PRE Attacks

[Qelan]

Presence attacks, in our Super Heroic setting the characters like getting off a presence attack now and then but when a villain uses them it puts the players in a bad mood. It seems they can be slapped around with energy bolts and death rays without much of a problem but as soon as a villain uses his commanding aura or superior tactical advantage in making a presence attack it kills most if not all the jovial and/or entertainment out of the game.

 

So, I have been wondering how others (GMs) handle PRE attacks in their games, maybe limiting them to PC use or some other approach?

 

Maybe I just been around too many temperamental players?

[jtelson]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

If your players never or very rarely used them and found that they were getting pounded by them repeatedly I could understand being a little frustrated by Pre attacks. They are a relatively inexpensive way to potentially gain a significant advantage in combat.

 

As a GM I tend to limit the use of Presence attacks to epic moments unless the idea of the PRE attack is part of the villian's core concept. (Note: I don't limit my players' use of them at all)

 

That being said this is Hero, if a player doesn't want to be affected by Pre attacks, the defence is cheap.

[Sean Waters]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

Hero doesn't really 'like' the idea of affecting players - the mind set started with interaction skills and kind of spills over into PRE attacks and, IME, whilst most players will put up with mind control if they have to, they will argue that what they are being required to do is at a higher level than it really is - Hero players, perhaps more than many other game players, resent GM control of their characters. I think it is because they have so much control over other aspects of the character.

 

PRE is a bit of a blunt - and powerful - instrument. Part of the problem is that players feel that they are being overawed in some way and it is a rare player who can admit that his or her character is not so cool that nothing phases them, ever.

 

What I'd be inclined to do is psych them a bit: don't call it a PRE attack, call it a distraction attack, or just a distraction. The effects could be changed to make the whole thing less mighty, but still worth doing.

 

Exceeds PRE: reduced DEX (character acts on 1/2 DEX next action)

Exceeds PRE+10: lost half phase (take inappropriate/useless half action)

Exceeds PRE+20: lost phase (take inappropriate/useless action)

Exceeds PRE+30: lost phase (take movement action helpful to attacker, GM defined/approved)

Exceeds PRE+40: lost phase (take attack action helpful to attacker, GM defined/approved)

 

That way the player can tell tehmselves their character was fooled, and that their underwear remains unsoiled. I bet that would work. It also gets rid of the astonishingly powerful 'cowering in abject awe/fear' side of things AND put specific time limits on how long things take. I think that is a good thing all round.

 

While I'm at it, I'm defining PRE as instant (a zero phase action). If someone wants an aura of godlike astonishingness then they need a constant power, and so need to buy their PRE with the 'constant' advantage. You could maintain defensive PRE as constant OR say that it needs to be activated as a zero phase action: then if you are PREattacked on your phase you are better able to deal with it than if you are attacked before your phase (when you would have to default to EGO).

 

Something to ponder, anyway.

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

I admit I'm new to the game, but my players and I are enjoying the PRE attacks and their almost exclusively being used by my NPCs.

 

Actually the way I've been using the mechanic is to represent the emotional environment of the situation and have been using presence outwardly as the character's imposition on his environment, and inwardly as the character's ability to accept stressful stimulae.

 

For example when the players encountered a horrbly mutated homeless man, they were subject to a PRE attack, and when one PC who has a body made of water handed a purse back to a woman who was robbed he made a PRE attack on her.

 

Largely I've been rolling these attacks myself and simply stating the outcome to the players, but they do enjoy the mechanic by and large, and are aware that they can consciously attempt to affect someone's perception of the situation.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

My take on this, and many similar issues, is simple. If the group wants to change the PRE attack rules, change them. But any change applies equally to PC's and NPC's. If PRE attacks don't work on PC's, then they don't work on NPC's, or at least major NPC's.

 

Similarly, if the players want immunity from interaction skills, the same applies to, at least, major NPC's. You want a 1 pip penetrating KA to follow the FAQ and automatically get 1 BOD through, absent hardened defenses? Fine, but it works that way for the villains as well. And so on.

[Mike W]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

I tend to only use PRE attacks against players with the following three rules in mind:

 

1. Try not to use them a lot unless the players do also.

2. Save them for epic/cinematic moments.

3. Only big bad guys get them, not run of the mill villains or agents.

[ghost-angel]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

I think you can keep them, just change what happens.

 

Players, some players at lesat, like codified effects. An Energy Blast effects them and they add up numbers and see how much damage they took, and then they decide how affected they are by that - limping, heroically keep going, don't even notice, etc. . .

 

PRE Attacks introduce the element (and Mental Powers in general sometimes) that you the GM are telling the Player what to do and how to react.

 

Instead use a penalty system... if a PRE Attack is

EGO + 0 = Player is at a -1OCV

EGO + 10 = Player is at a -1DCV

EGO + 20 = Player is at -1OCV & DCV

EGO + 30 = Player loses 1/2 a Phase.

(or whatever your group decides is fair, I just made stuff up as an example)

 

This gives an Effect, but leaves the Reason up to the Player. Awe, Fear, Creeped Out, etc. . .

 

If the PRE Attack is something like a Fear Aura you know the player is Afraid, but how that comes out is up to them (Shoots blindly, forgets to get cover, runs, etc).

