Instant Unluck UAA

[Johannes]

I want some ghosts in my setting to have the ability to cause Unluck as an instant - and of course my players need to be able to buy the protection against it.

 

My thoughts so far:

It is mentiones somewhere that Luck Protects against Unluck, so the protective power would be 4D6 Luck, (-2) only against Unluck.

For causing Unluck i would use 4D6 Unluck, UAA, Instant, Ranged.

 

Problem:

Unluck/Luck is usually rolled once per session. As an repetitive Instant this would increase its costs dramatically - and the unluckprotection would still only work once a session.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Just roll it more often. No reason you have to do what the book says if you have a cool idea for your game.

[Psylint]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

What do you want the Unluck to do?

 

You can replicate a lot of "unluck" by things like -CV curses, or drains of various sorts. While it's a neat idea, a repetitive instant of 4d6 Unluck seems to present issues. After all, back in 5th ED, they said unluck was limited to 5d6 because anymore would likely prove fatal. If you're hitting, potentially the same target, with nearly that level of probabilistic bad karma, every few phases, that could get nasty.

 

Also, in general, I think the preferred construction is Transform: Target into Target with 4d6 Unluck.

 

Peace

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

As an aside, you're already in New Rule territory because Unluck can't be made UAA since it's a Disadvantage not a Power.

 

Psylint has the correct build to give something Unluck.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Easiest way to build 'unluck' (other than the granting of a disad, which is a Transform, which with enough dice is, effectively, an Instant) would be to build it as a Change Environment, "Zone of Misfortune" which will affect the players the moment they walk in to it. You can also do the obvious bits; drains and suppress and such.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I created a Curse power once that was actually a DEX drain with Invisible Effects so that the person would just have difficulty in combat, with dex skills, etc, but no idea why.

[Maccabe]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I agree with LOG, I always did Unluck generation as : DRAIN-DEXTERITY with LUCK SUPPRESS if you like. With a lower DEXTERITY a character would easily; start tripping over things, miss his targets badly,etc.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Yes, but CE has little or no Defense, and while the OP did specifically state he wanted defense against it, he can simply make the Defense 'Luck.' That, and I'm just a big, big fan of CE.

[Comic]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I like the Summon Unluck variation, since it so well emulates what I'm usually after:

 

It should be able to have fairly immediate effect, but should last with repeated, though different, actions following. It shouldn't work like the Unluck mechanic, but should have similar special effects. It isn't a disadvantage, but defenses should be things like Luck, Combat Luck, and Unluck -- what, you think Unluck isn't unionized?

[Johannes]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

The Power i would like to build is described in the Shadowrun Sourceboook Critter #7002 by FASA.

"The Accident power gives a being the ability to cause an apparently normal accident to occur. The nature and result of the accident will vary according to the terrain the being controls."

"The effect of the Accident power is not dangerous in itself, but the environment can make it so. Tripping on a narrow mountain ledge, for example, can be most unfortunate."

 

I don't think this power can be generated by pure DEX loss - since this would be clumsiness.

Accidents of wich i can think of are:

Weapon missfire. Backpack rips. Bird hits a flying baseball. The Kitchen catches fire. Your bike looses a screw. A falling nut hits your head.

 

I cant see a common ground of all these possible effekts. My setting does not depend on this power - shold i just drop it?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

10D6 Major Transform (Into Person With 2D6 Unluck; Heals back when Unlucky Event occurs [i.e. 6s are rolled on the Unluck Dice])

[Lucius]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

The Power i would like to build is described in the Shadowrun Sourceboook Critter #7002 by FASA.

"The Accident power gives a being the ability to cause an apparently normal accident to occur. The nature and result of the accident will vary according to the terrain the being controls."

"The effect of the Accident power is not dangerous in itself, but the environment can make it so. Tripping on a narrow mountain ledge, for example, can be most unfortunate."

 

I don't think this power can be generated by pure DEX loss - since this would be clumsiness.

Accidents of wich i can think of are:

Weapon missfire. Backpack rips. Bird hits a flying baseball. The Kitchen catches fire. Your bike looses a screw. A falling nut hits your head.

 

I cant see a common ground of all these possible effekts. My setting does not depend on this power - shold i just drop it?

 

Not necessarily. I HATE saying in Hero "that can't be done."

 

Technically, there is no way I know of in the Rules as Written to afflict someone with Unluck (In this circumstance, I think Transform is just ridiculous unless you're trying to give someone a long term curse.)

 

However, the rules do specify that you can give someone "negative skill levels" which is something of a precedent for inflicting something like unluck. I'd rule it costs END automatically, and of course it's an attack action. Also, if no ones come up, you're out of luck (so to speak) and the power had no effect.

