultimate melee weapon, but I think they do way more than 1D6+1 or even 1 1/2D6K.

 

Of course in my games, Strength (and Velocity) adds damage to lightsabres. I happen to support the "Spinning Forcefield" model of Lightsabre physics....

 

Well, Martial Arts DCs add to the damage. I also allow characters to buy Deadly Blow. Even without the later, characters average between 2d6 to 2.5d6K ALVD. It Chops through EVERYTHING!!! Ony Jedi/Dark Siders and really Important NPCs have any Combat Luck. So the weapon is an NND Killing Attack averaging 6-9 body per hit (not including location modifiers). So yeah it is better than the other weapons in the game.

 

 

Guys these things cut through people and Droids like crazy. Your average enemy soldier has like 12-13 body (maybe). It rarely lakes more than two hits to nutrilize anyone short of an important NPC. A head shot is all but certain death, Limbs go flying like crazy and the weapons damage is just demoralizing. The Combat Luck simply makes combat with important villians more interesting and keeps the PCs from Dieing instantly when whereing robes. I've been using this write up or some variant for over 3 years, it works well.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

No, it really doesn't -- Combat Luck is just Armor with a luck effect. And you still haven't modeled that it can get blocked by another blade.

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

No' date=' it really doesn't -- Combat Luck is just Armor with a luck effect. And you still haven't modeled that it can get blocked by another blade.[/quote']

 

ok, AVLD vs FF or luck based F/x

 

The other blade is technicaly part of the Block manuever and does not need to be represented (other blocks are assumed to be against the arm or a matter of getting out of the way,etc...)

 

Actualy it is harder to represent the other things getting hit and being damaged than the other ones not...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

If I block it with a baseball bat, I'm done.

 

Unless I'm using a cortosis (sp) laced weapon, it's not stopping a light saber; the thing should be at least AP or PEN (or double AP if you really want to point out the fact it ignores armor, or Indirect (+1/4)).

 

I haven't tried to build my own; I'm still submitting this build is wrong.

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

If I block it with a baseball bat, I'm done.

 

Unless I'm using a cortosis (sp) laced weapon, it's not stopping a light saber; the thing should be at least AP or PEN (or double AP if you really want to point out the fact it ignores armor, or Indirect (+1/4)).

 

I haven't tried to build my own; I'm still submitting this build is wrong.

 

I will Take AVLD does Body over x2 AP any day of the week

 

10/10 Stormtrooper armor with 7/7 normal defense and 3/3 combat luck vs APx2

 

= 5/5 for armor(Double AP does not give any bonus vs non hardened defense)

+4/4 for normal defense

+2/2 for Combat luck (only has one level of hardening)=

---------------------

11/11 Def (argument can be made for it only being 10 but we will stick with 11)

 

AVLD vs Body, where the defense is FF or Dex/luck based defenses, same storm trooper

 

Storm trooper gets

+0/0 for armor

+0/0 for Normal defense

+3/3 for Combat luck

--------

3/3 Def

 

with penetrating the attack would be basicaly guaranteed 2 body assuming a 2d6 weapon

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

now one problem I have with the build is that if/when blocking occures

 

on the one hand, from a game mechanic point of view, they block, no damage is done but from an F/X based PoV damage should be done to the other guy's weapon (No matter which way the attack goes). However no amount of damage modifing advantages (AVLD, AP, Pen, etc) will change this fact, right now I am messing with a trigger or Damage Shield...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

That's why I suggested Indirect. I have no idea how I would design my own Lightsaber; it's a pain in the ass for just that reason; the only defenses against a Lightsaber that I'm aware of are:

 

-- A Force Field, but even that only mitigates the damage, if you follow the logic of KOTOR (still the best canon representation of the weapon yet)

 

-- A cortosis weave weapon/another lightsaber; the cortosis weave weapon, theoretically, stops the thing cold and takes no damage

 

-- It doesn't care about armor, it doesn't care about any normal style weapons, and it deflects blaster bolts. So... what else are you gonna do?

[JmOz]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

That's why I suggested Indirect. I have no idea how I would design my own Lightsaber; it's a pain in the ass for just that reason; the only defenses against a Lightsaber that I'm aware of are:

 

-- A Force Field, but even that only mitigates the damage, if you follow the logic of KOTOR (still the best canon representation of the weapon yet)

 

-- A cortosis weave weapon/another lightsaber; the cortosis weave weapon, theoretically, stops the thing cold and takes no damage

 

-- It doesn't care about armor, it doesn't care about any normal style weapons, and it deflects blaster bolts. So... what else are you gonna do?

 

indirect can not be used to bypass armor normaly IIRC

 

Reason 1 & 3.a is why I support the AVLD with Does Body, I would say if I was trying to perfectly represent the lightsaber the second one might be a -0 or -1/4 lim, probably -0

3.b (The blasters) would be putting it in a MP with Missile deflection

 

but we still have the "How do you damage a weapon that is used to block, and how do you decide if a weapon was used to block and not just avoided" issues, I'm thinking some kind of trigger may be the answer, or a damage shield (but that seems pricey for what it does, of course price is not an issue in a Heroic game but I still worry about it)

[Rick]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

No' date=' it really doesn't -- Combat Luck is just Armor with a luck effect. And you still haven't modeled that it can get blocked by another blade.[/quote']

 

I know what Combat Luck is. I don't really understand your issue with it being common for certain types in a world like Star Wars, that is what it is built for. It isn't armor though, armor is just the power used to achieve the effect of being lucky or hell even simply being on the move constantly. I know it is called Combat "Luck" but it is a great write up and I don't feel like re-inventing the wheel there.

 

As far as another Lightsaber blocking a lightsaber, that is simply part of the lightsaber. I could add it as a -0 lim but that would be a waste of time since a saber blade is an energy field of sorts so you could just read it under that Limitation. If another weapon is used to block it I would apply the rules I wrote up in the description. The weapon would take 6 body of damage and mostly likely fall to pieces.

[Rick]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

 

but we still have the "How do you damage a weapon that is used to block, and how do you decide if a weapon was used to block and not just avoided" issues, I'm thinking some kind of trigger may be the answer, or a damage shield (but that seems pricey for what it does, of course price is not an issue in a Heroic game but I still worry about it)

 

You could write it up as a Damage shield and or a triger. However as the GM I simply use my judgement and apply damage as I see fit. I believe the energy sword write up in Star Hero has the blocking damage built into it. Again I prefer GM descreation since the power is an AVLD it fits this particular SFX quite well. Remember Lightsabers are by definition "Unbalanced", that is the point though.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Damage for lightsabers

 

I know what Combat Luck is. I don't really understand your issue with it being common for certain types in a world like Star Wars' date=' that is what it is built for. It isn't armor though, armor is just the power used to achieve the effect of being lucky or hell even simply being on the move constantly. I know it is called Combat "Luck" but it is a great write up and I don't feel like re-inventing the wheel there.[/quote']

 

Armor isn't armor either. Armor is just Resistant Defense.