Armored Suit

[Arrgg]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Wow this is a good concept:

 

Some things that I thought of while reading this: The suit of armor could be a Psionic Enhancer, thus the character might want to buy some limited psionic like powers, but the Suit would boost it up and give additional abilities.

 

One of the things I have seen is the Armor 10/10 - this may be too much for the campaign. I would highly recommend the GM take a look at that and see what level Armor he wants in his campaign. I personally would go with 6/6 and a 60AP cap for a 250 pt campaign. But it is a 40 AP cap, so Armor might need to be lowered down to 5/5. In both of these instances this should free up some additional points for the character to add more stuff.

 

Yeah like my 15 point force field

[Maelstrom]

Re: Armored Suit

 

One approach I didn't listed was the use of the vehicle rules for powered armor, as mentioned in the Ultimate Vehicle rules. Maybe he got into a VW bug, and psionically shaped it into the mighty Volksarmor.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

One approach I didn't listed was the use of the vehicle rules for powered armor' date=' as mentioned in the Ultimate Vehicle rules. Maybe he got into a VW bug, and psionically shaped it into the mighty Volksarmor.[/quote']

 

"I am the Great And Powerful Turtle!"

 

See the last entry on this page.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Well, there's a breakpoint dependent upon the number of alternate forms and the amount of overlap between them. If all Iron Man multiforms have Tony's skills, attributes, and resources, that could easily be hundreds of base points that you'll have to repurchase in each multiform. Plus, most of the Iron Man armors will have large amounts of similar basic systems; the Hulkbuster will still have a radio and life support, the deep sea armor will still have repulsors and armor, and so forth.

 

If Tony is 300 points, and the armor is another 500, with 300 of those points being essentially static between iterations, the multiform works out to 160 + (5 x every doubling of forms) points on top of the cost of the most expensive form (800-ish).

 

If Tony + Basic Armor is 500 points, and you have a multipower for the changes between armor types, those 200 points become a framework, with 20-pt ultra slots for each form. It's much cheaper until you pass nine total armor types, then multiform starts jumping ahead exponentially.

 

On the other hand, with multiform you can use OIHID, perhaps. So readjust those costs accordingly.

 

I'm still not following the part after "If Tony + Basic Armor is 500 points..." If Tony is 300 points and any particular verson of the armor adds another 500 (300 of which is common to all versions of the armor), those are 800 point forms. When buying Multiform for this type of character you have to buy everything that is common to all forms over again in the multiform, not just he unique stuff. So even though there's only 200 points that change from Tony+Armor1 to Tony+Armor2, you have to buy all of Tony+Armor1 and Tony+Armor2. Which makes the mutiform power 160 points for each 800 pt form.

 

So I'm not seeing where a Multipower comes into the picture. Could you provide a basic build to illustrate?

 

Also, I'm not sure if it's legal to buy some of the multiple form's stuff with OIHID, since by definition the alternate form *is* the Heroic ID.

[Kelcyron]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Thought I might post a simple armor character I whipped up built on the 175+75 point scale. This is a lower-powered version of a character that I played in a campaign a few years ago.

 

---------------------------

Lattice

 

Player:

 

Val Char Cost

10 STR 0

11/21 DEX 3

13/33 CON 6

10 BODY 0

18 INT 8

11 EGO 2

13 PRE 3

10 COM 0

 

2/14 PD 0

3/15 ED 0

2/5 SPD 0

5/9 REC 0

26/66 END 0

22/32 STUN 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

2" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 22

 

Cost Power

Enhanced Characteristics, all slots OIF (-1/2)

27 1) +20 CON (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

13 2) +2 SPD (20 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

20 3) +10 DEX (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

20 Armor (12 PD/8 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

20 Flight 15" (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

6 High Range Radio Perception (Radio Group) (12 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [very common Sense] (Sight and Hearing; -1/2)

27 Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Safe Environment: Zero Gravity; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

27 Armor Modes: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2)

2u 1) Density Increase (6,400 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

2u 2) Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 3) Entangle 2 1/2d6, 2 DEF, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 4) Sight Group Flash 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 5) Healing BODY 4d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 6) Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

Powers Cost: 172

 

 

Cost Skill

3 Mechanics 13-

3 Electronics 13-

3 Inventor 13-

3 Scientist

2 1) SS: Ballistics 13- (3 Active Points)

2 2) SS: Materials 13- (3 Active Points)

2 3) SS: Medecine 13- (3 Active Points)

2 4) SS: Nanotechnology 13- (3 Active Points)

2 5) SS: Xenotechnology 13- (3 Active Points)