 

Or, you can figure out how to graft Unluck onto Change Environment. I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

 

As for defense, I'd say anyone hit with it can roll their Luck + 1d6 immediately (so even a person with no Luck gets at least 1 die of defense) and subtract their number of sixes from the number of Unluck ones. Does that make sense?

 

EDIT:

 

Wait a minute. Just buy Luck, but with the "Usable As Attack" advantage. That automatically makes it an attack action of course, and in effect what's Lucky for you is Unlucky for an opponent, so that IS a perfectly legitimate way to buy an "inflict unluck" power. Of course, Luck is normally a "No Conscious Control" sort of ability at 0 END and Persistant; you can try to cost out all the modifiers to make it work the way you want it to, but I'd consider just handwaving it as "Okay, if it's got the Usable As Attack modifier it now costs END (or charges) and can be re-used at will."

 

Unless you WANT it to remain a "No Conscious Control" sort of "plot power." If I understand your source materiel, that may be the closest fit anyway.

 

Usable as Attack is supposed to have some kind of "absolute" defense, like No Normal Defense. Again I'd say rolling your Luck could be a defense; so could being under some kind of blessing, magickal protection, etc.

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that if it costs END, you can always Push your Luck.....

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Blackjack has a power of this nature; check out the character sheets at the bottom.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Once again, my "Disadvantages as Negative Powers" house rule comes to the rescue! Unluck is a perfect example of this as it is the one disad that is most obviously like a "negative power" because it's positive counterpart, Luck, already exists and works in the correspondingly opposite way. Thus the power you want is:

 

Dispel Luck (Cause Instant Unluck) xd6 - each 5 pips of effect gives the victim 1d6 of Unluck (or possibly removes 1d6 of Luck - this should be worked out in advance by agreement betweent he player and GM, based on SFX and genre considerations). Power DEF applies, as does Difficult to Dispel, and Luck will often serve to mitigate the effects.

 

Or you can use Suppress or Drain, if you want the Unluck to last longer than one instant.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

It's an interesting idea, but I'm curious as to the details. The ability to use a Disad offensively against someone else is significantly more powerful than the points indicated by the normal Disad costs.

 

How do you point such abilities? Disad + UAA + Ranged + ?, or something else?

Does such a Power cost END?

Such a power would presumably be Constant to function properly?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

You could always try Energy Blast, Indirect, Invisible Source (fully Invisible), Variable Special Effect, with somehow applying No Conscious Control to the VSE. Car comes out of nowhere and hits them, or airline "blue ice" falls from the sky, or they trip over their shoelaces (for 8d6!).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

How do you point such abilities? Disad + UAA + Ranged + ?, or something else?

Does such a Power cost END?

Such a power would presumably be Constant to function properly?

It works exactly how I described it, and exactly how I've described it every time I've suggested it: First, you treat Disadvantages as if they were "negaitve Powers", and then you buy an Adjustment Power (or Dispel, which is technically not an Adjustment Power) to affect them.

 

In this particular case, thinking about it some more, perhaps I should have used Suppress or Drain instead of Dispel.

 

So you want to give someone Unluck? Buy a Drain, 10 points per d6, like normal, Advantages* and Limitations** to taste.

 

* Such as Range, Reduced Fade Rate.

** Such as "Fades after one phase (or one Unluck Roll)", "Doesn't work if target has X".

 

Make the attack normally, if you hit, roll the effect dice normally. Each 5 pips of effect gives the target 1d6 of Unluck. The points fade at the normal rate (5/turn = 1d6 of unluck fades away each turn) or you can buy down the fade rate.

 

For a typical 60-point power, you could buy 6d6 of such a Drain, resulting in an average of 21 pips of effect = 4d6 of Unluck temporarily bestowed on the victim, whom you have to hit HtH to affect. It will then fade entirely in about 4 turns. Power Defense applies normally, like it would to any other Drain.

 

I keep suggesting this idea whenever someone wants to build a power that inflicts a Disadvantage on a target, but it can also be used to temporarily remove (or reduce) a Disadvantage as well. I've been using this idea for many years, and i find it works very well, and is well-balanced. You do have to watch for genre/plot considerations. For example, you wouldn't want someone to be able to remove Daredevil's PhysLim: Blind for the long term; short term, maybe. Some examples that I can remember discussing on these boards:

 

Grant Unluck (as above)

Render a Limb useless (PhysLim: One Arm/Leg useless)

Longer-term Blindness (PhysLim: Blind, Slower Fade Rate)

Calm down the Hulk (Aid vs. Berserk)

Relieve Fears (Aid vs. PsychLim: Any one Phobia)

Cause someone to Accidentally Change forms (Drain: Bestow Accidental Change, obviously)

Cause a Distictive Feature on a target (guess)

 

Also note that some disads should be considered "defensive disads" and have the Adjustment effects be halved, just like with Defensive Powers. The Defensive Disadvantages are Dependence, Susceptibility, and Vulnerability.

