Supreme Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 If this doesn't start a non-political heated debate, nothing will. HEHEHEHHEHEHE!!! I want to have a character with MASSIVE amounts of STR, and all that that implies: leaping, lifting, figured stats, etc. However, I don't want to do SICK amounts of damage. So what I'd like to do is make a character with a 60 STR purchased normally, then get another +30 or so with the limitation, cannot be used to do damage. The explanation would be that the character is SO strong that he lacks the kinesthetic sense to apply it fully when fighting. Thus, he can lift and leap at full capacity, as well as enjoys the full stat benefits, but can't punch or squeeze better than 12D6 (without pushing or doing a haymaker). What do you all think that limit would be worth? I'm thinking 1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Re: Brick Question Originally posted by Supreme If this doesn't start a non-political heated debate, nothing will. HEHEHEHHEHEHE!!! I want to have a character with MASSIVE amounts of STR, and all that that implies: leaping, lifting, figured stats, etc. However, I don't want to do SICK amounts of damage. [snip] What do you all think that limit would be worth? I'm thinking 1/2. Oh boy. Well, without taking into acount the leaping and lifting aspect, 30 STR gives you 33 points of benefit. (15 stun, 6 REC, & 6 PD) Would the character be able to throw things at full STR? While I would think not, it would be another consideration. I might let you get away with a -1/4 just because you're basing it on concept and not a cheesy ploy. I would think others might not though. The other approach would be is too make it a physical limiation. Always, somewhat impairing perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I would probably have to agree not to throw at full STR, otherwise I could get around the no extra damage clause. Only a -1/4? I suppose that's somewhat fair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 To my mind, it's kind of related to No Figured Characteristics (-1/2). Figured Characteristics are a big part of the value of Str. Since Damage is as big a part of Str as Figured Characteristics, or maybe even more, I would think they would have the same modifier. So, -1/2 sounds good to me. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 How about -1/4 Limitation. Does not add to DC of attacks. No +nD6 of HTH damage No +nD6 for STR when using HKA No +nD6 for SRT for crushing damage. I say -1/4 instead of -1/2 cause you are still getting the characteristic bonus and the leaping bonus and the lifting capasity. Just not the punch. That is just my $ 00.25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Strength bought with limitation, Does No Damage (-1). It affects your lifting and throwing distance, but not throwing damage. Because none of your figured characteristics do damage, you don't get them; you'll need to buy them up naturally to the appropriate level to simulate the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I'd go with -1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man I'd go with -1/2 agreed, if 1/2 is for no figured, but it still gives you the D6 and the leping and throwing, then 1/2 sounds perfect to take away that but keep the otehr parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by misterdeath To my mind, it's kind of related to No Figured Characteristics (-1/2). Figured Characteristics are a big part of the value of Str. Since Damage is as big a part of Str as Figured Characteristics, or maybe even more, I would think they would have the same modifier. So, -1/2 sounds good to me. D Almost Figured Characteristics Only. I'd give it -1/2, and that seems to be the consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Just to play the Devil's Advocate here, the damage component of STR can be hived off and purchased separately as a Hand Attack, can't it? Yes, we normally look at it as an EB with no range that can't spread, but it's just as easily "STR, no figured, no lifting, no leaping, no throwing, etc., etc. - Damage only, right?" So perhaps the cost of STR - no Damage should be the cost of STR less the cost of a Hand Attack that would otherwise have added the same damage. I acknowledge that's pretty low cost, but only because of the figured characteristics. Both STR and CON have the problem they add more points in Figured than they cost directly, but how many characters buy up either stat as a result? Not many. Why? Because they wouldn't otherwise pay for the extra figured Stats, and they can only sell back one of them! I can count on one hand (with room to spare) the characters I have who buy more STUN or END (beyond one or two points to round the character to a multiple of 5 points), and buying more than a couple of points of REC is pretty rare as well. PD and ED get raised all the time (in one form or another), but the other three stats tend not to get bought much beyond their figured amounts, at least in my campaigns and on my characters. Of course, this is why DEX really only costs 2 points each - everyone buys their Speed up beyond its figured number anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 I'd say it's a straight -1/4 limit. It halves the usefulness of the ability, but the figured characteristics are untouched. Going at it from a different direction, +1 of leaping costs 1 point, +1 PD costs 1 point, +1 Rec costs 2 points, +1 Stun costs 1 point, and (as pointed out above) +DC in MA costs 4 points, +5 STR in a MA maneuver costs 1 point. I'd say that "+5 STR, only for lifting" might reasonably be worth 1 point. Of course that means buying all of the benefits for +5 STR other than the damage separately would cost 6 points, or 8 if the character wants to use the STR for Grabs and Escapes. Life is hard. A physical limit would also make sense; probably worth 10 points or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireg0lem Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this already, but - check the rules in FREd on buying characteristics with limitations. Unless the limitation also applies to the figured characteristics (and "not to inflict damage" certainly doesn't) it automatically includes No Figured Characteristics. Thus, I'd say a -1 is more fair. If you want the figured characteristics, you've got to buy them seperately. Of course, that would suck because you'd be paying 48 points to get less than 30 points of stuff. Even at a -2 limitation, you'd get a similar result. Therefore, I would advise just buying the strength and then buying a physical limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Orange Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Side Effect: victims gain 25% Physical Damage Reduction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by Col. Orange Side Effect: victims gain 25% Physical Damage Reduction Hmmm...make the damage from the extra 30 STR "standard effect" (18 STUN, 6 BOD) and Side Effect - anyone strick gets 18 bonus PD, 12 of which is only versus STUN. Solves the problem, I guess. So that's a zero END Succor that buys 18 stat points, double the cost since they're defenses, 1/2 limit on half of them, so that's 6 x 2 + 12/1.5 x 2 = 33 stat points = 11d6 Succor at standard effect, side effect always happens so it's double value... Succor costs 5 points per die, right? So that's an 11d6 side effect on a 6d6 attack power - that STR will be pretty cheap, won't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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