3 Weaponsmith (Energy Weapons, Other) 13-

20 +2 Overall

Skills Cost: 45

 

Cost Perk

5 Money: Well Off

4 Fringe Benefit: Top Man

2 Fringe Benefit: Security Clearance

Perks Cost: 11

 

 

Total Character Cost: 250

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Physical Limitation: CVK (Frequently, Greatly Impairing)

20 Normal Characteristic Maxima

15 Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently, Major)

10 Hunted: Viper 8- (As Pow, Capture)

10 Dependent NPC: 8- (Normal)

5 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN (Uncommon)

Disadvantage Points: 75

Base Points: 175

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

The powers are based on an energized crystal that accesses higher dimensions through superstring vibrations (ie vibrate the crystalline lattice in dimension 7 and the mass goes up dramatically). None of the characteristics bought through the armor are bought with "no figureds" (for example, the suit is powered by the extra END generated by the elevated CON).

 

Now I just wish I knew how to do the scrolling window for the character write-up.

 

Kelcyron

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

27 Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Safe Environment: Zero Gravity; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

 

This brings up something that has always puzzled me. I would think that to build (power-wise) a sealed suit (of any kind), one would purchase the two 10 point Immunities -- poisons and bioagents. After all, if they can't physically get to you, they can't harm/infect you, right?

 

Yet time and again, in various resource books that Hero Games have produced, there are space suits (which one would think are sealed), but they don't have the immunities. Does Hero System presume that the F/X of a sealed suit combined with Life Support: Self-Contained Breathing is sufficient to negate attacks built to be poisons/diseases?

 

If so, then you can save some points by not buying them. Given that "official" sources don't use them for regular sealed suits, why should we? Unless donning the suit would *cure* you of those things...

 

27 Armor Modes: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2)

2u 1) Density Increase (6,400 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

2u 2) Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 3) Entangle 2 1/2d6, 2 DEF, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 4) Sight Group Flash 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 5) Healing BODY 4d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

2u 6) Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4)

The powers are based on an energized crystal that accesses higher dimensions through superstring vibrations (ie vibrate the crystalline lattice in dimension 7 and the mass goes up dramatically). None of the characteristics bought through the armor are bought with "no figureds" (for example, the suit is powered by the extra END generated by the elevated CON).

 

Okay... How does that give the other powers in the Multipower -- especially the Healing? And the only two things I saw that cost END are the Flight and the Density Increase (which only costs END to start). so it's not like he burns though a lot of it.

[Kelcyron]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Okay... How does that give the other powers in the Multipower -- especially the Healing? And the only two things I saw that cost END are the Flight and the Density Increase (which only costs END to start). so it's not like he burns though a lot of it.

 

Most of the attacks in the multipower are auxilliary weapons (or in the case of the healing, a nanite emitter) which are tack-ons to the basic design. The original build had the flight, DI and armor in an EC (we allowed some non-END powers in EC's), but due to the very limited points and building to pure 5E rules, I put the DI in the multipower.

 

Even though most of the powers don't actually cost END, conceptually the suit still requires "power" with the boosted CON representing the power core.

 

Kelcyron

[braincraft]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Which makes the mutiform power 160 points for each 800 pt form.

 

Multiform [...] Cost: 1 character point for every 5 character points in the most expensive form' date=' 2x the number of forms for every +5 character points[/quote']

 

Honestly, several published characters have multiple multiforms. This is hardly the first time it's come up.

 

 

Also' date=' I'm not sure if it's legal to buy some of the multiple form's stuff with OIHID, since by definition the alternate form *is* the Heroic ID.[/quote']

 

Well, for the multiform, yes, it would be stupid. For the multipower construct, I'm going to have to disagree on account of your being wrong. The multipower is for alternate forms of the heroic identity.

 

 

So I'm not seeing where a Multipower comes into the picture. Could you provide a basic build to illustrate?

 

Tony Stark

STR 13

DEX 15

blah blah blah

Total Cost for base characteristics, skills, perks, talents, and lack of martial arts: 300 points

 

Repulsor Rays 60 points OIHID

Armor 60 points OIHID

blah blah blah

Total Cost for base Iron Man armor stuff including cupholder: 300 points

 

Specialty Suits Multipower (200 active points), OIHID, can only change slots in base (-1/4), (real cost 133)

 

*Basic Suit: A little extra everything, fairly balanced, 200 active points, ultra slot, (real cost 13)

*Hulkbuster Suit: More STR, more DCs, more Armor, fewer exotic defenses, fewer munitions specialized for anything other than big smashy guys, 200 active points, ultra slot, (real cost 13)

*Other Suits blah blah blah with additional real cost

 

 

The multipower slots are essentially compound powers with all relevant differential points in the same slot. You can't have multi slots, unless Stark can figure out some way to wear the Hulkbuster helmet with his Deep Space suit or something.

