Converting Palladium to HERO

[Diamond_J]

I had been concidering GMing a Nightbane game for some time. Certain players were against using the Palladium rules and one player prefered the "intended" rule system. The one that didn't want to switch over didn't think the system would translate well to HERO's

 

With the conversion vote outwaying the Palladium vote I decided what I wanted to do was create extensive conversion guide of my own.

 

While these rules are off to a fare start I figured I'd post them here and see what the HERO comunity has to say. Feel free to add some ideas of your own

 

 
Palladium to HERO's conversion guide


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Created by Diamond_Jack
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Average hit points palladium
con plus 1D6 per lv average level 3, average stat 9-12, average roll 10
Average: HP 20 (Normal person)
average S.D.C palladium
usually around 15; 4-5D6 S.D.C
The average adult may have: 15 S.D.C & 20 HP
S.D.C is easier to accumilate then HP through class and physical skill 
bonuses.Use the equation below to convert hit points and S.D.C to Body.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BODY = X
     ______________________________________ 
X = 2\|(HP x 2) + (S.D.C x 1.5) + (CON x 5)  (square root)
         _____________________________________ 
System: BODY = 2\|(HP x 2) + (S.D.C x 1.5) + (CON x 5) 

Example: 
This is an example of a somewhat average level 3, N.P.C labourer with 
20 Hit Points and 15 S.D.C
BODY = X
   _  _____________________________________ 
X = 2\|(HP x 2) + (S.D.C x 1.5) + (CON x 5) (square root)
     _  __________________________________
9.6 = 2\|(20 x 2) + (15 x 1.5) + (10 x 5)
rounded up in favour of character: BODY = 10
                                   _ ________
SAMPLE CHART # = calculation before  \|  (square root)
----------------------------------------------------------
# | BoDY | S.D.C  Base PD & ED
----------------------------------------------------------
100 = 10 | 10 = 3
150 = 12 | 15 = 3
200 = 14 |  20 = 4
250 = 16 | 25 = 5
300  = 17 | 30 = 5
350 = 19 | 35 = 5
400 = 20 | 40 = 6
450 = 21 | 50 = 7
500 = 22 | 60 = 7
550 = 23 | 70 = 8
600 = 24 | 80 = 8
650 = 25 | 100 = 10
700 = 26 | 150 = 12
750 = 27 | 200 = 14
800 = 28 | 250 = 15
850 = 29 | 300 = 17
900 = 30 | 350 = 18
1000 = 32 | 400 = 20
1100 = 33 | 500 = 22
1200 = 35 | 600 = 24
1300 = 36 | 700 = 26
1400 = 37 | 800 = 28
1500 = 39 | 900 = 30
1600 = 40 | 1000 = 31
---------------------------------------------------------
Primary Attribute Conversion
---------------------------------------------------------
Basic PS    =  Use the Palladium lifting Chart and compare with HERO 

Heroes Unlimited Nightbane Beyond the Supernatural
Extraordinary Strength  = Convert using regular lifting rules and match 
    lifting capacity with HERO
Superhuman Strength  = Multiply Palladium P.S by 1.2 (Example P.S  
           of 30 = 36 STR) or convert lift as normal  
      whichever is highest.
Supernatural Strength = Multipy Palladium P.S by 1.5 (Example P.S of  
     40 = 60 STR in HERO) 

Rifts STR
Robotic Strength = Multiply P.S by 1.6
Supernatural Strength   = Multiply P.S by 2 
PP    =  DEX
PE    = - CON; may require some grandfathering do to importance  
  (Suggestion PE x 1.2 or more depending on game)  
 - For every 50 SDC ADD 1 point to CON
  If endurance is Superhuman/Supernatural/tireless ADD 1 to CON
  for every 30 SDC
- If P.E is Superhuman/Supernatural/tireless the minimum Con is 
  25, use whichever is higher after all calculations are made

