Help with a fight at 2000 feet

[Bengalelf]

I would like to ask a question. I am preparing to run a battle in an airplane at say about 2000 feet in the air. My question is knowing how players can be problem causers, what would happen if they rip a hole in the side of the plane? How would I represent the differential in pressure? Would a TK STR work? If so how much? At least until the pilots can get the plane down to a safer distance. I would think that would take at least three turns. The pilots are normal after all. What type of rule would apply? And what have other GM's done in similar instants?

 

I would like to think that the most common way they would make a hole in the plane would be with knockback

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

I might be wrong, but I think 2000 feet is actually below the pressurization zone, isn't it?

[Comic]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

2000' = approximately 600 m = approximately 300".

 

You'd likely have more of a problem with wind than with depressurization, though bits of paper would get blown around.

 

And of course the plane would get hard to steer.

 

And likely start to fall like a spinning, whirling, rock with a funky sense of direction.

 

How fast does your plane fly?

 

If it hits terminal velocity, it's going to splat on the ground in under a turn.

 

Now, if it's at 20,000'-60,000', then you're talking some real interesting air pressure effects and pilot-regaining control time.

[Certified]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

If you have the time try to watch the Mythbusters episodes on Explosive Decompression. As stated above you would have light loose objects like paper flying around with even a small hole. If we're talking a people sized hole where there's not supposed to be one you may be looking at more movie quality effects, this would likely escalate the faster the plane is moving. Assuming a flight speed of somewhere from 500 to 800 miles per hour and a hole large enough again bigger than peoples you may be looking at the show stoppers. Those unbuckled holding on or being thrown around the cabin, crazy drops in altitude as the captain tries to maintain control. etc ...

[Tom]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Just some random factoids of questionable accuracy (it's been a while, after all) that may be of some use...

 

Oxygen is considered a really good idea about 10,000 feet...

 

Oxygen is considered necessary above 15,000 feet...

 

I think the 'standard' cruising altitude for most commercial aircraft is somewhere in the vicinity of 35,000 feet (so at 2000 feet, I expect an aircraft is either climbing for altitude following takeoff or coming in for a landing)...

 

De-compression probably won't be a major issue at 2000 feet, but anyone coming near the hole is in danger of leaving unwilling -- I'd probably require a DEX roll or maybe luck/unluck w/i one hex. Anyone leaving the plane had better have either flight/gliding or really good defenses (though this is also a good chance for heroic flying characters to practice their Grab By under field conditions)...

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Sometimes they make it back safely. See: Aloha Airlines Flight 243 for inspiration.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Force Wall could seal the breach.

 

Entangle Barrier could catch those unable to hold on.

 

Cabin Pressure would be like a 15 STR TK, AER, Only to drag People out the door.

 

Falling Damage is fun. Max 30d6 Normal Damage, unless you want to drop them on spikes |-)

 

 

 

 

QM

[gojira]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Pressure is pounds per square inch, right? So the larger the hole, the more square inches you have, and the more pressure you'll have to be able to stop.

 

Multiply the size of the hole in square inches to get pounds. Pounds is just STR or TK at that point.

[gojira]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Here's a table of PSI and altitude I found:

 

http://www.sensorsone.co.uk/altitude-pressure-units-conversion.html

[braincraft]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

2000 feet isn't that far up. There are buildings that tall. Most commercial aircraft (in other words, aircraft with closed cabins) are going to be much higher than that unless they've just taken off or are just about to land, or are circling at a lower altitude for some specific reason.

 

And yeah, at that height, you go splat quick. Not much time for a heroic save.

[Comic]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Pressure is pounds per square inch, right? So the larger the hole, the more square inches you have, and the more pressure you'll have to be able to stop.

 

Multiply the size of the hole in square inches to get pounds. Pounds is just STR or TK at that point.

Er, not exactly.

 

Bigger holes equalize faster, so instead of a gradual telekinetic pull you have a sudden burst.

 

Also, there are exotic factors like Bernoulli effect, and so on, to consider.

 

Now if your body fills the opening entirely, then the effective strength of the pressure difference will indeed be roughly the cross-section area of the hole times the difference in PSI.

 

2000' is not much different from being on the top floor of a skyscraper.

[Vondy]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Decompression isn't an issue at 2000 feet. That's less than half a mile. Denver is called the mile-high city for a reason. Commercial aircraft don't normally pressurize until 10,000 feet. The real issue is what a hole in the side of the plane does to the aerodynamics of the craft. It could result is a sudden loss of control, or just negative modifiers to piloting rolls. That depends on the size of the hole, the size of the craft, and the location of the hole. On a large plane a man-sized hole may not amount to much if its on the fuselage. If its on a wind-impacting surface or in front of a wing you might have more serious problems. As a GM I would allow any reasonable attempt to plug it to succeed. Spiderman's webbing, Sue Storm's force walls, the Blob's tuches, etc.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Help with a fight at 2000 feet

 

Some more relevant information: Aviation Oxygen

 

Most light aircraft are unpressurized, and many of those have open cockpits. You won't have "explosive decompression" in an aircraft at 2,000 feet any more than you'd have it driving in your car in the mountains and rolling down a window. Any buffetting and adverse control effects will be governed by airspeed and where the hole is relative to aerodynamic surfaces.

 

Whether you're sucked out is largely dependent upon whether you're secured to something, where you are relative to the hole in the plane, and whether you were leaning against the surface that suddenly gives way. Many skydiving planes do not have a door on the right side of the plane at all, and routinely transport parachutists to altitudes of up to 15,000 feet.

 

Note the link I posted earlier. Aloha Airlines Flight 243 remained controllable and was able to land safely despite a huge hole in the fuselage. Even though the explosive decompression took place at ~24,000 feet, passengers who were belted in remained in place despite the buffetting. Of the stewardesses, only one of the three were swept out of the plane when the fuselage gave way. The others were knocked down and were able to assist the passengers despite not being belted in.

 

A fight in an airplane at 2,000 feet is hazardous not so much because you might be sucked out of the plane, but because a plane is a relatively fragile vehicle and it's quite possible that combatting supers could destroy the @#$% thing before one side subdues the other.