 

It's even cheaper than using a VPP for the same thing (unless you have a ridiculous number of iterations) in exchange for very limited configurations. It's so much cheaper than a multiform that it's kind of embarassing to even suggest the latter.

 

I don't feel that it's unbalanced in game terms for the same reasons a VPP wouldn't be, and I think it makes a lot more meta-sense than rebuilding your whole character from scratch every time you want to switch a couple of weapons around or move points from DEX to Armor.

 

I was going to comment on jonstryder's build, but it seems to have vanished since I started this reply.

[braincraft]

Re: Armored Suit

 

This brings up something that has always puzzled me. I would think that to build (power-wise) a sealed suit (of any kind), one would purchase the two 10 point Immunities -- poisons and bioagents. After all, if they can't physically get to you, they can't harm/infect you, right?

 

Yet time and again, in various resource books that Hero Games have produced, there are space suits (which one would think are sealed), but they don't have the immunities. Does Hero System presume that the F/X of a sealed suit combined with Life Support: Self-Contained Breathing is sufficient to negate attacks built to be poisons/diseases?

 

If so, then you can save some points by not buying them. Given that "official" sources don't use them for regular sealed suits, why should we? Unless donning the suit would *cure* you of those things...

 

That's exactly why. Having a sealed suit doesn't make you immune to disease and toxins; it simply cuts off the usual vectors for those things. Your hazmat suit won't help you if The Alchemist turns your blood to acid. Your space suit won't do a thing if Past Master goes back in time and laces your most recent meal with samples of the Black Plague - it won't even help if Stinger pokes a hole in it to inject you with venom.

 

And yes, as you say, it certainly won't turn back the clock to put your gas mask on after you've already breathed in a heaping lungful.

 

The reason those things usually work against nasty stuff is that most of that nasty stuff is built with limitations like NND (not against LS: breathing) and 'must break skin to infect' (-1/2).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

That's exactly why. Having a sealed suit doesn't make you immune to disease and toxins; it simply cuts off the usual vectors for those things. Your hazmat suit won't help you if The Alchemist turns your blood to acid. Your space suit won't do a thing if Past Master goes back in time and laces your most recent meal with samples of the Black Plague - it won't even help if Stinger pokes a hole in it to inject you with venom.

 

And yes, as you say, it certainly won't turn back the clock to put your gas mask on after you've already breathed in a heaping lungful.

 

The reason those things usually work against nasty stuff is that most of that nasty stuff is built with limitations like NND (not against LS: breathing) and 'must break skin to infect' (-1/2).

 

Okay, I can understand the vector angle. The thing is, these two things are the same cost, yet one gives significantly more protection (in a limited arena) than the other:

 

7 LS: Self Contained Breathing - OIF(Gas Mask; -1/2)

 

7 LS: Self Contained Breathing - OIF(Hazmat Suit; -1/2)

 

So I am uncertain why with just a change in F/X of the Life Support (the "coverage" provided by the OIF), the character is now much less susceptible to being affected by poisons and diseases for the same cost.

 

Does Hero System have any official examples for write-ups for poisons, biological agents, and other hazardous agents?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Honestly' date=' several published characters have multiple multiforms. This is hardly the first time it's come up.[/quote']

 

My primary experience is with just the 5th ed book. While I have purchased many of the Ultimate books, I haven't had the time to sit down and read them. So I am basically a n00b when it comes to using Multiform, okay?

 

Well' date=' for the multiform, yes, it would be stupid. For the multipower construct, I'm going to have to disagree on account of your being wrong. The multipower is for alternate forms [i']of the heroic identity[/i].

 

it was possible for a character to be build using Multiform to represent the "weaker" state of the character.

 

Geez, break it to me gently, willya? While I realized that Multiform could do that, I had always considered that to be something of a self-imposed handicap.

 

If you take a standard 200 Base + 150 Disad character as an example, you can build a 350 pt character straight up. But to give him a second, weaker, form that is a 1:1 duplication of a portion of that 350 point character, you have already taken away points from that 350 point character. Making him weaker than his teammates. Maybe not hugely weaker, but I think most players would notice "missing" 30-40 points, even if it is for a

 

But if that same 350 pt character were Tony, where, say, 70 points of him were the Tony + Iron Man armor suit Multiform, that alternate form could spend all 350 points on actually being Tony + Iron Man suit.

