Bedouin tribesmen

[Trebuchet]

I'll be running a PH scenario this weekend set in the Mideast in 1907. I plan to throw some Bedouin tribesmen at them as a desert encounter.

 

What do you guys figure typical desert marauders circa 1907 would look like? I'm thinking scimitars and maybe single-shot rifles...

[bubba smith]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

that would sound right don'f forget daggers and archery

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Yeah. Also, unless these tribesmen are regularly supplied from one particular source, then their weaponry would probably be VERY mixed - whatever can be carried on camelback and goes Bang or Boom, basically. Reliability and accuracy similarly varied, natch.

One guy might have a fairly contemporary rifle, while his buddy carries a big-bore muzzle-loader maybe seventy years old.

 

Much also depends on the flavour of your campaign. Would these trbesmen make a massed frontal cavalry charge at first sight? Or make a series of smash 'n' grab raids? Or (the smart option) do some sniping'n'snooping first, thus getting the measure of the opposition? Most probably a combination of all of these, I would guess.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Melee: scimitar, spear.

Long range: jezail (long-barrelled smoothbore musket) or single-shot breechloading .45cal black powder percussion rifle of French or British design. A short bow is less likely, but possible.

[hooligan x]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

I am so watching Lawrence of Arabia when I get home.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Yeah. Also, unless these tribesmen are regularly supplied from one particular source, then their weaponry would probably be VERY mixed - whatever can be carried on camelback and goes Bang or Boom, basically. Reliability and accuracy similarly varied, natch.

 

One guy might have a fairly contemporary rifle, while his buddy carries a big-bore muzzle-loader maybe seventy years old.

Well worth remembering. Thanks.

 

Much also depends on the flavour of your campaign. Would these tribesmen make a massed frontal cavalry charge at first sight? Or make a series of smash 'n' grab raids? Or (the smart option) do some sniping 'n' snooping first, thus getting the measure of the opposition? Most probably a combination of all of these, I would guess.

I'm looking at small raiding parties of between 10 and 15 mounted tribesmen to go up against our 5 PCs - a less than even match as the PCs should triumph in any clash of arms on this small scale.

 

Of course, the whole tribe should be a different matter...

[Basil]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

By 1907 the jezail will have been joined by various multi-shot designs: everything from pre-American-Civil-War Sharp's-based rifles to knockoffs of the Springfield M1903.

 

Note: the best small-scale firearms makers in the Middle East are the Afghans. Remember, bedouin are found no farther east than west-central Iraq; thus, bedouin will either have poorer-quality locally made firearms, or European-made firearms they've bought (US-made firearms are unlikely).

 

They will also have swords and other melee weapons, slings, bows-and-arrows, and perhaps throwing spears.

[Badger]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Well worth remembering. Thanks.

 

I'm looking at small raiding parties of between 10 and 15 mounted tribesmen to go up against our 5 PCs - a less than even match as the PCs should triumph in any clash of arms on this small scale.

 

Of course, the whole tribe should be a different matter...

 

 

 

With that low number, some variation of a sneak attack would probably be best. Dont want to make it too easy.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

With that low number' date=' some variation of a sneak attack would probably be best. Dont want to make it too easy. [/quote']

 

Agreed. Also, if they are playing it reasonably smart, they might well try for psych warfare - keep the PCs unsure as to just how many of them there really are.

 

There is the famous old trick of travelling single file to hide numbers or, alternatively, dragging something along behind to kick up large clouds of sand / dust so it looks like there are a lot more of them than there really are.

 

You don't have to actually put the PCs into lots of fights here. Just plant the idea that there could perhaps be HUNDREDS of hostile tribespeople waiting just over the next sand dune, or behind that mesa to the left, or wherever. Enormous entertainment value for the GM, and the PCs certainly will not be getting bored or complacent.

[pinecone]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Yeah, and don't forgett some redshirts......Someone goes for water, and never comes back, someone takes a leak, and dissapears...etc...

 

I remember from something I read that the tribesmen were fiendish torturers...but that might be propaganda....

[Basil]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Ya know, a lot of the bedouins will be arms with Lee-Enfield (British) rifles, or older Lee-Metfords. Plus some French arms, or German.

 

In fact, your setting is in the latter days, and west edge, of The Great Game; that is, the part(s) Germany got involved with, with the Berlin-to-Bagdad Railroad. So it's quite possible the bedouin tribe that's giving the PCs problems may be in the pay of Germany.

[Badger]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Agreed. Also, if they are playing it reasonably smart, they might well try for psych warfare - keep the PCs unsure as to just how many of them there really are.

 

There is the famous old trick of travelling single file to hide numbers or, alternatively, dragging something along behind to kick up large clouds of sand / dust so it looks like there are a lot more of them than there really are.

 

You don't have to actually put the PCs into lots of fights here. Just plant the idea that there could perhaps be HUNDREDS of hostile tribespeople waiting just over the next sand dune, or behind that mesa to the left, or wherever. Enormous entertainment value for the GM, and the PCs certainly will not be getting bored or complacent.

 

Heh, I was thinking of a few "psychological tricks" when I type "some variation of sneak attack. (though not in depth as you). You truly are twisted. You're my hero.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Agreed. Also, if they are playing it reasonably smart, they might well try for psych warfare - keep the PCs unsure as to just how many of them there really are.

 

There is the famous old trick of travelling single file to hide numbers or, alternatively, dragging something along behind to kick up large clouds of sand / dust so it looks like there are a lot more of them than there really are.

 

You don't have to actually put the PCs into lots of fights here. Just plant the idea that there could perhaps be HUNDREDS of hostile tribespeople waiting just over the next sand dune, or behind that mesa to the left, or wherever. Enormous entertainment value for the GM, and the PCs certainly will not be getting bored or complacent.

