Somorn Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I was knocking some thoughts and ideas around with my group the other day and we got to "discussing" the Golden Age of comics. I thought I would get some thoughts and ideas from you all to bring back up when we meet next, so the question is..... What limits would you impose on a Golden Age character? Also just how far advanced should the gadgeteer be able to advance tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts I'm not sure if I would place any hard limits on powers or a character. That said I would have a conversation with my players and make sure we all agreed on the over all tone of the campaign. Maybe discuss some of the source martial with them to help make sure everyone had the same feel for the campaign. I could see a degree of confusion between the war stories and heroes verses the mystery men styled characters. That's more The Shadow and less The Shoveler. Overall I think it's important that everyone see what each other is playing to make sure the mesh well together to meet that overall tone. Normally I'm more of a hidden back story, bring it out through role-playing type but when you are trying to capture a mood and tone this may need to be put aside at least initially. As for the Gadgeteer, I think this again depends on what the group feels is appropriate stylistically. If everyone is in agreement with the overall flavor of the campaign although there may be some sticky, why can't I build the A-Bomb thirty years early type things as a whole if everyone if in honest agreement I doubt it would be too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somorn Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts -snip- As for the Gadgeteer, I think this again depends on what the group feels is appropriate stylistically. If everyone is in agreement with the overall flavor of the campaign although there may be some sticky, why can't I build the A-Bomb thirty years early type things as a whole if everyone if in honest agreement I doubt it would be too bad. thats a great answer. and thanks for the post. I was thinking more along the lines of timestream limits. For instance unless I am wrong the Earilest Iron Man was all transistor technology, were as now its nano-machines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts I think the thing with the gadgeteer comes down to "feel". Golden Age "technology" was able to transplant a human brain in a robot (Robotman), build flying cars (Star Spangled Kid, I think), create super-soldier serums (Cap, Hourman) and build things like Starman's Gravity Rod. This is a pretty broad range of capabilities, to put it mildly. What I think differentiates it from "modern super-technology" is the language used to describe it. Basically, nobody talked about nanotech, or even transistors, in the Golden Age. My impression, in fact, is that technobabble was generally avoided. Things just worked, and there seemed to have been little imperative to describe how they worked. That would be how I would handle things. Incidentally, one of my favourite Golden Age gadgeteers was Air Wave - who had the incredible power of making phone calls from anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts I think the thing with the gadgeteer comes down to "feel". Golden Age "technology" was able to transplant a human brain in a robot (Robotman), build flying cars (Star Spangled Kid, I think), create super-soldier serums (Cap, Hourman) and build things like Starman's Gravity Rod. This is a pretty broad range of capabilities, to put it mildly. What I think differentiates it from "modern super-technology" is the language used to describe it. Basically, nobody talked about nanotech, or even transistors, in the Golden Age. My impression, in fact, is that technobabble was generally avoided. Things just worked, and there seemed to have been little imperative to describe how they worked. That would be how I would handle things. Incidentally, one of my favourite Golden Age gadgeteers was Air Wave - who had the incredible power of making phone calls from anywhere. Yup, as I described him once...He had a cell phone before anyone else did, and his was an earpiece as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts i remember reading inthe original golden age champions that martial arts would be described[in the case of VANGUARD I] as a combination of boxing and wrestling moves also golden age heroes powers ween't a strong as moder day heroes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts i remember reading inthe original golden age champions that martial arts would be described[in the case of VANGUARD I] as a combination of boxing and wrestling moves also golden age heroes powers ween't a strong as moder day heroes Martial arts could be described in those terms. On the other hand, Batman was using Jiu-Jitsu/Judo moves from very early on. It was made explicit in Robin's first story. Power levels varied as much in the Golden Age as in the present day. The Spectre was wildly powerful. The Atom was a boxer in a mask. On the other hand, there weren't the characters that have been being published for decades, with the resulting levels of power inflation. In that sense, the Golden Age characters could be considered to be simpler. I wouldn't go with weaker, although non-powered characters were probably a bit more common. But really, when you are dealing with Champions PCs, there wouldn't be much difference. Starting characters can only buy so much stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts Martial arts could be described in those terms. On the other hand, Batman was using Jiu-Jitsu/Judo moves from very early on. It was made explicit in Robin's first story. As a supporting point: Teddy Roosevelt was a Jui-Jitsu enthusiest before WWI. So there's at least one high profile person who was known to be into it even before the golden era. And with the asian influx into the United States in the 1800's there's no reason someone couldn't come up with a backstory to support the inclusion of a martial arts style. However, it wasn't really the zeitgeist of the era, even into the ear 1960's. It was the late 60's and beyond that saw a media frenzy around asian martial arts. Another option is european martial arts: kampfringen is similiar to win chun in some respects, and savate is a good "kick boxing" choice. I tend to prefer enabling concepts as much as possible, though sometimes tone can only be stretched so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts To Von D-Man's point, often when I picture a Golden Age hero they are well traveled. Albeit that is in the past and they are likely never to much traveling again unless that is the scope of the campaign. So strange martial arts or Asian magic/powers of the mind are not out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts What limits would you impose on a Golden Age character? ? About the same ones I'd use for a modern game. Although the Golden Age had a lot more characters who weren't using anything except college boxing and a peculiar sense of fashion, they also had some reasonably heavy hitters like Namor, the Human Torch, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and Superman, who wasn't quite moving planets yet, but rapidly escalated from his initial parameters. As for gadgeteers, most of them are villains (there were good inventors but they didn't turn out one gadget after another), and they could make anything the plot called for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts Golden Age heroes should be low level, 150+100 points, to reflect the more realistic expectations of heroes at the time. Remember any powers could be used, but the special effects and limitations are what make them golden age. Air Wave's powers, for example, could just be Teleportation limited to "Along phone lines." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts Wikipedia: Air Wave In my Golden Age campaigns,I encouraged the players to be just a little bit tongue-in-cheek with their character concepts. One of my favorite characters was an Italian-American scientist whose labratory accident turned him into Elastico, the rubber hero. Elastico was a "bouncy brick". The SFX of his superleap was that he'd turn into a big ball and bounce wherever he was going. One of his bigger attacks had the special effect of him swelling his hand to the size of a basketball before striking (for extra dice). Elastico helped set the tone for the campaign, preventing it from turning excessively "grim and gritty". Tex Jones was another character who helped set the tone in this campaign. He was an aviator/inventor who had a fast plane (~400 MPH) and a beanbag gun. His player was a fun guy and so, as a consequence, was the character. TJ was mainly the other characters' fast ride to distant adventure, but he was also instrumental in breaking the gangs in/around Chicago. He so impressed some gangsters that they reformed just so they could work for Tex in whatever capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts Golden Age heroes should be low level, 150+100 points, to reflect the more realistic expectations of heroes at the time. Remember any powers could be used, but the special effects and limitations are what make them golden age. Air Wave's powers, for example, could just be Teleportation limited to "Along phone lines." I'm not sure if I agree with everything here. The feel of the powers are part of what make the hero stand out from that era. Even if the expectations were diffrent we still had some supers that were bouncing bullets back then. The point value may be a factor depending on what the players and GM's expectations are but I think even Golden Age Captain America and most of the All Winners Squad (not counting the side kicks also see DNPCs) could easily justify the normal 200 + 150 threshold. That's not even touching the classic DC lines. However, if you are looking at more of a Mystery Men type feel, business suits, trench coat optional, and a mask for flair, some with some without powers or the war stories focusing on solders the lower starting point may be more your thing. Either way, I think the troupe should be looking at conversations around scope, scale and feel. This seems to help with any campaign. Once everyone is at a consensus then look to what points fit that model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts Just a quick aside, this thread made me think of a Something Positive strip that ran last year. The link goes to the start of the story arc, six pages. Forgive them for their system of choice but I thought the strip was funny and strangely applicable to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts I'm not sure if I agree with everything here. The feel of the powers are part of what make the hero stand out from that era. Even if the expectations were diffrent we still had some supers that were bouncing bullets back then. The point value may be a factor depending on what the players and GM's expectations are but I think even Golden Age Captain America and most of the All Winners Squad (not counting the side kicks also see DNPCs) could easily justify the normal 200 + 150 threshold. That's not even touching the classic DC lines. And of course Captain Marvel and the little marvels, Ibis the Invincible, who would do stuff like surrounding entire cities with impenetrable force fields, Samson, Hugh Hazard and his Robot, Magno. There were serious heavy hitters in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts I'm on the fence when it comes to point totals. A lot can be done on 250 points, but 350 can allow better rounded versions of the characters. I've already commented on power levels. Let's just say that I can't see any good reason for building a beginning version of the Golden Age Flash, for instance, on fewer points than the equivalent versions of his more modern counterparts. Of course, the Champions genre book suggests 250 points for Silver Age characters too! And yes, you can build a 250 point Flash that does what the Silver Age character could do in his early appearances. The Golden Age version was described with more hyperbole, suggesting that he could run at the speed of light - which he didn't actually seem to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts The Golden Age was a different time. On the one hand there were a LOT of normal guys in suits who were fighting crime with just their wits, fists, and maybe a weapon. But there were also a lot of really high powered characters. Today, the majority of the normal guys with costumes, fists and wits are gone. A few hang on, but generally, there is a feeling of "they don't belong". In the golden age, one could read Leading Comics and get stories of the Seven Soldeiers of Victory - the only part of the team that actually had a super power was Winged Victory... the Shining Knight's flying bulletproof HORSE!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts The Golden Age was a different time. On the one hand there were a LOT of normal guys in suits who were fighting crime with just their wits, fists, and maybe a weapon. But there were also a lot of really high powered characters. Today, the majority of the normal guys with costumes, fists and wits are gone. A few hang on, but generally, there is a feeling of "they don't belong". In the golden age, one could read Leading Comics and get stories of the Seven Soldeiers of Victory - the only part of the team that actually had a super power was Winged Victory... the Shining Knight's flying bulletproof HORSE!!!!! a good example of non powered heroes not belonging was in the karate kid episode of legion of superheroes the legion didn't think kk was good enough to jpin them because his MA training wasn't a superpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somorn Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Re: Golden Age thoughts a good example of non powered heroes not belonging was in the karate kid episode of legion of superheroes the legion didn't think kk was good enough to jpin them because his MA training wasn't a superpower Thats a good one! I had almost forgotten about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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