 

having the Full-Powered form purchase it to be inefficient, as it takes a significant chunk of your points (making the character basically built on less than his teammates) to make an un-powered form... that is even more less points than one's teammates.

 

If Iron Man (Tony + Armor Suit) purchases the Multiform for Tony, he's effectively buying the base character (Tony) 1.2 times. Tony + Armor Suit + (Tony / 5). So the only way I had given real thought to was if Tony was the True Form and many of his points went to purchasing one or more Multiform(s) (w/ OIF or OIHID perhaps?) where the Alternate form could spend all of the "non-Tony" points on the Iron Man armor suit.

 

 

 

Specialty Suits Multipower (200 active points), OIHID, can only change slots in base (-1/4), (real cost 133)

 

The problem with this IMO is that not everything that could be found in an Iron Man suit can be placed in a Multipower (like any Special Power).

 

The Multipower slots are essentially compound powers with all relevant differential points in the same slot. You can't have multi slots, unless Stark can figure out some way to wear the Hulkbuster helmet with his Deep Space suit or something.

 

I'm not sure, but if one power in a compound power gets Drained, don't all powers in the compound power get drained?

 

Here are some of my thoughts on how Multiform could be used for a character like this:

 

This is the way I had considered doing Tony with Multiple Iron Man suits with a 350 pt character limit:

 

162 Tony

47 Regular Iron Man Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

47 Hulkbuster Iron Man Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

47 War Machine Iron Man Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

47 Space Exploration Iron Man Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

 

Here Tony is a 162 pt character with 4 separately purchased Multiforms, making him on his own a 350 pt character. If he goes into the vault and dons a suit, he becomes a fairly regular 350 pt character. The fact that each of those Multiforms didn't also purchase each other is consistent in that he can only use one suit at at time. They don't disappear, but they *do* become unavailable to him.

 

Making them independent Multiforms as opposed to buying x2 forms for +5 pts is the only way I know of to avoid the affects of a negative adjustment power affecting *all* forms of a Multiform.

 

A really sneaky player might try to buy it this way:

162 Tony

47 Iron Man Chassis* Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

 

* The Iron Man Chassis is literally the frame that the various powers are mounted upon. The "powers" is a large VPP and possibly some non-VPP powers common to all the armor suits. The VPP is "set" to a particular mix of powers in a fashion similar to a gadget pool, can only be changed in a suitably equipped facility, and represents the differences between the suits.

 

Then the player also buys this:

 

15 Seven More Iron Man Chassis

126 Gadget Pool

 

Making both the base form and the alternate forms 350 pt characters.

 

The Iron Man Multiform doesn't have access to the Gadget Pool -- He's Iron Man, not Gadget Pool Man. The Gadget Pool is for when Tony is remaining Tony, like tinkering in his lab, or on a "covert" mission where he can't bring along a suit of armor in a steamer trunk (or the convenient briefcase-sized model).

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Armored Suit

 

But wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy the extra forms though multiform (+5 pts = 2x forms) instead of buying the Multiform over again in each slot of the Multipower?

 

The idea is that you're buying only 'The Suit' multiple times, instead of 'Me + Suit' again and again and again. IF I were to permit this route, buying each suit individually in the MPow is probably the way I'd allow it, thus:

 

Power Suits: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2): 40 Real Cost.

u) Limited Multiform 1 (300 Character Points in the most expensive form) (60 Active Points); OIF (-1/2): 4 Real Cost.

u) Limited Multiform 2 (300 Character Points in the most expensive form) (60 Active Points); OIF (-1/2): 4 Real Cost.

u) Limited Multiform 3 (300 Character Points in the most expensive form) (60 Active Points); OIF (-1/2): 4 Real Cost.

 

Etc. Eight suits would thus be 64 points -- while Multiform (300 points) OIF x8 forms is 50 points.

 

Limited Multiform, however -- meaning that the base character remains the same, it's just the suit that varies -- might be an actual Advantage. How much is the question. +1/2? I suspect it would vary by how much of the original character you're spending ...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Making them independent Multiforms as opposed to buying x2 forms for +5 pts is the only way I know of to avoid the affects of a negative adjustment power affecting *all* forms of a Multiform.

 

A really sneaky player might try to buy it this way:

162 Tony

47 Iron Man Chassis* Multiform (350 pt character) - OIF(-1/2)

15 Seven More Iron Man Chassis

126 Gadget Pool

 

Making both the base form and the alternate forms 350 pt characters.

