how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

[Alibear]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

I'm just picturing normal people standing still long enough to haymaker Angry GodMan.

 

"Oh bugger, missed!"

 

"So puny mortal" with a now convenient O DCV "take this upprecut."

 

Normals head comes off spinning through several gory panels. Angry GodMan gets rolls high on his presence attack (hard not to with all those extra dice after that last attck) and kills or maims all the rest of the goons in short order.

 

Nah, it takes a special kind of psycho willing to take on The Gods and normal cops aren't it imho.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Your correct I don't aim for Angry Godman I aim for his hex.

 

Law Rocket Launcher EX Haymaker maneuver FTW!

 

Angry Godman only creates an arms race... bad GMing skills FTL

 

 

It is the purpose of business to sell what people need, want or desire. If people need want or desire a better BANG! to protect their buck you be rest assured that someone will build one to take that buck.

[Zed-F]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Nah, it takes a special kind of psycho willing to take on The Gods and normal cops aren't it imho.

I'd be willing to bet the Special Forces would be willing to take it on, if they had to. And would stand at least some chance of being able to pull it off. Whether you believe in things like coordinated multiple attacker bonus, AP ammunition, anti-vehicular ordinance, deliberate killshots, surprise attacks, researching an opponent's weaknesses, tactics, etc... or not, and provide the special forces with ultratech weapons instead.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Allow me to state this a better way.

 

The real world natural result of bullet proof villains is a better bullet for a better price. By making your villains bullet proof (high resistant def) your end result is an arms race for your HERO's. It's better to just only allow for lower resistant def like 9-14 and be done with it otherwise every one of your HERO's becomes based on Drains Transforms, Suppress, and Find Weakness powers. Thats what 28 years of playing champions has taught me. Champions can be so much more without invincible man ruining your game.

 

 

Interesting 28 years of playing champions has taught me a completely different lesson. The real world result ( and I don't actually agree there or we'd have tons higher tech weapons in the real world) and the game world result don't have to be the same. My supers do tend to top out a little above the "nothing less than a bursting shell' but a very few of your above mentioned things have shown up.

 

I'm often amused (and disappointed) when people say because their campaigns, no matter how long running, are a certain way everyone else's must have the same pitfalls and virtues. Many times people have told me if I do X then Y must be so. One thing I've discovered is every group has its own dynamics and assumptions, strengths and pitfalls, things they can handle or not. Very often there are long threads about problem mechanics or gamebreaking combinations that I've never had any problem with but I'm sure the opposite is true. Each game ,group creates its own reality. Mine is more concerned with how it would work in Lester Dent's ( Doc Savage creator),Alexander Dumas or Robert E. Howard's world than the historical one because thats the stuff we want our game to be like

[Clonus]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Easy I aim for the manhole cover' date=' car, fire hydrant for better shrapnel plus explosion.[/quote']

 

There's a reason why anti-tank weapons aren't designed to produce shrapnel in the first place, and it isn't because they couldn't be.

 

OK so conventional forces can handle supervillains, if they feel so inclined. That being the case, why is my spandex-clad tuchus needed? With great power comes no responsibility at all.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Your correct I don't aim for Angry Godman I aim for his hex.

 

Law Rocket Launcher EX Haymaker maneuver FTW!

 

Angry Godman only creates an arms race... bad GMing skills FTL

 

 

.

 

 

A little judgmental there? I think we very fundamentally disagree here anyway.

Anyway some of us don't haymaker "real" weapons. Just seems illogical to our group. Aim for the head or something sure but damage output is damage output unless its a phaser or something with several settings

 

Anyway. We want our giants to walk the earth

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

OK so conventional forces can handle supervillains, if they feel so inclined. That being the case, why is my spandex-clad tuchus needed? With great power comes no responsibility at all.

 

Because courage can't be purchased? You either have it within yourself or you don't.

 

Another way to look at it is why are there so many people willing to be abused by domestic violence? workplace harassment? refusing to report crimes against their person? You ask a very good question. Why do we need HERO's at all. It's not about the powers it's about your convictions for doing the right thing at the right time.

 

Furthermore what might not be right, might be legal. Justice comes from conviction of the heart, not always the law.

[nexus]

A little judgmental there? I think we very fundamentally disagree here anyway.

Anyway some of us don't haymaker "real" weapons. Just seems illogical to our group. Aim for the head or something sure but damage output is damage output unless its a phaser or something with several settings

 

I was wondering just what the sfx of using a Haymaker with a LAW when aiming for a hex would be. It's not aiming for a vital spot and you can't power up a LAW rocket. What are you doing to make the explosion more powerful?

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

I was wondering just what the sfx of using a Haymaker with a LAW when aiming for a hex would be. It's not aiming for a vital spot and you can't power up a LAW rocket. What are you doing to make the explosion more powerfu

 

Oh you know the usual if I can't hit Angry Godman.