IQ    =  INT 
MA    =  PRE
ME    =  EGO
PB    =  COM 
(Palladium also uses the paraphrase SPD, but it refers to land speed 
not the number of actions per turn)
SPD/2 =  Running Base up to 30 or use HUC speed chart to get mph then  
 convert to finde the same spd in HERO's. 
----------------------------------------------------------
Secoundary Attribute Conversion
----------------------------------------------------------
There are no secoundary attributes in Palladium which makes creating 
PD, ED, END, REC and STUN more difficult. For all but, SPD, PD & ED 
it's best to calculate figured stats by simply creating them through 
the primarey attributes.
Attacks/mellee = SPD 
END: figure as normal; Note: tireless characters may wish to buy        
strength and movement to half END (+1/4) or even 0 END (+1/2) cost 
REC: figure as normal
STUN: figure as normal

-----------------------------------------------------------  
       _  _______
Base PD & ED = 2\| S.D.C  (allways rounded down like HERO's SPD)
ADD 1 PD & ED for every point of Natural Armor rating above 10
ADD P.S/20 to PD & ED if strength is Extraordinary or normal
or figured from base HERO stats ignoring S.D.C as a factor, use 
whichever value is higher.
ADD P.S/15 to PD & ED if Strength is Superhuman or Robotic
ADD P.S/10 to PD & ED if strength is Supernatural
These numbers are added together then rounded down and directly applied 
as both the PD & ED stat. Either PD or ED may then be exchanged on a 
one for one bases. 
(See chart above)
_____________________________________________________________________
Talents & Powers 
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Resistant Defence: Calculate based on Natural Armor rating and S.D.C 
Natural AR
11 = 4
12 = 8
13 = 12
14 = 16
15 = 20
16 = 24
17 = 30
18 = 35
ADD 2 towards resistant Defence for the first 50 S.D.C character 
posseses then ADD 1 resistant Defence for every 100 S.D.C beyond the 
first 50. Depending on character this bonus may be relected as combat 
reflexes Talent, See below.
character requires natural A.R for this bonus.

Combat Reflexes: Auto Dodge; since combat reflexes represent the 
ability to evade attacks reflexively Auto dodge is a adaquit reflection 
of this power. 
-If character posseses auto dodge add 1 level of combat         
 reflexes for every 5 full points of physical prowess beyond  
  ten with a minimum bonus of 1 combat reflex level. - 
   or
-If the character has a low defence for the genra represented  
 he or she will recieve a bonus in the form of combat reflexes

 Hero's Ulimited & Rifts: PD conversion was less then 15 after  
  including body armor, Add 1 combat Skill level. 

 Nightbane: Total Defence is below 12, Add 1 to combat reflexes
 including body armor, Add 1 combat skill level 

 Ninja's & Superspies, Beyond the Supernatural: Total    
  Defence is below 8, Add 1 combat skill level
 Note: Use whichever method provides the greatest bonus.

 If deemed more apropriate for character GM may convert combat  
  reflex bonuses into resistant PD & ED (effectively Armor).
 In this way every 1 combat reflex level = 2 resistant Denfence

_______________________________________________________________________
SKILLS
----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Combat:
Take the Palladium Skill bonuses and do the following;
Add together; Damage, Strike, roll, Pull punch, parry, dodge, 1/2 auto 
Dodge (if applicable), Subtracting any bonuses gained from P.P and P.S
Add 2pts for gymnastics kick(if applicable), 2pts for any hand to hand 
damage enhancement(including kicks), and add 3pts for any other basic 
advanced, martial art or Assasine Techneque. If teqnique is listed as a 
power add 5pts to the total.
This number is the total pool of character points available for 
purchasing CSL'S, RSL's, PSL's, Damage Classes and Martial arts
techniques.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Standared skills:
This is more simple then it seems, as both Palladium and HERO tend to 
be specific with skill types.
Weapon Skills; are translated by ignoring the bonus to hit they provide 
and generalizing them as weapon familiarities. Keep in mind bonuses may 
be purchased using combat points pooled from combat abilities, as 
explained above. 
All other Skills; translate by finding the most applicable replacement 
for the Palladium counterpart in Heros then use the table below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Guidlines for translating skill percentage
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Percent system    minus system
----------------------------------------------------------------------
40% or less  =  Familiarity (8-)
41% to 50%  =  11-
51% to 55%  =  12-   
60% to 65%  =  13-
66% to 70%  =  14-
76% to 80%  =  15- 
81% to 85%    =  16-
86% to 90%  =  17-
91% to 95%  =  18-
96% to 100%  =  19-
---------------------------------------------------------------------
every additional 5% equals plus 1 to skill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: even though Palladium skill's cap at 98%, bonuses beyond this are used to offset penelties, much in the same way HERO does.   