 

* The Iron Man Chassis is literally the frame that the various powers are mounted upon. The "powers" is a large VPP and possibly some non-VPP powers common to all the armor suits. The VPP is "set" to a particular mix of powers in a fashion similar to a gadget pool, can only be changed in a suitably equipped facility, and represents the differences between the suits.

 

The Iron Man Multiform doesn't have access to the Gadget Pool -- He's Iron Man, not Gadget Pool Man. The Gadget Pool is for when Tony is remaining Tony, like tinkering in his lab, or on a "covert" mission where he can't bring along a suit of armor in a steamer trunk (or the convenient briefcase-sized model).

 

This ... is an interesting concept. I may have to play around with this idea.

 

However, each chassis multiform is an 'add-on' to the base, right? Or is he 'buying himself' again each time? The VPP would be there partially as an excuse for how to modify each chassis, yes/no? IOW, once he's in a suit (shifted into one of the MForms), no Gadget Pool Man. BUT he can gadget stuff to carry along as Tony.

 

Hm. Interesting. This is a good use of the lesser form paying the points for the greater form.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

This ... is an interesting concept. I may have to play around with this idea.

 

Thanks. Be my guest.

 

However' date=' each chassis multiform is an 'add-on' to the base, right? Or is he 'buying himself' again each time?[/quote']

 

The Multiform is a full character, so yes it is 'buying himself' again each time. Anything else would require a house rule on Multiform.

 

The VPP would be there partially as an excuse for how to modify each chassis' date=' yes/no? IOW, once he's in a suit (shifted into one of the MForms), no Gadget Pool Man. BUT he can gadget stuff to carry along as Tony.[/quote']

 

The VPP in the Alternate Form (the armor suit w/ tony inside) is so that when buying multiple copies via the +5 pts = x2 equipment rule (which still keeps them seperate objects), they can still be different. The Gadget Pool in the Base form does not carry over to the Alternate (Suit) forms. I mainly stuck it in there to round out the character point-wise, and to give him some ability beyond just the typical guy-in-a-suit who often can't do much without the suit.

 

Hm. Interesting. This is a good use of the lesser form paying the points for the greater form.

 

Thanks again. I think it blurs the distinction between "lesser" and "greater" forms because they are both 350 point forms. Yet all of the "character" is common to both forms like one would expect with donning a suit. But that suit makes it so that you can't play with all the toys you have (stupid armored gloves! Be more dexterous!) So IMO the character shouldn't be a problem for a 350 point game (barring abusive builds internal to one form).

[jonstryder]

Re: Armored Suit

 

My GM gave me some advice on powered armor, so here is what I was able to come up with for a modular styled armor.

 

Giga Armor) Basic Chassis

[16] Armor: 10 PDr / 10 EDr; Hardened (+1/4); OIF (-1/2); Half Mass (-1/2); Extra Time (Full Round to activate only, -1/4)---AP 37

 

[8] Full Metal: Density Increase: +400kg; +10 STR; -2 KB; +2 PD & ED; Zero END (+1/2); OIHID (-1/4); Always On (-1/2)---AP 15

 

[6] Mechanical STR: +10 STR; Not Figured (-1/2); OIHID (-1/4)---AP 10

 

[6] Mechanical Reflexes: +1 Speed; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 10

 

[6] Life Support: Safe Environment) Intense Heat/Cold, Radiation, Pressure [7]; OIHD (-1/4)---AP 7

 

[20] Sensors & Comm.: Radar [15]; Radio Perception/Transmission [10]; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 25

 

[14] Power Supply: 180 END Reserve; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 18

[5] Power Supply Recovery: 8 Rec.; Takes 1 Minute (-1/4); OIHID (-1/4)---AP 8

TOTAL = 81

 

 

Giga Modular Systems

[60] MultiPower: 120pts; OIF (-1/2); Power layout on armor can only be altered at base (-1/2)---AP 120

• Power layout can only be altered at base acting as a control factor to limit a character from suddenly switching out the structure of their multipower on the fly. Once a layout is selected it is locked in until PC changes it.