 

Aim for the Manhole cover, car, fire hydrant next to him etc. Something that will aid in shrapnel like the gas main that killed superman. Since a LAW rocket launcher is an explosion aiming for his area should get him good enough.

 

I think some people here are missing the arms race evolution.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Some of us just are skipping the arms race evolution, seems kind of iron age.

 

We understand that in our world and most fictional ones courage can come from anyone and those people are true heroes no matter what their prowess. IMO again I feel you are way overgeneralizing. This about peoples Champions campaigns. Sometimes Players simply want their characters to be special and needed. Part of the superhero fantasy is that the normal folks and resources can't do the job but our hero can..

 

 

Many of the hints about your campaign seem to very interesting but don't necessarily need your special take to be addressed by a different group. We just what to simulate our particular favorite style of a type of very specialized fiction and there are 100s of ways to do that each one right for its own group. So no arms race fro our group but probably something else you don't see happening

[Clonus]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Because courage can't be purchased?

 

Sure it can. Just buy a high PRE or EGO. But the question I'm asking is, "If you aren't actually more competent than the authorities to deal with the situation, then what business do you have getting in the way? Are you brave to run into a burning house to look for trapped people as the firemen arrive, or are you just an idiot?"

[Guest steamteck]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Sure it can. Just buy a high PRE or EGO. But the question I'm asking is' date=' "If you aren't actually more competent than the authorities to deal with the situation, then what business do you have getting in the way? Are you brave to run into a burning house to look for trapped people as the firemen arrive, or are you just an idiot?"[/quote']

 

 

I like that but can't rep you again yet.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Look I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I know that by returning in public to these boards after years of absence non of you will have any idea where I'm coming from. The question was "How do you deal with superhero's and guns in your campaigns" I've stated my opinion on the matter. My system works great for my group of players. I don't have problematic issues that arise from Angry Godman syndrome. I have tried to point out the problems of Angry Godman syndrome. There is a place for strong normals in any campaign world and (believe it or not) the HERO's are very much needed.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

"If you aren't actually more competent than the authorities to deal with the situation, then what business do you have getting in the way? Are you brave to run into a burning house to look for trapped people as the firemen arrive, or are you just an idiot?"

 

This is a great question unrelated to the topic. I would suggest asking the same question by starting a new thread. There I would be happy to discuss it with you or anyone else.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Look I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I know that by returning in public to these boards after years of absence non of you will have any idea where I'm coming from. The question was "How do you deal with superhero's and guns in your campaigns" I've stated my opinion on the matter. My system works great for my group of players. I don't have problematic issues that arise from Angry Godman syndrome. I have tried to point out the problems of Angry Godman syndrome. There is a place for strong normals in any campaign world and (believe it or not) the HERO's are very much needed.

 

 

I agree there is a place for strong mortals in any campaign. I think however there is some feeling you are preaching "the one true way" and that's where the friction is coming from. I, at least appreciate your insight but do realize there can be perfectly viable, fun other ways. I'm glad its worked so well for you guys. Our way has worked great too. I've has a continuous campaign for as long as you mentioned playing ( ain't it cool!)

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

I think however there is some feeling you are preaching "the one true way" and that's where the friction is coming from. I, at least appreciate your insight but do realize there can be perfectly viable, fun other ways. I'm glad its worked so well for you guys. Our way has worked great too. I've has a continuous campaign for as long as you mentioned playing ( ain't it cool!

 

Actually the general feeling I get from most of the posters on these boards is that a character such as Nick Fury, the Punisher, Hawlkeye, and the Green Arrow have no place in Champions. I think thats a dis service to the game and genre in general. That is why I defend vs. Angry Godman with such vigor. It limits the imagination to such narrow builds for players.

 

To each his own I guess.

[OddHat]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Yes the captain of the cheerleaders squad would never be corrupt enough to manipulate the team to fit her auspicious popularity needs.

 

Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely you see this in business, sport teams, and MacDonalds day shift supervisors every day. If you think it's just limited to Government entities then you have an interesting view of humanity. Mankind will exploit its own at every opportunity unless individuals have something bigger than him self to believe in. Such as a Moral code, a sense of responsible ethics, a belief in a higher power, or Jesus Christ as his own personal Lord and Savior. To expect better of humanity is to be naive in my opinion. This is why the world needs HERO's and will always need HERO's from the ancient days of Youxia to modern day Supers, HERO's matter.

