A problem for missileers

[BoneDaddy]

This problem has plagued missileers of all varieties since Enkadu flung his aklys, and I'm not sure how to model it.

 

Take a ranged weapon master - an archer, we'll call him Hood. Hood has a longbow, but he can use any old baw and arrow. He has his own trick arrows, and some regular arrows. He can also do some pretty spiffy things with any old bow and arrow.

 

So, he has an OAF based Multipower with each power having charges, right? 8 charges of Entangle, 8 charges of exploding EB, 8 charges of AP RKA, etc.

 

Additionally, he has a skill based multipower, all with the OIF of opportunity, "any old bow and arrow", and an RSR: Archery tricks. +2d6 RKA, STR 20 TK (with some limitations), and so on.

 

As Mr. Henley so famously asked, "Are you with me so far?"

 

So, what about the charges? If he's out of arrows, Hood can't use the archery tricks. I'd even question his ability to do most archery tricks without doing the arrow's damage as well. What limitation is that? Can it be "Linked" to an OIF of opportunity? What sort of limitation is that? It's clearly a limitation, and a fairly strong one (I'd call it -1/2), in my opinion - he can't just use the TK without also doing damage, and he can't use it at all without the charges in another power. But, linked to a power that may or may not exist? Hokey Smokes, as Rocket J. Squirrel says.

 

What to do?

[Psylint]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Personally,

 

Put OIF bow of opportunity and OIF arrow of opportunity on the multipower

 

and linked "attack of arrow of opportunity" -1/2 to each "archery trick" (as they're likely to be the greater power).

 

 

Peace

[Talon]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

I'm not sure I see the issue. The way you describe it, you have...

 

Multipower #1: OAF Special Bow, bunch of slots with 8 Charges each.

 

Multipower #2: OIF "any bow", bunch of tricks with no Charge Limit.

 

Ah, you are saying that he needs arrows from MP #1 to perform tricks in #2. (Just as a reminder, the "+2d6 RKA" can't /add/ to an RKA in MP#1, since you can't combine different slots in Frameworks like that.)

 

If the game is such that it's acceptable to pick up arrows at random (so that he's likely to have extra non-powered arrows as needed), then I'd call it part of the OIF "bow of opportunity" and leave it at that. In a superheroic game, you could do that and have the special effect be that he almost always carries "enough" extra arrows to get the job done.

 

If you want to have him limited to the arrows in MP#1, then I think you have to buy Charges on the MP equal to the total number of charges in MP#1. (To offset the cost, buy "costs END" as well.)

 

I personally would not consider the "must do arrow damage along with a trick" to be a Limitation worth value if the character has a wide variety of arrows (he can always use a Flash Arrow or a Flare Arrow if he doesn't want to hurt the target). If your GM does consider it worth a Limitation, I would call it "must use in a Multiple Power attack with an arrow-based attack"...since in theory you could grab someone's Universal Focus bow and do the same tricks with it. (Or go into the nearest hobby store...)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Ayup. You don't use Charges in this case, unless he has "specially made arrows" -- so things like "Entangle" can be modeled as a specific arrow, or "OIF: bow, arrow & cord of opportunity" -- he can take the Extra Time to tie it together and then do his thing.

 

Of course, he's limited to the damage done by the weapon, but otherwise you're GTG.

[Mentor]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

This is where reality and SFX need to check in. Decide if a few arrows are laying around on the ground because that is how regular arrows work.

 

But, the PC, Hood, needs to man up a couple of points to allow for the possibility as well. It is a Multipower, after all, so surely the player can come up with a one or two point cheap slot allowing him to pick up use arrows and fire them. Activation 11-or some such.

 

I despised the old D&D approach that every time an arrow was fired, it broke, as I am pretty decent with a bow and know that such is not usually the case.

[Maur]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

I only recall that arrows that hit their targets were considered used up/broken. Those that missed had a chance of being recovered (got to be able to find the thing to get it back and might have broken on something nice and hard). Though this could have been a houserule.

[Psylint]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Mentor,

 

On arrows be "one shot wonders" How many times did you shoot into flesh or armor? Seems to me that a fair number would be nicked, chipped, or bent on the way in. Some few others would be broken by any target still living with opposable thumbs.

 

I don't know, I've never gone bow hunting nor committed homicide by bow, but I figure at least some of them wouldn't be in any great shape afterwards.

 

Peace

[Dust Raven]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

BoneDaddy,

 

I would recommend simply buying the Bow as you would, likely as a Multipower OIF and an OIF "normal arrow" slot, and a number of OAF gadget arrow slots as necessary.

 

For the trick shots, you can either add in an additional slot with Variable Advantage, and/or use the Power Skill to create an Archery skill you can use for the occasional trick shot using any of your arrows.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

OK, this requires a little understanding ont he part of the GM, but basically you have a MP with your special arrows, and they can be used with any bow of opportunity.