 

This let's PRE Attacks have an effect on the game, but still allows the Players some level of In Character Control of their feelings/actions.

[ideasmith]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

I wouldn't change the mechanics. However, I recommend letting the player of a character targetted by a PRE attack choose the character's emotions. As in "Okay, something about Mechanons actions strike Supercool as funny and he is ROFL for the Full Phase.'

[Qelan]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

A lot of good ideas here, I particularly like the combat modifier idea Ghost Angel mentioned because it will leave how a player responds up to them but still provide a negative game mechanic as a side effect of being PRE attacked.

[Sean Waters]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

One possible use for PRE attacks, that seems entirely appropriate, might be to enrage or cow an opponent. It would have the following effect 's (inspired by Ghost Angel suggestion):

 

Enrage attempt (all effects are cumulative as appropriate) -

Exceeds PRE: Cannot disengage from combat

Exceeds PRE+10: Cannot use defensive maneuvers

Exceeds PRE+20: All levels must be allocated to OCV

Exceeds PRE+30: All levels must be allocated to increase damage

 

The plan would be that there are different charts depending on what effect you were aiming for, making PRE attacks far more customiseable and appropriate for the character. You could have a number of popular PRE charts and rules for creating your own. Any given character might pick one PRE chart that they can use (i.e. Mr Terrifying might pick the Fear PRE chart, or the Cow (as in make timid, not make moo) PRE chart. A character could pick twice as many PRE charts for +5 points.

[pinecone]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

Presence attacks, in our Super Heroic setting the characters like getting off a presence attack now and then but when a villain uses them it puts the players in a bad mood. It seems they can be slapped around with energy bolts and death rays without much of a problem but as soon as a villain uses his commanding aura or superior tactical advantage in making a presence attack it kills most if not all the jovial and/or entertainment out of the game.

 

So, I have been wondering how others (GMs) handle PRE attacks in their games, maybe limiting them to PC use or some other approach?

 

Maybe I just been around too many temperamental players?

 

Yeah, just a buncha whiners....but adjusting to peoples quirks is a good idea anyway...

[薔薇語]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

Presence attacks, in our Super Heroic setting the characters like getting off a presence attack now and then but when a villain uses them it puts the players in a bad mood. It seems they can be slapped around with energy bolts and death rays without much of a problem but as soon as a villain uses his commanding aura or superior tactical advantage in making a presence attack it kills most if not all the jovial and/or entertainment out of the game.

 

So, I have been wondering how others (GMs) handle PRE attacks in their games, maybe limiting them to PC use or some other approach?

 

Maybe I just been around too many temperamental players?

 

 

That just seems like bad sportmanship. When I was playing The Rose in a champions game, one of his main shticks was the liberal use of Pre attacks. Although it was unlikely for him to be phased by one (high pre and overconfident attitude), I would roll with the punch just the same as if I was shot with an energy blast. An old adage comes to mind: "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." If you Can't stand to be Pre attacked then Don't ever Pre attack yourself. And that should be a base rule prior to the start of the game.

 

But all in all I Like some of the suggestions for how to handle the effects so as to streemline game effect while opening up character reaction to be the sole choice of the Player. Although I think any good gaming group can rationalize out ways to resolve the effects amicably.

 

La Rose

[Outsider]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

If the characters are regularly crapping their pants at the bad guy's Presence Attacks (getting +20ed or +30ed) they probably skimped on Presence to save points. If you're facing Mechanon, a 'normal' range presence (up to 20) just isn't up to snuff, sorry.

 

Continue using PRE attacks, and either encourage your players to spend EXP on Presence (only to defend -1), or award it directly as a bonus.

 

One way to work the bonus :

Each time a PC is Presence Attacked, he gets a hash mark for each level of effect it has on him. So attacks that do not exceed his PRE/EGO result in 0 hash marks, while those that do PRE/EGO+30 earn 4.

 

Every 4 hash marks can be turned in for 1 PRE (Only to resist PRE Attacks, -1)

 

After a while, they will be 'battle hardened' and much harder to impress.

[薔薇語]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

If the characters are regularly crapping their pants at the bad guy's Presence Attacks (getting +20ed or +30ed) they probably skimped on Presence to save points. If you're facing Mechanon, a 'normal' range presence (up to 20) just isn't up to snuff, sorry.

 

 

 

Continue using PRE attacks, and either encourage your players to spend EXP on Presence (only to defend -1), or award it directly as a bonus.

 

 

 

One way to work the bonus :

 

Each time a PC is Presence Attacked, he gets a hash mark for each level of effect it has on him. So attacks that do not exceed his PRE/EGO result in 0 hash marks, while those that do PRE/EGO+30 earn 4.

 

 

 

Every 4 hash marks can be turned in for 1 PRE (Only to resist PRE Attacks, -1)

 

 

 

After a while, they will be 'battle hardened' and much harder to impress.

 

 

 

repped

 

That is a good Idea, I think will incorporate that as a standard in my games.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

La Rose

[Qelan]

Re: PRE Attacks

 

I agree with The Rose, It is like an alternate form of experience that I feel will help add to the immersion of the campaign. I am getting a lot of good ideas from this thread. Thanks for all the input.