Fistcannon?

[AwesomusPrime]

I started my first campaign last night, in the super heroic genre. One of my players had what I thought was a very good concept, a street fighter who could alter the density of his fists. After toying with the idea of several home-made limitations to increase density (reducing the mass added, limiting the body parts it was used on, limiting the number of effects gained) I decided it would be easier to simply buy it as a high strength (for lifting) and a hand-to-hand attack (for the added damage). He opted to do this, and decided this was the only power he wanted.

 

Here's the problem, he bought a well rounded number of other characteristics, skills talents and perks, and bought very few disadvantages, but because he has 200 character points to work with and a single power essentially he can do 50d6 damage (factoring in knockback) with his attack.

 

He bought 65 STR for 13d6, and an additional 14d6 HA, and added the advantage does 1.5X knockback. A total of 135 points.

 

Should I consider him overpowered, or should I take into account that the other players can all do other things and he's lost at range? His defenses are average at best and he does need to be right up next to someone to do anything.

 

I wouldn't let him buy stretching, for obvious reasons.

[Steve Long]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

This isn't a rules question but a request for GMing advice and input, so I've moved it to the Discussion board.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Should I consider him overpowered, or should I take into account that the other players can all do other things and he's lost at range? His defenses are average at best and he does need to be right up next to someone to do anything.

 

I wouldn't let him buy stretching, for obvious reasons.

 

This is why damage/AP caps tend to be a good idea for starting GM's

 

That would definitely be overpowered in any game I've ever played in, but I"m sure somone around here is looking at that thinking that it would be OK for their games...

 

So, that said, are the enemies able to take that kind of beating and still provide a challenge or is basically able to knock out anyone so long as he can hit them?

 

What kind of damage do the enemies and other team members do? What kind of defenses does everyone have?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Any character who pumps all his points into a single ability will be overpowered in some circumstances and underpowered in others. I would consider him overpowered and unbalanced.

 

Your comments indicate he will be unbeatable in melee range and helpless outside of it. To me, that doesn't sound like a fun character to play. Either he one punches the opponent or he's frustrated because he can't do anything.

 

How do you challenge the character? Build an opponent melee character with defenses to stand up to a 27d6 attack? OK, what if he wins? The other characters presumably can't do anything to harm him unless their attacks are also in the 27d6 range.

 

If you want that to be your only power, that's fine. In my game, that might mean you do a bit more damage than the norm (maybe 14d6 in a 12d6 game). But it doesn't mean you can spend as many points as you want on a single power and vastly overpower your teammates and the opposition as a result.

[Susano]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

As was said by others, this is what a Damage Cap is for. If you state your game will allow 12-14 DC attacks, than this guy with this 65 STR and 14d6 of HA is going to have to rethink his ideas.

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Thanks for the replies, I thought this might be more of a discussion question but then I'd already posted and didn't want to double...

 

Anyway, I do have some Melee bosses worked out with high TP abilities who I'd envisioned as a sort of hit and run. This guy is an experienced RPGer and may decide to change it on his own after a play session or two, but I might firmly suggest he change it in advance.

 

I'm hesitant to impose a limit after telling the players there was no limit, but they'll understand if I do.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

The special effect described is very similar to some of the abilities my namesake character has.

 

Take a look at the link in my SIG below to see the character.

 

Coincidentally, the character could have been built with a 65 STR + 12d6 HA as well. I chose to use Advantaged HA's instead which have strict limits on increasing the Advantaged damage with STR.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Thanks for the replies, I thought this might be more of a discussion question but then I'd already posted and didn't want to double...

 

Anyway, I do have some Melee bosses worked out with high TP abilities who I'd envisioned as a sort of hit and run. This guy is an experienced RPGer and may decide to change it on his own after a play session or two, but I might firmly suggest he change it in advance.

 

I'm hesitant to impose a limit after telling the players there was no limit, but they'll understand if I do.

 

IMO if you are building villains to combat a specific character (unless they are Hunters, perhaps) then something is wrong. A character built as you describe may or may not be fun to play - the player made it, so I'm not too worried about their enjoyment on that score - but sounds like a pain in the neck for the other players. He's either getting kicked around by energy projectors or solving all teh force based problems himself: impenetrable vault door? Not against 27d6 it isn't! Supervillain? Superpulp!

 

I'd be more interested in keeping the rest of the group happy, personally. If they like watching him steal the glory or be useless, cool. Otherwise, have a word.

 

Of course if they've all come up with characters like this and you all enjoy really short combats, knock yourself out.

 

So to speak.

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Well we played a session and things went alright. To answer your concern Sean, the bosses I mentioned predate the character, so I'm not too worried about that.

 

The Player/character in question when fleshing out his story decided he was a former cage fighter whose mutant ability to increase the density of a specific limb manifested during a match, killing his opponent. As a result he took Hunted: Wanted for Murder, Code vs Killing, and Berserk: Severe Wound. This way he never uses his super powers unless berserk, and I decide when he can fly off the handle. He also bought a bunch of Martial Arts, the result is that he tosses and disarms characters, while two other characters hold and/or blast them and the fourth character (who is made of water) delivers the knock out blow.