 

Bow and arrows: Multipower, 45-point reserve, all slots OIF (Focus - bow and arrow of opportunity; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

SLOT 1 Bog standard arrow: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6 (45 Active Points); OIF (Focus - bow and arrow of opportunity; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), 8 clips of 1 Recoverable Charge (-1/4)

SLOT 2 Entangler arrow: Entangle 4 1/2d6, 4 DEF (45 Active Points); 8 clips of 1 Charge (-1), OIF (Focus - bow and arrow of opportunity; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

SLOT 3 Exploding arrow: Energy Blast 6d6, Explosion (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 8 clips of 1 Charge (-1), OIF (Focus - bow and arrow of opportunity; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

 

22 points for the MP, and 2,1,1 for the slots. Total 26 points

 

Special Bow: Succor Bow and arrow multipower 5d6 (standard effect: 15 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), All Bow and Arrow MP simultanously (+1) (62 Active Points); OAF (-1), Self Only (-1/2)

 

25 points

 

Total Bow and arrow package 51 points

 

The 'normal damaging' arrows are on recoverable charges - and this is the bit that requires understanding - you can pick up ANY arrows that will fit the bow, whether they actually be the ones you shot or not - an arrow is an arrow, and it is up tot he GM whether any are recoverable anyway.

 

NOW, with your special bow (which is bought OAF rather than OIF, like the MP), you have a standard effect succor, which boosts the arrows from 45 active points to 60 active points.

 

So, you have 8 entangler arrows, 8 explosion arrows and 8 normal arrows (which can be recovered), which you can shoot ffrom any old bow, or from your special bow at increased effect.

 

Don't know if that was what you were after? I mean, cost wise it is not a great bargain, because of the 'special bow' cost, but it is not bad for concept realisation.

 

As for the Arrow Tricks MP, just buy it OIF, bow and arrow of opportunity. It is not linked to the bow and arrow MP, as such, but does require a bow and an arrow, and I'd happily let you use an arrow of opportunity as a charge from the MP. I'm good like that.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Sorry, slightly tangental, but I was thinking about this build I suggested and why it was so expensive. It costs that much because you can't build two multipowers which work together when you are using your special bow, but then I thought - well, you don't need to do you? You can do it with partially limtied powers:

 

Add in this:

 

 

6 Multipower, 15-point reserve, (15 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

1u 1) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2), 8 clips of 1 Recoverable Charge (-1/4)

1u 2) Entangle 1 1/2d6, 1 DEF (15 Active Points); 8 clips of 1 Charge (-1), OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

1u 3) Energy Blast 1d6, Explosion (+1/2) (7 Active Points); 8 clips of 1 Charge (-1), OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

 

 

It is NOT a seperate MP, but the same MP with a higher focus limitation on the top 10 points, but seperately built for clarity's sake. In essence you can use 45 points of power with any old bow and arrow, but 60 with your special bow.

 

That reduces the overall cost to 26+9 = 35 real points (60 active).

 

That is a bargain

[pinecone]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

I may not be following...But I'd build this as a MULTI-trick arrows, and ranged martial arts for "trick shots", buy the damage boost as Deadly blow: Bows.....maybe if you've got points left over buy a naked "Indirect+1/4" for extra tricky shots..."I turn and shoot away from Doctor Rotter, and it goes into the air duct, bounces 4 times, and...comes out the air duct behind him, then, hits the remote he's holding"

 

Personally I put the Indirect trick shot into the big multi...but I don't worry about scavenging bows when I play a "Super shooter" char (though I might start...)

[JmOz]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

HERE IS A RATICAL IDEA

 

Character buys his bow how he wants (My archer has his as a OIF & VarLim that he makes into a OAF, but we don't play 100% by official rulings so it is more powerful than it seems). This is on his arrows and bow

 

Give the archer Weapon Familiarity Bow, this is what lets him pick up a random bow and arrow and shoot it

 

But mr JmOz sir, what about all the cool things he can do, well my board mate can I suggest a purview of the Ultimate Martial Artist, the ranged MA goes a long way to help (something with disarm and target falls highly recomended). and as the man says there you go

[Thia Halmades]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Yes, but Mr. JmOz sir, that isn't how you model someone like the Green Arrow; yes, it BEGINS with all the nifty Ranged MAs & Specialty attacks. But it goes further than that; additionally, someone buying a 'disarm' Martial Manuever isn't going to be as effective as someone who buys "Pin Him to the Wall," Entangle, 6d6 6 DEF, Cannot Make Walls, Focus: 4 Arrows, Fired at once.

 

It's not that you can't achieve the same effect; it's the extensiveness of the effect, reflected in the cost.

[pinecone]

Re: A problem for missileers

 

Well, as I posted above (with minimum clarity)...you buy your cool Multi power arrow thing with focus lims etc...then you buy MA, and wf: bows, plus whatever for when you find yourself using second rate scavenged or mcgiver'ed up bows....so you're not As cool without the way cool equipment, you are still way awesome with your "I made this with my pocket knife!" bow, or something you grabbed off the shelf at S-Mart.....

 

as for "pin'em" buy your self a ranged grab manuver for your MA if'n you all hot for it... it's not as all powerfull as a Power....but it shouldn't be...Oh and Rapid attack/Sweep it...