CorpCommander Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 How would one go about creating a cleric in a 75+75 std. hero game? I'd like to be able to turn undead. I am not sure how that would work actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I'm sure you'll see other suggestions, but the one that I've found easiest to apply is to give your cleric extra Presence, Offensive Only, Only vs. Undead. You can give the weaker, mindless forms of undead a Susceptibility to "holy" Presence Attacks allowing the cleric to destroy them outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I forgot, how does turning undead work exactly? Is that where you pray and it harms the undeads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I agree with LL above. Extra Presence- only vs Undead, is about the cheapest way to do it, as long as the GM allows 'Turning'. I would check with him, since its likely if he does allow, he has a way to do it already. When I've seen the Extra Presence, only vs Undead used, it also usally has the following two limitations- Requires Skill Roll- (Theology/Prayers/etc...), with Backlash, if you fail the roll, you are unable to attempt another turn for 1 hour, and become the primary target. Charges are also often commonly used, to limit the use of the presence to 6-8 times a day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I have traditionally designed my undead with the built in physical limitation: can be turned by a person with true faith. That way a person with the correct psych lims (who plays them properly) or a costly perquisite (10 Points). If thats too nebulous you could build them with the limitation X2 effect from presence attacks defined as power of true faith (uncommon, X2 effect), and then allow priests to purchase +30 Presence, Only To Turn Undead (-2) for 10 points. This option has the power of allowing the character to grow or reduce in "faith" (offensive presence versus undead) as their relationship with the great beyond waxes and wanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 what values would be good guidelines for the limitations? My world will feature lots of undead so "Only vs. Undead" should be maybe -1/4 or -1/2? Offensive only sounds like a -1/4. Does that sound good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 -1 for Undead only, even in a world with lots of Undead, (-3/4 to -1/2 for campaigns that will revolve around undead, maybe) is fair. I would suggest against using it as offensive only, since Clerics SHOULD have that back up Presence for facing the foul undead. Even if they fail to "Turn" the undead, their faith and divine inspirations should make them much harder for the Undead to scare and confuse with their own foul presence attacks. It also give the lowly cleric/healer a rare chance to REALLY have the spotlight for a change. Fighters, Mages, and Thieves so often get to dazzle and shine with their much more offensive abilities, its nice once in a while to have it all hinge on the Cleric. Scene: A mighty Vampire manifests out of the mists, and seizes one of the parties henchmen. The Cleric rises, brandishes his holy symbol and intones a prayer to his deity. The Vampire raises his eyebrows, and then breaks the neck of the poor guide, and gouges out his neck, and drinks deep. (The Cleric made his roll, but his Presence attack failed to do more then make the creature pause for a moment.) The vampire tosses the body into the campfire, and manifesting fully, roars an eldritch threat, eyes glowing red. (Vampy rolls good, getting +20 to +30 on every PC, except the Cleric, who resists completely, thanks to the extra presence.) The party, minus the cleric stands rooted to the spot, weapons half-drawn, shaking in their wetting boots. The Cleric, still infused with holy energy, begins to cast a Mighty Prayer, its up to him now.... Good stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Thanks! This is great advice. I haven't played hero in over 10 years so I am relearning everything. I haven't DMed a game in as long too. Its refreshing. Hope I can pull it off tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Re: what values would be good guidelines for the limitations? Originally posted by CorpCommander My world will feature lots of undead so "Only vs. Undead" should be maybe -1/4 or -1/2? Offensive only sounds like a -1/4. Does that sound good? Traditionally Presence purchased as "defense only" has taken a -1 limitation, so I was assuming the same for "offense only" As for "only verus undead" it should be adjusted for frequency, but unless you are running a "vampire" style game, or a game where the heroes are running into undead in every other adventure it would probably be worth -1. Otherwise I'd shoot for -1/2 or -3/4. Just my 2AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 typically "Offensive only" presence is -1/2 (I forget what the real name is for the Pre Disad). Defense gives a -1, I guess people expect Pre attacks to be less frequent..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Just as a point of reference: most published characters who have had Presence Limited to "Offensive Only" have taken a -1/2 Lim. This follows the design premise of the whole HERO System that defenses should cost less than the attacks they defend against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I was thinking of making it more of an area mind control thing (legal?), with a focus (holy object), or perhaps an invisible barrier that only effects undead. but of course a cleric should have extra presence against undead. By the way do demons count as undead? (is that a stooopid question?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 not rally a stupid question, after all undead could be created/animated by infernal/dammed souls. the real question is: how does the Gm see things? talk to the Gm before you limit your powers. perhaps a limit of "Only against supernatural evil "would be a better choice than undead especially when creating a D&D style "turn nastys" priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 AE mind control is certainly legal. Expensive, usually, but legal. Invisible barrier sounds like a PD Forcewall, invisible power effects, only vs undead. Undead will of course vary from world to world, but typically in my worlds Undead and Demons are not of the same ilk. The Undead would typically consist of wight, skeleton, zombie, ghast, ghoul, vampires, liches and others that were sentient biengs at one point. Demons start out as servants of a dark god, typically, and inhabit another plane unless called into this one. YMMV, - Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Undead vs. Damned Undead are specifically those things reanimated by necromantic magic. I consider reanimation as a disadvantage and thus identifiable in game terms easily. Being damned is also, most likely, a disadvantage! I would consider it one if I were damned at least. However it is different from undead. It is UnHoly in the same sense. Again, making it a distinct disadvantage puts it in identifiable game terms. For example. In the movie The Exorcist is Linda Blair Undead or Unholy? To me she is clearly Unholy and of course the other characters react to her state quite extremely! In the movie The Mummy, is the Mummy Undead or Unholy? Again, necromantic work was done therefore he's clearly undead. We don't know if he was damned at all. Now then, if you had a demon, who was killed and then raised again you could have Evil Damned Undead which pretty much would suck for the players! I wonder if anyone sells such a figure? Probably a silly concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Evil Damned Undead... Where's Ash Housewares when you need him!!! Nightshade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 hehe Where is Evil Dead 4 when you need it????? Surrounded by Evil, trapped in time, low on gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Ahhh but we _are_ talking about the infinite possibilities that are HERO! so being dammed and/or undead can be related or relevant or whatever. besides ill challenge you on The Mummy. Can you conclusively _prove_ that the Mummy was necromantially modified and not dammed? and if you go with V:TM all of the Vampires (the undead) are cursed by god therefore being Undead AND Dammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Damn you Unholy creature! (Oh, I repeat myself!) Originally posted by AnotherSkip besides ill challenge you on The Mummy. Can you conclusively _prove_ that the Mummy was necromantially modified and not dammed? The funnary rags used in the mummification process point directly at necromantic work. Knowing the lore of the Egyptians, the whole funary process was to protect their pharoh and give him eternal life on the other side. However, was he damned by the Gods? I am not even sure if Egyptian Gods damned anything! So, undead - absolutely sure. Damned or not - I can't say based on the evidence I have. and if you go with V:TM all of the Vampires (the undead) are cursed by god therefore being Undead AND Dammed. That I definitely can give you. The more I've thought about it the more I can see how something can be both damned and undead. My definition of undead is quite narrow though, perhaps more narrow than yours. To me, undead == reanimated. I think I better come up with concrete definitions of the limitations Undead and Unholy - thankfully they won't be needed for Wednesday's game allowing me to not rush it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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