dstarfire Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 I've seen this misconception a LOT here on the boards, and even in my group a few times: that the autofire mechanic for successive hits is a penalty. Actually, it's nothing of the sort. If ya read the description carefully you'll notice that it's more a level of success type thing. I don't know of ANY advantage that causes a penalty for using it. It's very similar to the 'level of effect' mechanic used for mental powers, except you don't have to declare the target level before hand, just how many shots you're attempting. Have any GM's out there ever allowed psl's for autofire? and if so; how did it work out, balance-wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" You shouldn't use PSLs. You should use CSLs. Though the 3pt CSL is sufficient for Autofire Attacks IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" You shouldn't use PSLs. You should use CSLs. Though the 3pt CSL is sufficient for Autofire Attacks IMO. Most characters could get away with the 2 ptrs IME for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Indeed, if they only plan on using it with one attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Indeed' date=' if they only plan on using it with one attack.[/quote'] or my favorite munchkin loop hole, one MA Manuever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Autofire isn't a Maneuver so that closes that loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Autofire isn't a Maneuver so that closes that loop. true but, and perfectly legal: Defensive Shot (ranged Manuever) is DefShot can be used with your Super duper blaster, you buy your CSL's with Def Shot and well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" I've seen this misconception a LOT here on the boards, and even in my group a few times: that the autofire mechanic for successive hits is a penalty. Actually, it's nothing of the sort. If ya read the description carefully you'll notice that it's more a level of success type thing. I don't know of ANY advantage that causes a penalty for using it. It's very similar to the 'level of effect' mechanic used for mental powers, except you don't have to declare the target level before hand, just how many shots you're attempting. Have any GM's out there ever allowed psl's for autofire? and if so; how did it work out, balance-wise? Emphasis mine. I do - damage shield, for instance, which removes range and prevents the base power being used as a direct attack, and it is not the only one. Moreover several 'limtiations' give substantial advantages - like being able to hand your focus to someone else to use. I'd require CSLs, not PSLs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Emphasis mine. I do - damage shield, for instance, which removes range and prevents the base power being used as a direct attack, and it is not the only one. Moreover several 'limtiations' give substantial advantages - like being able to hand your focus to someone else to use. I'd require CSLs, not PSLs I agree with Sean here on both counts; one of my major "corrections" to the system involve making Damage Shield its own power, in either Normal or Killing flavors, and removing all the chaotic mess that surrounds it. But yeah, you can buy 2pt CSLs, "Only with AK-47" and be done, and they'll always add to your OCV, and thus improve the total number of rounds you land with autofire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" I agree with Sean here on both counts; one of my major "corrections" to the system involve making Damage Shield its own power' date=' in either Normal or Killing flavors, and removing all the chaotic mess that surrounds it. But yeah, you can buy 2pt CSLs, "Only with AK-47" and be done, and they'll always add to your OCV, and thus improve the total number of rounds you land with autofire.[/quote'] Thread hijack incoming! My original reaction to Damage Shield was precisely that... "Hrm, this should be a power, not an Advantage!". Then I noticed I'd be missing out on some interesting Damage Shields... Entangle Damage Shield, Ego Attack Damage Shield (my mind's so chaotic, anybody who gets in there gets stunned!), DEX Drain Damage Shield (I'm surrounded by an electrical current which shocks you and makes you lose control of your nervous system if you touch me), etc... How did you deal with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Thread hijack incoming! My original reaction to Damage Shield was precisely that... "Hrm, this should be a power, not an Advantage!". Then I noticed I'd be missing out on some interesting Damage Shields... Entangle Damage Shield, Ego Attack Damage Shield (my mind's so chaotic, anybody who gets in there gets stunned!), DEX Drain Damage Shield (I'm surrounded by an electrical current which shocks you and makes you lose control of your nervous system if you touch me), etc... How did you deal with that? Here's how I'd deal with it: Damage shield +1/2 Can only be applied to a power that is already constant inherently or through the application