 

We did find out he misspent points though, so now even more than before his other stats are looking low. I told the group that since we're all new to the game we can have a GM monitered respec of characters in a few weeks if players so desire.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Well we played a session and things went alright. To answer your concern Sean, the bosses I mentioned predate the character, so I'm not too worried about that.

 

The Player/character in question when fleshing out his story decided he was a former cage fighter whose mutant ability to increase the density of a specific limb manifested during a match, killing his opponent. As a result he took Hunted: Wanted for Murder, Code vs Killing, and Berserk: Severe Wound. This way he never uses his super powers unless berserk, and I decide when he can fly off the handle. He also bought a bunch of Martial Arts, the result is that he tosses and disarms characters, while two other characters hold and/or blast them and the fourth character (who is made of water) delivers the knock out blow.

 

We did find out he misspent points though, so now even more than before his other stats are looking low. I told the group that since we're all new to the game we can have a GM monitered respec of characters in a few weeks if players so desire.

 

Sounds very sensible - you clearly have it well in hand

[Kdansky]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

I told the group that since we're all new to the game we can have a GM monitered respec of characters in a few weeks if players so desire.

I advise to go one step further on this: There is really no problem if a player redesigns his character sheet from time to time. There are two cases for this:

 

A: Rules

During the game, you might find a rules problem. Or one of his powers is way too good (or useless), or completely mispriced. Or the Limitation he took is not limiting at all. Or it's coming into play every three minutes and annoying everyone. Or the character is supposed to be fast (speedster), but in practice, all other characters have about the same speed and movement powers, so he is average at best.

In short: If rules conflict with how the character was envisioned, just rewrite the character. There is really no point in having an unhappy player at the table, or being forced to design around a particularily broken power construct.

 

B: Concept

When I write up characters, I have certain concepts in mind. Certain personalities, and certain powers. But none of that is finalized before first session. Sometimes an interesting twist comes up, or the character relates particularily well/bad to other PCs (resulting in a Rival, or making him unplayable in the context). You might have envisioned the character as a total smartass, but at the table, you get outsmartassed by another PC (because his player is better at it than you are, true story ).

So again, spare yourself the ugly problem of having to stick to a concept which does not work well, and just rewrite the sheet. After all, the sheet has to fit the concept, not the other way around.

 

My first (hero) character started out first session as a smart brick and ended up an overconfident, naive speedster. And it's one of the best characters I ever had. But his background story never changed, because that is not rules and character sheet.

[Tech]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

I started my first campaign last night, in the super heroic genre. One of my players had what I thought was a very good concept, a street fighter who could alter the density of his fists. After toying with the idea of several home-made limitations to increase density (reducing the mass added, limiting the body parts it was used on, limiting the number of effects gained) I decided it would be easier to simply buy it as a high strength (for lifting) and a hand-to-hand attack (for the added damage). He opted to do this, and decided this was the only power he wanted.

 

Here's the problem, he bought a well rounded number of other characteristics, skills talents and perks, and bought very few disadvantages, but because he has 200 character points to work with and a single power essentially he can do 50d6 damage (factoring in knockback) with his attack.

 

He bought 65 STR for 13d6, and an additional 14d6 HA, and added the advantage does 1.5X knockback. A total of 135 points.

 

Should I consider him overpowered, or should I take into account that the other players can all do other things and he's lost at range? His defenses are average at best and he does need to be right up next to someone to do anything.

 

I wouldn't let him buy stretching, for obvious reasons.

 

It's one thing to say that you don't have any point limits, it's another thing to throw 'all' your points into one power. My questions to you are: what kind of villains do you have? Are they around 10d6, 12d6, 14d6 attackers or more? What kind of defenses do they have on the average; 25 PD, 30 PD, 15 PD? Can the player justify the power doing that much damage with the power? Is this character going to end up hurting/killing a few/most/all your villains? Are other players going to get upset when they see this character the player proposes to play because he can one-punch anyone and does he/she overshadow overone else?

 

You've got to consider these things or your campaign may be in for surprising serious repercussions.

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: Fistcannon?

 

Well since just as an update, and an answer to you Tech, we've played three sessions and things have gone well. I generally tend to toss one or two brutish characters in with every group and even before this character was brought to the table I had some heavy hitting NPCs (not entirely a villain but one reoccurring NPC, who the PCs are not always on good terms with, has a 20d6 NND, and 10d6 of luck). So there are threats that warrent a PC of such force.

 

two of my four have varied powers and abilities, one is this guy and one other has a varied character sheet, but massive amounts of TK.

 

Anyway, this guy has taken on the role of keeping heavy hitters busy, and because of his Psych limitation even when fighting a guy he knew could take the whole chunk of dice, he couldn't justify to himself using more than 12d6. I think this player is playing it well, in fact his power itself has become more of a disadvantage, in that a chunk of his character points are tied to an ability he is terrified to use.

 

Despite the fact that I probably wouldn't let it happen again, I couldn't be happier with this player's choice of point spending.