 

Also note that additional powers posessed by the target that are directly in opposition to the disad being effected will usually need to be drained off first, before the disad is applied. This is analogous to Draining STR from a 10 STR normal vs a 60 STR super. If you want to reduce them both to -30 STR, it's going to take more draining to get the super down that low, than the normal. So if you want to make a normal person blind, you drain/bestow the blindness directly, but if you want to make a super with lots of enhanced vision sense(s) blind, you'd have to drain those first.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Hmm...I allow Aid to be used to reduce PsyLims and Enraged to model "medication" PharmiTech in my MetaCyber setting, so Im not entirely adverse to the idea of allowing powers to interact w/ Disads in some cases, but using a Drain to impose a Disadvantage that a person does not normally have seems very unintuitive to me.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Hmm...I allow Aid to be used to reduce PsyLims and Enraged to model "medication" PharmiTech in my MetaCyber setting' date=' so Im not entirely adverse to the idea of allowing powers to interact w/ Disads in some cases, but using a Drain to impose a Disadvantage that a person does not normally have seems very unintuitive to me.[/quote']

 

I agree. In fact the reason I like the default Transform method is because Transform is the Power we use when we want to add something the Target doesn't have (for good or ill).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

...but using a Drain to impose a Disadvantage that a person does not normally have seems very unintuitive to me.

Fair enough. Though it seems absolutely intuitive to me, especially in the case of Unluck, since it works exactly the same way as the Power, Luck, only opposite.

 

What would you think of using a Drain to exacerbate an existing Disadvantage? Such as amplifying an Enraged into a Berserk, or magnifying a Uncommon, Moderate PsychLim into a Common, Strong (or worse) PsychLim?

 

Of course, I also allow Aid to add Powers that the target doesn't already have, in many cases, because I see no good reason to prohibit this. I find it to be a cleaner and more balanced build than Transform or UBO in most cases. Transform and UBO very frequently result in powers being inappropriately costed relative to their utility, IMO. Adjustment Powers OTOH, are usually well-balanced with respect to each other*. Allowing that, it requires no further "intuitiveness" to allow Drains to add Disadvantages.

 

*The only real problem I have (and only some of the time) with the balance of Adjustment Powers is in the "affects multiple powers/chars simultaneously" advantages.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I can't speak for Killer Shrike, but the reason I find Drain unintuitive is because you can't Drain something that someone doesn't have.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I can't speak for Killer Shrike' date=' but the reason I find Drain unintuitive is because you can't Drain something that someone doesn't have.[/quote']

Well, you sort of can in some cases. You can Drain characteristics below 0, even though that doesn't necessarily have an additional effect other than making it take longer to fade. But as I said, I also allow Aiding something that someone doesn't have, so Draining is no less intuitive.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Well' date=' you sort of can in some cases. You can Drain characteristics below 0, even though that doesn't necessarily have an additional effect other than making it take longer to fade. But as I said, I also allow Aiding something that someone doesn't have, so Draining is no less intuitive.[/quote']

 

Draining below 0 and Draining a non-existent thing are completely and utterly different concepts.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

I can't speak for Killer Shrike' date=' but the reason I find Drain unintuitive is because you can't Drain something that someone doesn't have.[/quote']

 

Yep.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Instant Unluck UAA

 

Fair enough. Though it seems absolutely intuitive to me, especially in the case of Unluck, since it works exactly the same way as the Power, Luck, only opposite.

 

What would you think of using a Drain to exacerbate an existing Disadvantage? Such as amplifying an Enraged into a Berserk, or magnifying a Uncommon, Moderate PsychLim into a Common, Strong (or worse) PsychLim?

 

Of course, I also allow Aid to add Powers that the target doesn't already have, in many cases, because I see no good reason to prohibit this. I find it to be a cleaner and more balanced build than Transform or UBO in most cases. Transform and UBO very frequently result in powers being inappropriately costed relative to their utility, IMO. Adjustment Powers OTOH, are usually well-balanced with respect to each other*. Allowing that, it requires no further "intuitiveness" to allow Drains to add Disadvantages.

 

*The only real problem I have (and only some of the time) with the balance of Adjustment Powers is in the "affects multiple powers/chars simultaneously" advantages.

 

Well, I've said before (though its been a few years) that the game should have a "Grant" adjustment power. Transform was beefed up to fill that niche and it does ok at it, but I do find it clunky -- particularly for short term effects. As I've said, its been a long time, but IIRC I did a write up based on 15 points per 1d6, similar to Transform and RKA and based on Aid UAA + Ranged + LOS not required to maintain. It basically worked like Aid except instead of improving an existing ability it granted xd6 effect of an ability the recipient didn't have. I didnt cover Disads, though its coverable with the same idea.