Remjin Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I have to admit, I'm not big on reading the rules over and over, but I read this one and had it explained to me by two different people. All three of us are on different pages altogether. Could someone, in excruciating detail, explain how this works? I've got people telling me about a max of 1/3 body damage done total, but full body rolled being used to determine if the limb is broken... which needs to exceed 1/3 body? And that the attack ignores defenses except as defined (so a classic arm bar break is stopped by a reinforced or mechanical joint or whatever makes sense that would be unaffected by a leverage break). Another guy is applying defenses and hit location modifiers and then doubling the body after defenses to determine if the location is broken/disabled... which has to equal the full body of the opponent. I'm lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... There's a system for injured body locations with varying effects for head injuries, arm/hand injuries, body injuries and leg injuries. There's an optional system that says that any limb injury can inflict up to 1/3 of a target's body, to simulate that you can shoot somebody in one limb over and over, but no matter how much damage you do to one limb, including severing it, you probably won't kill him outright. (the shock and/or blood loss associated with it might, though) Jointbreak is a martial arts maneuver that does not take a specific hit location but is assumed to target a limb, inflicts killing damage and comes with the disabling property. I'm afraid that this is a matter that is addressed in a number of ways, some of which are contradictory in nature. You're going to have to figure out what level of detail and what level of 'realism' you want for your game to figure out which ones to use and which to discard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted September 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... There's a system for injured body locations with varying effects for head injuries' date=' arm/hand injuries, body injuries and leg injuries.[/quote'] I understand this part, and have read it, and realize its an optional system that can apply. So, on this part, I'm pretty clear. There's an optional system that says that any limb injury can inflict up to 1/3 of a target's body, to simulate that you can shoot somebody in one limb over and over, but no matter how much damage you do to one limb, including severing it, you probably won't kill him outright. (the shock and/or blood loss associated with it might, though) Okay, so at least we can confirm I wasn't on crack when I thought this and that I did actually read this at some point and that person wasn't on crack in telling me this part. Excellent. =) Jointbreak is a martial arts maneuver that does not take a specific hit location but is assumed to target a limb, inflicts killing damage and comes with the disabling property. Okay, do defenses apply to the maneuver? And, what amount of body is used to determine if its actually disabled, before or after defenses? That's my question on this part. The rest I understood. I'm afraid that this is a matter that is addressed in a number of ways, some of which are contradictory in nature. You're going to have to figure out what level of detail and what level of 'realism' you want for your game to figure out which ones to use and which to discard. As all things Hero... hehe. In this particular case its for a low powered superhero game with a degree of realism in which many of the optional injury type rules are being applied. The real question regards the use of the maneuver, applicable defenses, and what body is used to determine if the limb is disabled... the whole doubling versus whole body versus having to only inflict 1/3 of total body question, or another option altogether. That's where I'm a bit lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... For any maneuver that does not use his locations, but is assumed to hit a specific limb, it does not get Location Modifiers to the roll. It is applied to the appropriate defense, if any, and the damage is strait from the dice rolled unmodified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted September 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... For any maneuver that does not use his locations' date=' but is assumed to hit a specific limb, it does not get Location Modifiers to the roll. It is applied to the appropriate defense, if any, and the damage is strai[b']gh[/b]t from the dice rolled unmodified. Okay, so as an example... I do 11 body and 33 stun to a guy, he has rPD of 5, total PD of 10 (including rPD) and 10 body. He takes 6 body, 23 stun. Is his limb disabled? And what was the minimum I needed to disable it? Thanks for the clarification. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Okay, so as an example... I do 11 body and 33 stun to a guy, he has rPD of 5, total PD of 10 (including rPD) and 10 body. He takes 6 body, 23 stun. Is his limb disabled? And what was the minimum I needed to disable it? Thanks for the clarification. =) (thanks for the typo correction) Joint Lock: Assuming the rPD is the proper SFX to apply to the Joint Lock (usually rigid armor of some kind) - the maneuver may have no effect at all. If it does: 6 Body is through to count the effects of Impaired/Disabled. 