 

If you like these rules you have my permission to use them expand them or change them anyway you see fit, just credit me for partial creation

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

It is necessary to do a mechanical conversion from one game system to the other, just to play in the campaign setting?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

It is necessary to do a mechanical conversion from one game system to the other' date=' just to play in the campaign setting? [/quote']

 

Well, this is my argument for much of Ravenloft, however, I've also gone to a great deal of effort to convert spells because I actually like the d20 magic system, so you know. 6 in 1, half does the other. I think that there's something to be said for retaining "the look & feel" of something, and if he takes the same road that I did (trying to import it) he may be more successful, or end up just as frustrated. Hard to say.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Well I think it is commendable when anyone makes the effort to come up with something, be it a conversion, rule, guidline or whatever, and post it for public anjoyment and edification. And I'm saying that as someone who has played Palladium Supers. Guys, if you think I've got a problem with Hero, you would not believe what I had to say about that system. I mean, you buy the 'growth' power (as in 'get big' not 'develop a tumour') and the amount of strength increase doesn't allow you to lift your own bodyweight.

 

Giganto: OK, I grow to 60 feet tall.

 

GM: Cool. You collapse and your bones start snapping...

 

Anyway, I'm getting off message: well done Diamond_J. Anything that persuades more people to play Hero is a good thing.

[The Main Man]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

For a long time I was trying to convert Rifts to HERO until I just gave up and decided to reinvent the whole damn thing from the ground up.

 

It was a learning experience to not convert the system, but to instead convert the idea.

 

If you want to see some of my ideas as well as others, just check out the Rifts HERO threads.

 

I first entered roleplaying with Heroes Unlimited and loved it, but HERO has been my brand of choice for seven years now.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

For a long time I was trying to convert Rifts to HERO until I just gave up and decided to reinvent the whole damn thing from the ground up.

 

It was a learning experience to not convert the system, but to instead convert the idea.

 

If you want to see some of my ideas as well as others, just check out the Rifts HERO threads.

 

I first entered roleplaying with Heroes Unlimited and loved it, but HERO has been my brand of choice for seven years now.

 

Heroes Unlimited, that's what it is called!

 

I also enjoyed it at the time: this would have been about 1985.

 

I don't think it stands up well to modern Hero though. Nostalgia is definitely a thing of the past.

[The Main Man]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

I'm not sure if it stands up to old HERO/Champions either, actually.

 

Is it no surprise that the only superhero system that has really given HERO a run for its money (M&M) came out less than a decade ago?

[Shaft]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Diamond J, at first glance, this looks like good work. Repped.

 

I'll have to dig up some old Heroes Unlimited characters and try converting them.

 

Other ideas I can suggest are a DC conversion.

 

The guideline form the guns seems to be that 1d6 in Palladium is about 2DC of damage.

 

9mm pistols tend to do 2d6 in Palladium, which is 1d6+1K in HERO.

.44 pistols do 4d6 in Palladium and 2d6K in Hero.

 

Energy Blasts start at 2d6 +1d6/level, so a first level hero's EB is 6d6, or 30 active pts. At second level, it jumps up to 40 active pts, or 8d6. Maybe factoring in advantages as the progression happens is a good idea too.

 

and so on.

[Knightgoblin]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

I would to see some prefabs done on the Powers Unlimited books or even the main book HU2. I'm not sure if the class could be done to add on, but that would be cool too. I love palladiums writing, but I am not so sure about the system.

 

Has any one done anything like this?

[Ocelot]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

First off, I think most of the above posters have adequately addressed the "Convert the Setting, Not the System" mantra. You would do best to follow it.

 

Second, not yet addressed: Kevin Siembada is definitely not down with conversions being posted: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/conversions.html.

 

Just so you know.

[FireTiger]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

...Kevin Siembada is definitely not down with conversions being posted: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/conversions.html.

 

Just so you know.