 

[2u] Arm Blasters: Energy Blast) 12d6; Common Limitations (-1); Restrainable (-1/2); Beam (-1/4); No Bounce (-1/4)---AP 60

 

[1u] Knuckle Breaker: HA) +4d6; Double Knockback (+3/4); Common Limitations (-1); Restrainable (-1/2); Hand to Hand Only (-1/2)---AP35

 

[1u] Particle Rifle: Energy Blast) 8d6; Armor Piercing (+1/2); Common Limitations (-1); Beam (-1/4); No Bounce (-1/4); STR Min 16- (-3/4); No Knockback (-1/4); Restrainable (-1/2)---AP 60

 

[1u] Micro Missiles: RKA) 1d6; Double Knockback (+3/4); Explosive (+1/2); AutoFire (3 Shots, +1/4); Charges (16 missiles, +0); Common Limitations (-1); No Bounce (-1/4)---AP 37

 

[2] Electro-Field: Drain) 2d6 DEX; Continuous (+1); Damage Shield (+3/4); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 55

 

[1u] Average Flight: 8”; NCM x4; Noisy (-1/4); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 21

 

[1u] Combat Flight: 10”; Noisy (-1/4); No Non-Combat movement (-1/2); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 20

 

[1u] Non-Combat Flight: 4”; Mega Scale (1” = 1 Kilometer, +1/4); Noisy (-1/4); Non-Combat Movement only (-1/2); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 10

 

[1u] Defense Pack I: Force Field) 10PDr / 10EDr; END to Activate (+1/4); Hardened (+1/4); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 30

 

[1u] Defense Pack II: Force Field) 5PDr / 5EDr; Zero END (+1/2); Hardened x2 (+1/2); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 20

 

[2u] Defense Pack III: Force Field) 12PDr / 12EDr; END to Activate (+1/4); Hardened x2 (+1/2); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 42

 

TOTAL = 14+60 = 74

[braincraft]

Re: Armored Suit

 

If you take a standard 200 Base + 150 Disad character as an example' date=' you can build a 350 pt character straight up. But to give him a second, weaker, form that is a 1:1 duplication of a portion of that 350 point character, you have already taken away points from that 350 point character. Making him weaker than his teammates. Maybe not hugely weaker, but I think most players would notice "missing" 30-40 points, even if it is for a[/quote']

 

This is one of the reasons I don't like Multiform as a power.

 

 

But if that same 350 pt character were Tony, where, say, 70 points of him were the Tony + Iron Man armor suit Multiform, that alternate form could spend all 350 points on actually being Tony + Iron Man suit.

 

having the Full-Powered form purchase it to be inefficient, as it takes a significant chunk of your points (making the character basically built on less than his teammates) to make an un-powered form... that is even more less points than one's teammates.

 

If Iron Man (Tony + Armor Suit) purchases the Multiform for Tony, he's effectively buying the base character (Tony) 1.2 times. Tony + Armor Suit + (Tony / 5). So the only way I had given real thought to was if Tony was the True Form and many of his points went to purchasing one or more Multiform(s) (w/ OIF or OIHID perhaps?) where the Alternate form could spend all of the "non-Tony" points on the Iron Man armor suit.

 

And this is the other reason. Being able to buy multiforms more expensive than your base form is stupid; why not have a 0-point incompetent normal with a 350-point Multiform, worth 1750 points, and then never switch back? Every other power of this type has restrictions to prevent creating a character built on more points than the base.

 

 

The problem with this IMO is that not everything that could be found in an Iron Man suit can be placed in a Multipower (like any Special Power).

 

Well, it's a house rule, albiet one that, I think, solves a lot of problems. Being able to put a character, or part of a character, in a multipower is balanced out by the fact that all the parts of that slot are bound together, and can only be accessed by using the whole slot.

 

And as far as that goes, there are plenty of examples of putting Special and inappropriate powers in a multipower or other power framework. A spell that grants water breathing puts Life Support in a multipower or VPP; a martial arts stance that grants OCV bonuses to certain maneuvers also counts, or a gadget pool that lets you build a sniper scope for your rifle. It's a valid bending of the rules.

 

 

I'm not sure' date=' but if one power in a compound power gets Drained, don't all powers in the compound power get drained?[/quote']

 

I can't find that in 5ER. Page 94 ("'compound' powers") makes no mention of this. Perhaps you're thinking of Elemental Control Frameworks.

 

 

Making them independent Multiforms as opposed to buying x2 forms for +5 pts is the only way I know of to avoid the affects of a negative adjustment power affecting *all* forms of a Multiform.

 

Or you could just independently buy every power of every suit individually. That would make it hella hard to adjust! Or you could buy 'Difficult to Dispel' on his Multiform.

 

Or your GM could just veto the bad guy's 'Drain Multiform' power. What the hell is that supposed to represent?

[braincraft]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Okay, I can understand the vector angle. The thing is, these two things are the same cost, yet one gives significantly more protection (in a limited arena) than the other:

 

7 LS: Self Contained Breathing - OIF(Gas Mask; -1/2)

 

7 LS: Self Contained Breathing - OIF(Hazmat Suit; -1/2)

 

So I am uncertain why with just a change in F/X of the Life Support (the "coverage" provided by the OIF), the character is now much less susceptible to being affected by poisons and diseases for the same cost.