23 Stun is applied. Impaired is if 1/2 your BODY Stat is done in damage to a single Limb. (in your example, the Limb is Impaired) Disabled is if your BODY Stat is done in damage to a single Limb. (this 1/3 business is a house rule). Joint Break: The maneuver is not NND, apply rDEF normally. The disable Element is detailed in Ultimate Martial Artist. For that matter, all of these maneuvers (Joint Break, Joint Lock/Throw), and related rules are all in UMA, not 5ER. Joint Lock And Related Maneuvers: UMA p147 Disable Elements UMA p156-7 I would suggest referencing those rules for complete understanding of how these maneuvers work and interact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Fifth Edition Revised, page 416: Impairing! Whenver the BODY done to an area (before or after the hit location multiplier) is more than half the target's total body, that location is impaired. So if you do 6 BODY to a dude's kneecap, and he is a normal sort of dude with the base 10 BODY, he's gonna be walking funny for a bit, even though the multiplier will knock that down to only 3 BODY (which, incidentally, is about the most he can take from shots to that knee if you use the optional limbshot cap rule). There's a table that tells you how much that sucks, and it works about the same as you'd expect. Broken legs make it hard to walk down to the store to get some band-aids. Broken hands make it hard to flip off the motorscooter what broke your legs. So on, so forth. On the next page, there are rules for Disabling. It happens when the BODY done to an area (again, before or after the location multiplier) exceeds the target's total BODY score. So your guy in the example above won't be Disabled, only Impaired, because at no time does the BODY damage from that attack exceed his base BODY; if you'd got him in the head, though, the damage would get doubled up to 12, which is more than his base 10 BODY. Dain Bramage FTL, doy. Disabling sucks even worse than Impairment; in a Heroic campaign, the effects have a chance of being permanent, which is why a lot of people handwave it in Superheroic campaigns. Hope that helps. edit: Doy, slow typing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead guy on tab Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Wouldn't it be disabled because under the description for the disable element it states "However, for purposes of determining if the attack was Impairing or Disabling, the BODY done by the attack is doubled." Therefore, 6 BODY * 2 = 12 BODY>10 BODY =>disabled limb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Wouldn't it be disabled because under the description for the disable element it states "However, for purposes of determining if the attack was Impairing or Disabling, the BODY done by the attack is doubled." Therefore, 6 BODY * 2 = 12 BODY>10 BODY =>disabled limb. You're right. Missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Wouldn't it be disabled because under the description for the disable element it states "However, for purposes of determining if the attack was Impairing or Disabling, the BODY done by the attack is doubled." Therefore, 6 BODY * 2 = 12 BODY>10 BODY =>disabled limb. Well, yeah, but that's a special bonus to the maneuver. The default for certain Heroic campaigns is that any attack that does sufficient damage can mess you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted September 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Well' date=' yeah, but that's a special bonus to the maneuver. The default for certain Heroic campaigns is that any attack that does sufficient damage can mess you up.[/quote'] Okay, I think I finally get it. Now, re-reading the rules while being in a decent state of mind should help as well. =) Thanks, everyone! =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Why does this entire thread from a player that has a HUGE freakin hand cannon worry me? As his GM, I have to say "EEP!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... Hrm. Martial Art, usable with handgun? Joint break, special effect: shoot target in the joint. NND, special effect: shoot the target in the throat. Martial throw: shoot the target in the foot. Martial Disarm: shoot the target in the hand. Martial Escape: shoot the target. Martial Hold: hold gun to head, say "Hold it." Martial Block: shoot the target in the fist. Martial Dodge: shoot the target first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... There are Ranged Martial Arts, you know. Gun Fu has a write-up in UMA, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted September 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Re: Jointbreak and similar maneuvers, I'm getting confused... No worries, Rapier, not for your game but that once a month thing I mentioned I'd try. Also, I liked the shooting martial arts description above. Hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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