of the 'continuous' advantage. Creates a damage shield (as the book). You can take the 'no range' limitation if you like. You can still attack normally with the power, but if you attack whilst maintaining the DS, you have to pay the END twice, as if you had two seperate attacks running simultaneously. That was DS adds but does not take away. If you want to take away, you get the appropriate limtiation cost break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" I'd allow PSLs for this effect: The gunner is so accurate in keeping the Autofire shots close together that he hits or misses with all of them, without making the overall attack easier to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Yeah, ultimately it's likely going to end with the same cost....+X w/ Ranged 5 each...Only for OCV, Only to cancel to hit penaltys with autofire...what else? I'm thinking if the cost comes out the same why worry what you call it....a rose by anyother name, yadda yadda..... If I call "Only for OCV" -1/2 and "Only to cancel to hit penaltys" -1 (might well be more...) thats -11/2 of lims for 2 pts a level if I call the "Only to..." -11/2 to -2 I get a value of 11/2 pts to 1 pt each....and thats well into the PSL range of cost...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maur Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" That is what the Autofire skills are for. Precise II changes it so that you get one shot in for every 1 you hit the target by (instead of 1 for every 2). Deadly allows you to add 1 DC for each shot that hits instead of rolling all the damage/locations separately. Each is 5 points and you can stack them all together if you have them all in one attack. I wouldn't allow for PSLs to be applied as there is no Penalty being applied to the roll to do autofire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" That is what the Autofire skills are for. Precise II changes it so that you get one shot in for every 1 you hit the target by (instead of 1 for every 2). Deadly allows you to add 1 DC for each shot that hits instead of rolling all the damage/locations separately. Each is 5 points and you can stack them all together if you have them all in one attack. I wouldn't allow for PSLs to be applied as there is no Penalty being applied to the roll to do autofire. Valid points...but I just don't subscribe to the "One right way" model for hero...instead there are many correct ways to do things.....all valid all correct, and (hopefully) all COOL! But I'm not gonna yell "Heritic!" if I see someone useing PSL's for this....I'll just see them as a differant build that is Labeled as PSL's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" If you want them just for Autofire ... personally 5pt Ranged CSLs, Only To Determine Number Of Autofire Hits (-1/2) is fair AFAIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" That is what the Autofire skills are for. Precise II changes it so that you get one shot in for every 1 you hit the target by (instead of 1 for every 2). Deadly allows you to add 1 DC for each shot that hits instead of rolling all the damage/locations separately. Each is 5 points and you can stack them all together if you have them all in one attack. I wouldn't allow for PSLs to be applied as there is no Penalty being applied to the roll to do autofire. Those skills are in Dark Champions, I'm assuming? Can't find them in 5er and don't have DC handy. In any case, Deadly doesn't do what I want, does it? The character can control recoil and aiming so well that all five Autofire shots will always hit or miss - but he's no better of a shot with Autofire than with a single-shot weapon. In any case, I could buy five-point CSLs, Only To Help Additional Autofire Shots Hit (-1/2 or -3/4, depending). It's almost the same thing. And I agreee that, technically, there is no penalty... but it sure plays out the same! So instead of using the above construct, I allow PSLs as a house rule, even though it's against the RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Scooped by Ghost Angel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Scooped by Ghost Angel! You aint the first...thats one fast typing Ghost I tell ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maur Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Those skills are in Dark Champions' date=' I'm assuming? Can't find them in 5er and don't have DC handy.[/quote'] They are in Ultimate Skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" Valid points...but I just don't subscribe to the "One right way" model for hero...instead there are many correct ways to do things.....all valid all correct, and (hopefully) all COOL! But I'm not gonna yell "Heritic!" if I see someone useing PSL's for this....I'll just see them as a differant build that is Labeled as PSL's.... HERETIC!!! What? He started it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Re: autofire "penalties" They are in Ultimate Skill.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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