I threw 9 sword-armed tribesmen against 3 of the PCs today. They killed 4, mortally wounded 2, and captured 3 in half a Turn. Just to keep the heroes from becoming too complacent, they found out during the subsequent the bedouins' tribe was getting modern weapons, including breech-loading rifles and 37mm "pom pom" guns - essentially rapid-firing cannons.

 

Next session they need to track down the source of the weapons and try to intercept those already enroute. And deal, of course, with those hundreds of angry tribesmen.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Just out of curiosity, where are these guys?

 

(By the way, successful magazine rifles, as opposed to toys like the Sharps carbine, are a surprisingly late technology. Small numbers of modern rifles played a very large part in making the 1898 Northwest Frontier war such a hairy exercise. In fact, it has been argued that the entire strategic lie of the NWF was transformed by their appearance, and is still out of joint today.)

[Basil]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

...the bedouins' tribe was getting modern weapons' date=' including breech-loading rifles and 37mm "pom pom" guns - essentially rapid-firing cannons. [/quote']

 

is right! One pound exploding shells, with a range, depending on the source (http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyarmaments/machineguns/armpompom.htm or http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/pompom.htm)

of 3 or 4.5 km, and a firing rate of 60/minute! Oy, that's going to be a "challenge" to any team of pulp heroes!

 

Wikipedia, for what it's worth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_1_pounder_pom-pom

[Trebuchet]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Just out of curiosity' date=' where are these guys?[/quote']Right now they're in Damascus (part of the Ottoman Empire) and about to head down the famous Hijaz Railroad towards Medina as the search for the weapons.

 

(By the way, successful magazine rifles, as opposed to toys like the Sharps carbine, are a surprisingly late technology. Small numbers of modern rifles played a very large part in making the 1898 Northwest Frontier war such a hairy exercise. In fact, it has been argued that the entire strategic lie of the NWF was transformed by their appearance, and is still out of joint today.)

That's why I figured a few thousand magazine rifles (French-made Model M1874 Gras) along with a few dozen pom-pom guns and a few hundred Maxim machineguns would materially alter the balance of power.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

is right! One pound exploding shells' date=' with a range, depending on the source of 3 or 4.5 km, and a firing rate of 60/minute! Oy, that's going to be a "challenge" to any team of pulp heroes! [/quote']Well, I have to keep things challenging, you understand.

 

It's unlikely the heroes will actually get shot at with the pom-poms; although since two of them are former British officers they might find occasion to use one during the course of the adventure.

 

If you're interested in seeing the characters they can be found in this thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39623

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

I threw 9 sword-armed tribesmen against 3 of the PCs today. They killed 4, mortally wounded 2, and captured 3 in half a Turn. Just to keep the heroes from becoming too complacent, they found out during the subsequent the bedouins' tribe was getting modern weapons, including breech-loading rifles and 37mm "pom pom" guns - essentially rapid-firing cannons.

 

Next session they need to track down the source of the weapons and try to intercept those already enroute. And deal, of course, with those hundreds of angry tribesmen.

 

Nice going. And H-o-l-y-y-y-y-y Crap!

 

Obviously, the pom-pom is not the sort of thing one could haul around on camelback for raiding, it is more of a defensive weapon (set up to cover chokepoints, or to defend encampments). When the other side has only smallarms, this could a real problem for them.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Nice going. And H-o-l-y-y-y-y-y Crap!

 

Obviously, the pom-pom is not the sort of thing one could haul around on camelback for raiding, it is more of a defensive weapon (set up to cover chokepoints, or to defend encampments). When the other side has only smallarms, this could a real problem for them.

Actually the pom-pom guns had wheels and could be towed behind a team of horses; as the horse-mounted Boers demonstrated when they first used them. IIRC they could also be broken down and carried by mules (and camels, of course). For use by guerrillas setting up ambushes in the mountains of Afghanistan (their ultimate destination) they'd quite deadly.

[st barbara]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

By 1907 the jezail will have been joined by various multi-shot designs: everything from pre-American-Civil-War Sharp's-based rifles to knockoffs of the Springfield M1903.

 

Note: the best small-scale firearms makers in the Middle East are the Afghans. Remember, bedouin are found no farther east than west-central Iraq; thus, bedouin will either have poorer-quality locally made firearms, or European-made firearms they've bought (US-made firearms are unlikely).

 

They will also have swords and other melee weapons, slings, bows-and-arrows, and perhaps throwing spears.

British or French military rifles (.303 Lee-Enfield or Lee- Metfords or 8mm Lebel rifles or contemporary carbines) would also be likely. Bedouins are likely to get their weaponry by raiding after all ! There is also a possibility of Spanish made Mausers (Spain controlled part of Morocco remember) also older weapons such as single shot Martini-Henri's or French Chassepot rifles from the 1880's.

[st barbara]

Re: Bedouin tribesmen

 

Actually the pom-pom guns had wheels and could be towed behind a team of horses; as the horse-mounted Boers demonstrated when they first used them. IIRC they could also be broken down and carried by mules (and camels' date=' of course). For use by guerrillas setting up ambushes in the mountains of Afghanistan (their ultimate destination) they'd quite deadly.[/quote']

Ahh pom-pom guns, always fun ! You might also consider using Hotchkiss revolving cannon (I think that they were available on wheeled carriages in 1, 3 and 6pdr denominations), French Mitrailleuse's (spelling ? a weird french early machine gun,also on wheeled carriages and used in the Franco-Prussian war) or Gatling guns (the Russians used the Goroloff, a copy of the Gatling ,as late as the Russo-Japanes war in 1904 !)