 

Does Hero System have any official examples for write-ups for poisons, biological agents, and other hazardous agents?

 

It means that people can screw themselves on SFX. That's it. NND based on a poison dart that won't penetrate resistant defenses is less often useful than the same NND based on a heavier dart that penetrates small amounts of rPD, but I wouldn't necessarily charge more for the latter.

 

There are lots of writeups for various agents of that ilk in various places. The first I can think of is Scorpia, of Eurostar (CKC, p.75) whose Curare Darts are NND (LS: Immunity [curare]) and 'must target unarmored hit locations, -1/2'.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Armored Suit

 

And this is the other reason. Being able to buy multiforms more expensive than your base form is stupid; why not have a 0-point incompetent normal with a 350-point Multiform' date=' worth 1750 points, and then never switch back? Every other power of this type has restrictions to prevent creating a character built on more points than the base.[/quote']

 

You mean other than the fact you have to make up those additional +1550 points in Disadvantages for the enhanced form?

 

This is also not touching on the fact many GM's impose some form of AP cap, which a single 350pt power probably goes over just slightly...

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

For Multiform to be viable in a campaign with an AP cap, I have usually seen the cap not apply to the Multiform power itself, but to the Alternate Forms' powers. A character can have multiple forms, but all forms must adhere to the campaign limits for base points, disad points, and any other limits imposed (barring specific GM approval). Which tends to cap those UberForms reasonably well (even though all forms need GM policing like normal for any character).

[jonstryder]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Question, I noticed on Killer shrike's web site has a cahracter named Mr. Goodspeed. The character has not only got 100pts in vehicles but he has built power armor in his vehicle pool.

 

Is this viable?

[Haerandir]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Pretty much a GM-call. I've known GMs who don't allow PA built as Vehicles in their games, and GMs who encourage their players to build it that way. Really a matter of personal preference (and the sort of setting you want to run, of course, as it makes perfect sense in a heroic-level cyberpunk/anime game to have stock mecha running around).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Is this armor intended for a Superheroic Level game, or a more "normal/realistic" level? That affects what Limitations are valid to take.

 

Don't take this analysis too harshly. It's not bad, just needs a little more work IMO.

 

Giga Armor) Basic Chassis

[16] Armor: 10 PDr / 10 EDr; Hardened (+1/4); OIF (-1/2); Half Mass (-1/2); Extra Time (Full Round to activate only, -1/4)---AP 37

 

I've never seen a GM use any of the Mass Limitations in a superheroic level game. If this is a superheroic level game, how does it limit the character here?

 

[8] Full Metal: Density Increase: +400kg; +10 STR; -2 KB; +2 PD & ED; Zero END (+1/2); OIHID (-1/4); Always On (-1/2)---AP 15

 

I thought it was Half Mass?

 

[6] Mechanical Reflexes: +1 Speed; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 10

 

Unless I'm not seeing another Limitation, shouldn't this cost 8 instead of 6?

 

[20] Sensors & Comm.: Radar [15]; Radio Perception/Transmission [10]; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 25

 

I see the Comm -- but I don't see the Sensors?

 

[14] Power Supply: 180 END Reserve; OIHID (-1/4)---AP 18

[5] Power Supply Recovery: 8 Rec.; Takes 1 Minute (-1/4); OIHID (-1/4)---AP 8

 

You do realize that it would take him 23 minutes to fully recover his Reserve, right? That effectively means no Reserve Recoveries during a combat.

 

Giga Modular Systems

 

[60] MultiPower: 120pts; OIF (-1/2); Power layout on armor can only be altered at base (-1/2)---AP 120

• Power layout can only be altered at base acting as a control factor to limit a character from suddenly switching out the structure of their multipower on the fly. Once a layout is selected it is locked in until PC changes it.

 

IIRC, Limitations that affect changing of one slot to the other aren't to be taken on the Multipower Reserve.

 

[2u] Arm Blasters: Energy Blast) 12d6; Common Limitations (-1); Restrainable (-1/2); Beam (-1/4); No Bounce (-1/4)---AP 60

 

[1u] Knuckle Breaker: HA) +4d6; Double Knockback (+3/4); Common Limitations (-1); Restrainable (-1/2); Hand to Hand Only (-1/2)---AP35

 

[1u] Particle Rifle: Energy Blast) 8d6; Armor Piercing (+1/2); Common Limitations (-1); Beam (-1/4); No Bounce (-1/4); STR Min 16- (-3/4); No Knockback (-1/4); Restrainable (-1/2)---AP 60

 

Please explain why these three powers are Restrainable.