 

True. That's been the demise of more than one game product in the past. WotC's first book in what was going to be a universal supplement set, The Primal Order was one. And (though I might be wrong here) The Armory's RPG Data Con (Data Conversion Charts) was another.

 

(Palladium is like RealMedia in this regard, "Thou shalt not convert our stuff.")

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

True. That's been the demise of more than one game product in the past. WotC's first book in what was going to be a universal supplement set' date=' [i']The Primal Order[/i] was one. And (though I might be wrong here) The Armory's RPG Data Con (Data Conversion Charts) was another.

 

(Palladium is like RealMedia in this regard, "Thou shalt not convert our stuff.")

 

I say convert away. It's not like Palladium, in its current state, can afford to sue and Kevin's business practices are such that I feel no sympathy for him anyway. (If you want an explanation on that last statement feel free to ask. I just didn’t want the thread to turn into me ranting about Palladium) As long as it's not done for profit there's nothing wrong with doing the convesion.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

First off, I think most of the above posters have adequately addressed the "Convert the Setting, Not the System" mantra. You would do best to follow it.

 

Second, not yet addressed: Kevin Siembada is definitely not down with conversions being posted: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/conversions.html.

 

Just so you know.

 

An Open Letter, to:

 

Steven S. Long

Darren Watts

et al.

 

Thanks for not being this guy, and being openly supportive of the community. We love you for it, and it's why we're HEROs. I knew there was a reason I broke away from all other games and systems, and this is evidence as to why. Keep on doing what you're doing. I promise to buy as many books as possible and to never, ever troll the M&M boards.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

~DEM, aka,

The Lord Captain Thia Halmades

[Diamond_J]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

First off, I think most of the above posters have adequately addressed the "Convert the Setting, Not the System" mantra. You would do best to follow it.

 

Second, not yet addressed: Kevin Siembada is definitely not down with conversions being posted: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/conversions.html.

 

Just so you know.

 

In response to Kevin S on his site. It's not copy right infringement if ;

I'm not selling it/making a profit

not passing the original work off as my own

not publishing it

and not posting the Palladium rules in entirety

 

In short if you want the palladium rules you have to buy there books. No court of law would convict me, its true. Just like laws on parodies such as meet the Spartans, kevin has to just except this stuff and move on.

[sbarron]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

6 in 1' date=' half does the other.[/quote']Maybe you're just goofing around here, Thia. And if that's the case, the jokes on me. But just in case you're not, you're probably wondering what the heck that expression means. The actual phrase is "six in one hand, half-dozen in the other." Which I'm sure makes its meaning a lot clearer. Either way, no offense intended.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Maybe you're just goofing around here' date=' Thia. And if that's the case, the jokes on me. But just in case you're not, you're probably wondering what the heck that expression means. The actual phrase is "six in one hand, half-dozen in the other." Which I'm sure makes its meaning a lot clearer. Either way, no offense intended. [/quote']

 

I thought it was just "Six of one, half a dozen of the other", which also works as "same difference" me thinks

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Maybe you're just goofing around here' date=' Thia. And if that's the case, the jokes on me. But just in case you're not, you're probably wondering what the heck that expression means. The actual phrase is "six in one hand, half-dozen in the other." Which I'm sure makes its meaning a lot clearer. Either way, no offense intended. [/quote']

 

I repped him for it. In my neck of the woods, it was/is "Six of one, half a dozen of the other".

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Maybe you're just goofing around here' date=' Thia. And if that's the case, the jokes on me. But just in case you're not, you're probably wondering what the heck that expression means. The actual phrase is "six in one hand, half-dozen in the other." Which I'm sure makes its meaning a lot clearer. Either way, no offense intended. [/quote']

 

*chuckle*

 

I'm well aware of the original meaning, SBarron -- "Six in one hand, a half dozen the other" -- but I say it so often that I've basically corrupted it into my own short hand, so when I say it, it sounds as though I've said, "Six in one, half does the other," where "does" is actually "doz," an abbreviated form of 'dozen.'

 

The joke is, in fact, on you.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Wow, we sure went off topic

 

Anyways, I say as other do don't do straight up conversions. Instead, look at generally what the PCC's and RCC's do, then do a general conversion into package deals, kinda like what killer shrike's done with the dnd classes. Don't say this stat converts into this much of this stat, do "well, it's based offensively, so I'll give it some offense". Gosh is that bland and vague, but I'm not sure how else to put it.