 

I'd see this as a fundamental disconnect in the conversation, so I'll start from where we agree: A person with a fundamental moral or ethical code, including (but not exclusively) a belief in G_d in whatever form, can face the temptation to abuse his power and yet refrain from doing so. Personally, my own experience and study leads me to believe that this is by far the rule rather than the exception; most people, most of the time, do not abuse their power over their pets, their children, their students, their employees, and all the many others they may find themselves holding power over. Simple empathy and group identification alone can reduce or prevent abuse. People sometimes slip; some people never develop or adapt a functional moral code; some can't feel empathy at all. Some of those will rise to positions of power and abuse all they come across. None the less, most people don't, not because of a lack of the chance to abuse whatever power they have and get away with it, but simply because one way or another a healthy, functional human is not under most circumstances abusive, especially towards perceived members of their own groups (usually but not always family, friends, tribe, and nation, in that order). Treatment of perceived outsiders or threats to the group are a different story, but even there most functional adults don't abuse their power most of the time (with exceptions, both cultural and individual).

 

The monsters of history wouldn't have been less qualitatively cruel if they'd had less power; their cruelty would have been focussed on fewer and weaker targets, and their stupidities would have caused less damage, but the evil would still have been their. Power provides opportunity; it lets a bad human indulge his desires. It does not turn a good man bad. At worst, it can let the flaws that were already there rise up.

 

As to whether the arguably corruptive nature of power has anything to do with the effectiveness of guns in a campaign, I don't buy it. My players run their characters as Heroes because that's the agreement under which our campaign operates; if they didn't, they'd have to find another campaign. Their choice to run Heroic characters would remain the same whether guns fired by normals did nothing or could kill their characters instantly.

[OddHat]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Actually the general feeling I get from most of the posters on these boards is that a character such as Nick Fury, the Punisher, Hawlkeye, and the Green Arrow have no place in Champions. I think thats a dis service to the game and genre in general. That is why I defend vs. Angry Godman with such vigor. It limits the imagination to such narrow builds for players.

 

To each his own I guess.

 

All of those would be 350 point characters in a standard Champions campaign, built with the same Rule of X as the Superman Homage or the Flash Homage. Champions has its own logic.

[nexus]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

There's a difference between not agreeing a green recruit fresh out of basic should be built on over a 100 points and feeling that characters based on training/equipment/etc have no place in Champions. I don't think anyone in the thread has voiced the latter opinion. I know I haven't.

[Clonus]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Actually the general feeling I get from most of the posters on these boards is that a character such as Nick Fury' date=' the Punisher, Hawlkeye, and the Green Arrow have no place in Champions. .[/quote']

 

The real message is, "Those guys ain't normals".

[Hyper-Man]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Allow me to state this a better way.

 

The real world natural result of bullet proof villains is a better bullet for a better price. By making your villains bullet proof (high resistant def) your end result is an arms race for your HERO's. It's better to just only allow for lower resistant def like 9-14 and be done with it otherwise every one of your HERO's becomes based on Drains Transforms, Suppress, and Find Weakness powers. Thats what 28 years of playing champions has taught me. Champions can be so much more without invincible man ruining your game.

 

This sounds more like a tone of game issue than one of mechanical thresholds.

 

Every Champions (the HERO genre) game I've ever been personally involved with were worlds that frowned upon heroes using Lethal Force vs. villains except in the most dire situation (World threatening). The issue was never about whether a player character could hurt the villain with his RKA. It was about whether the situation warranted such an escalation.

[Trebuchet]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

As to whether the arguably corruptive nature of power has anything to do with the effectiveness of guns in a campaign' date=' I don't buy it. My players run their characters as Heroes because that's the agreement under which our campaign operates; if they didn't, they'd have to find another campaign. Their choice to run Heroic characters would remain the same whether guns fired by normals did nothing or could kill their characters instantly.[/quote']Absolutely right! As we're fond of saying in our gaming group, "Superhero is a compound word." It isn't power that makes a hero. Power just provides capabilities that ordinary mortals lack. In any respect that truly matters Batman isn't more of a hero than a fireman rushing into a burning building or a soldier dodging enemy fire to help a wounded comrade.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

The real message is, "Those guys ain't normals".

 

Yes but for the most part, the weapons are. A gun in the hands of Nick Fury is still bound by the physics of the gun.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Yes but for the most part' date=' the weapons are. A gun in the hands of Nick Fury is still bound by the physics of the gun.[/quote']

 

I guess you've never seen any of the many threads on Find Weakness and/or Hit Locations as means of increasing damage of otherwise 'normal' attacks.

[Trebuchet]

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign

 

Actually the general feeling I get from most of the posters on these boards is that a character such as Nick Fury, the Punisher, Hawkeye, and the Green Arrow have no place in Champions. I think thats a disservice to the game and genre in general. That is why I defend vs. Angry Godman with such vigor. It limits the imagination to such narrow builds for players.

 

To each his own I guess.

While I would argue that the Punisher doesn't really qualify as a true hero by my standards, I think any inability to accommodate the likes of Nick Fury, Hawkeye, and the Green Arrow is a flaw in a particular campaign and not a flaw in the game system itself. I've seen too many ninjas with HCM in Champions campaigns not to think such unpowered characters can't work just fine. I've even been in a campaign with a Green Arrow-like archer who was quite capable and relevant even on a team full of more traditional supers.