 

I've never seen a GM use any of the STR Min Limitations in a superheroic level game. If this is a superheroic level game, how does it limit the character here (especially considering the suit grants a +10 STR)?

 

[1u] Micro Missiles: RKA) 1d6; Double Knockback (+3/4); Explosive (+1/2); AutoFire (3 Shots' date=' +1/4); Charges (16 missiles, +0); Common Limitations (-1); No Bounce (-1/4)---AP 37[/quote']

 

Unless I'm mistaken (no book with me), AoE attacks can't be bounced?

 

[1u] Non-Combat Flight: 4”; Mega Scale (1” = 1 Kilometer' date=' +1/4); Noisy (-1/4); Non-Combat Movement only (-1/2); Common Limitations (-1)---AP 10[/quote']

 

Megascaled Movement is by definition Non-Combat Movement, so I doubt you can take a Limitation to that effect as well here.

[braincraft]

Brutally honest

 

You do realize that it would take him 23 minutes to fully recover his Reserve' date=' right? That effectively means no Reserve Recoveries during a combat.[/quote']

 

It just means that it would take five turns to benefit from a single recovery. In any case, it would be considerably simpler (and even a good bit cheaper) to just take less REC without the limitation.

 

Unless I'm mistaken (no book with me)' date=' AoE attacks can't be bounced?[/quote']

 

They can't. Also, there's little point in taking x2 KB on such a small Killing Attack. 1d6 (BODY damage) x2 (advantage) = avg 7 KB - 3d6 (2d6 general knockback +1d6 for a KA) = avg -3.5" KB. You'll still only manage a zero average against flying opponents. It's almost impossible to do KB against targets within the Explosion radius, since the DCs will be decreased even further. The autofire helps a little, but you'll get at most another two inches out of it.

 

Since it's a single die, you can still get lucky and roll a 10 or 12, but in almost all circumstances you're not getting more than a half-move of knockback and just enough KB damage to bounce off defenses. For that matter, the RKA itself is pretty puny, and anyone with any resistant defense to speak of will laugh at it. It has less power than a saturday night special! Bouncing three missles off a villain's chest isn't any more impressive than bouncing one.

 

I guess you're trying to emulate the bit where you spray missles at the bad guy and everyone acts surprised when he walks out of the smoking crater, but this is kind of sad.

 

I would just buy a bigger RKA without the autofire or increased knockback, and define it as a flurry of missles. You could get a 2d6-1K EX easily, which is still kind of wimpy but has the possibility of wounding weak bad guys. You'll do almost as much (little) knockback, and have vastly increased damage and more mileage out of your splash.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Armored Suit

 

Question, I noticed on Killer shrike's web site has a cahracter named Mr. Goodspeed. The character has not only got 100pts in vehicles but he has built power armor in his vehicle pool.

 

Is this viable?

 

It's viable, it's just more difficult to find the right balance point, particularly around DEF vs the average damage classes in a campaign -- too low and the "vehicle" armor is a joke, too high and its unstoppable.

 

And, obviously, the entire shtick of Mr. Goodspeed is to build an effective "supers" character based on vehicles, so there are design reasons behind it. If you look you'll also find a lot of other Power Armor style characters on my site that are built w/ OIHID, Foci, or Multiform. All just different approaches.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Armored Suit

 

It's viable, it's just more difficult to find the right balance point, particularly around DEF vs the average damage classes in a campaign -- too low and the "vehicle" armor is a joke, too high and its unstoppable.

 

And, obviously, the entire shtick of Mr. Goodspeed is to build an effective "supers" character based on vehicles, so there are design reasons behind it. If you look you'll also find a lot of other Power Armor style characters on my site that are built w/ OIHID, Foci, or Multiform. All just different approaches.

 

That link doesn't work for me.

 

If you build a Battlesuit as a Vehicle, presuming you want it to perform about the same as it would were it bought OIHID or OIF, you need to buy the Vehicle's DEX and SPD to the same level as the Character, right?

 

And because it's a vehilce, the character needs to also have Combat Piloting (and perhaps other skills like Systems Operation)?

 

I've never built a Battlesuit as a Vehicle before, so I'm not sure of all the differences. IIRC vehicles aren't allowed to purchase powers in frameworks and STUN damage doesn't transfer though a vehicle's DEF to the occupants.