 

And honestly, only convert what you'll need unless you have fun converting and/or want it to be a resource for other people.

 

So yeah, summed up, make some package deals that get the flavor of the classes, especially since the classes from palladium aren't exactly balanced anyway, if I recall correctly, so you'll actually end up balancing them by doing this.

[brionl]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

I've always liked his settings, since the original Mechnoids: Invasion. I'd rather gargle fuming nitric acid than run a game using the gawd-awful Pallidium system though. It's not just MDC, the whole thing is just plain bad and wrong.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Well, let's save the bashing for another thread. Diamond Spear still owes me a copy of that book, since he made me promise to help him convert the damn material.

[The Main Man]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

I swear that every Rifts book could be collected together and boiled down to a single HERO book that would be the size of Fantasy HERO at the most.

[Diamond_J]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

I swear that every Rifts book could be collected together and boiled down to a single HERO book that would be the size of Fantasy HERO at the most.

 

At it's fundamental core the Palladium system is really a modified expanded version of Advanced D&D. Only I'd state that AD&D works better for what it does. It uses the old percentile system and awards bonuses for stats 16 and above. It has classes and levels, you can tell there's a heavy influence.

 

Kevin S has a tendency to reprint information in his books. He states that it's for easy reference but it just seems lazy and cheap.

 

Each of the palladium Universe books are retread of the same rules tweaked ever so slightly. They need to do what everybody else does and bring out a separate all encompassing rule book. It's like you said you could condense all the Palladium GM Conversion and rule books down to one HERO book which would be smaller then the actual core HERO rules.

[The Main Man]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

At it's fundamental core the Palladium system is really a modified expanded version of Advanced D&D. Only I'd state that AD&D works better for what it does. It uses the old percentile system and awards bonuses for stats 16 and above. It has classes and levels, you can tell there's a heavy influence.

 

Kevin S has a tendency to reprint information in his books. He states that it's for easy reference but it just seems lazy and cheap.

 

Each of the palladium Universe books are retread of the same rules tweaked ever so slightly. They need to do what everybody else does and bring out a separate all encompassing rule book. It's like you said you could condense all the Palladium GM Conversion and rule books down to one HERO book which would be smaller then the actual core HERO rules.

 

Palladium runs fine if you don't stop to analyze the mechanical efficiency and balance issues.

 

If Palladium ever recovers, then I say that they should catch up with the RPG industry by starting over with a clean slate.

 

The unfortunate thing is that such a suggestion seems close to impossible with them.

 

Of course if I ran Palladium I would just alter it to HERO.

 

Palladium Fantasy, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, Nightbane, After the Bomb, Splicers, Beyond the Supernatural, Systems Crash, Advanced Recon Combat, Ninjas & Superspies; all of them would benefit from the HERO treatment.

 

Palladium Fantasy can easily be its own High Fantasy setting.

 

Rifts would make a great answer to GURPS's "Infinite Worlds" setting.

 

Heroes Unlimited has all kinds of superpowers that can be converted and can just as easily be assimilated into the Champions Universe (Gramercy Island can be a new super-prison while Century Station can be a new city).

 

Nightbane can easily be an Urban Fantasy HERO setting.

 

After the Bomb = After the Blast (Post Apocalyptic HERO); It's already happened!

 

Beyond the Supernatural is just Horror HERO, while Advanced Recon Combat and Ninjas & Superspies are both just Dark Champions.

 

Systems Crash is another easy Post-Apocalyptic HERO campaign.

 

Splicers would be a decent dystopia.

 

Now what's the only problem with all of this, assuming it happened in any way?

 

Palladium is crude oil. HERO is the refinery.

 

 

 

 

And no, I am not suggesting that DOJ absorb Palladium or even merge.

 

I am shedding perspective on Palladium's numerous campaign settings in a HERO light.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Converting Palladium to HERO

 

Well I sure wouldn't mind it if someone else took over for settings, because as you said, they are really fun settings, but the books are too filled with bloat. HERO taking over some of them would be spiffy, even tho I know THAT will never happen, but it's fun to dream about!