Michael Hopcroft Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 If I were running a campaign based on Superdimensional Fortress Macross (don't use the "R" word around me!), would characters like Hikaru, Max and Roy Focker have to pay character points for their Veritech fighters (especially sinc e Hikaru and Max don't start out with them!)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I would say that it should be an all or none system. Either you go with the system that no one pays points or that everyone pays points. You don't have to have access to your veritech at every single moment. It just kind of guarentees that the player won't lose it (they eventually can repair it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herolover Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Well, I like the "R" word, but we won't go into that. IMO it depends upon how you want to run the campaign. If you want to run it with a "larger" than life type of thing give the players lots of points and they have to spend points to buy their mechs. I would run it as more of a normal Heroic level campaign. In that case I would make the characters up on few points, well 75+75 and write up the mechs as vehicles. As such, the players don't have to pay any points for their equipment per a normal heroic level game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 It really depends on how you're going to be running it. I wouldn't have them paying character points for any of their equipment which would include the veritech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I wouldn't bother charging them with points for the mecha, becasue the Valkyrie mecha are not actually owned by them. I mean, if Hikaru actually went and _bought_ the VF-1S "Skull-1" as military surplus after it had been decommissioned, then yeah, he'd pay the points for it then. But then, the GM could also feel free to impose some disads on the mecha in order to help him afford it in points. Say - maybe take some activation rolls on some systems, since he doesn't have a ground crew to help repair it. Let's face it, military jets are hanger queens at the best of times. And a transforming mecha is insanely complex compared to that. For private ues, you could impose restrictions like that. The reason that the Valkyrie doesn't have "hanger queen" disads and is always ready to go while owned by the UNSPACY is because of the maintenance and ground crew. And Hikaru and Roy _only_ use theirs during missions and under orders. You don't need to stat the disads for a mecha like that unless it becomes an issue. Just my .02 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted February 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Protoculture The effect of "culture" on the Zentradi is quite ... interesting ... in Macross. Obviously it's a major psych lim, as they are simulatenously attracted and repelled by it. But how should that work in game terms when writing up a Zentradi character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Re: Protoculture Originally posted by Michael Hopcroft The effect of "culture" on the Zentradi is quite ... interesting ... in Macross. Obviously it's a major psych lim, as they are simulatenously attracted and repelled by it. But how should that work in game terms when writing up a Zentradi character? Role play it. Seems to complicated to be written up in game terms for any practical effect - at least it does to me. It's been a while since I watched any "R" word but if superdigital forehead MacDuff is anything like it - it is not worth the effort (to write up the psych lim) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted February 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 OK< brief explanation of the difference between Robotech and Macross. In robotech, Protoculture is technological. But in macross, the Protculture were the ancestors of both the humans and the Zentradi. The difference is that Zentradi are cloned as warriors and grown to gigantic size and humans are, well humans. And humans being humans has a disturbing effect on Zentradi. The first time Zentradi saw humans kissing they were so shocked that it caused physical damage. Later on, though, some Zentradi discovered they were quite fond of "culture" and defected from their militaristic lifestyle en masse. This was reflected in things like thediscovery of Lin Minmei's music and meeting a situation like that aboard the macross where men and women work together on a daily basis (among the Zentradi the sexes are segregated). Gradually the Zentradi discovered "culture" for themselves, which they naturally associated with sex. This contamination had dire consequences for the main Zentradi force and for the Earth itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Hopcroft OK< brief explanation of the difference between Robotech and Macross. In robotech, Protoculture is technological. But in macross, the Protculture were the ancestors of both the humans and the Zentradi. The difference is that Zentradi are cloned as warriors and grown to gigantic size and humans are, well humans. And humans being humans has a disturbing effect on Zentradi. The first time Zentradi saw humans kissing they were so shocked that it caused physical damage. Later on, though, some Zentradi discovered they were quite fond of "culture" and defected from their militaristic lifestyle en masse. This was reflected in things like thediscovery of Lin Minmei's music and meeting a situation like that aboard the macross where men and women work together on a daily basis (among the Zentradi the sexes are segregated). Gradually the Zentradi discovered "culture" for themselves, which they naturally associated with sex. This contamination had dire consequences for the main Zentradi force and for the Earth itself.... That's not too far from "R" word. Whether the Zentradi like it or not they had a culture before they discovered Earthlings. Psych Lim: Fascinated by Terran Culture. Common Strong Psych Lim: Internal Conflict with Fascination. Common Strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 I would take a cue from Star Hero on this. Call it a Military SF campaign. 75+75 disads. Consider the v-techs Equipment, not Powers. Which brings us to the big question; Who pays for all this stuff? The Government does. They're mostly career military people. They don't own the vehicles as it is and they can only use them with the approval of their commanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Which brings us to the big question; Who pays for all this stuff? The Government does. I wonder what a government does to earn character points. An experience income tax, maybe? Zeropoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Zeropoint I wonder what a government does to earn character points. An experience income tax, maybe? Zeropoint Don't forget customs, duties, tolls, fees, inheritance, and bonus experience tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Zeropoint I wonder what a government does to earn character points. An experience income tax, maybe? Zeropoint Sorry, I was a bit vague. Basically, I was saying that the veritechs should be written up and converted to credits (or whatever currency you plan to use) per the SH Pricing Guide. The Government (taxpayers) would foot the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 For a military SF show like Macross or Gundam, since the players don't get to choose their mecha, I say the characters do not pay for the mecha. However for a show that has more Superheroic style mecha (G-Gundam, Dangaio, Getter Robo etc) then the characters should most definately pay points for their mecha. For Macross, specificaly, the GM should design the Variable Fighters and assign them accordingly based on the mission at hand. (VF-11's normally, VF-17D's for Stealth missions and occasionaly give out a VF-19 or VF-22 to a player who has done well in the game as a reward) Then again, if you are playing something like Macross 7, maybe the characters should pay points for their mecha....obviously Basara and Mylene paid for theirs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Zeropoint I wonder what a government does to earn character points. An experience income tax, maybe? Zeropoint -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I was a bit vague. Basically, I was saying that the veritechs should be written up and converted to credits (or whatever currency you plan to use) per the SH Pricing Guide. The Government (taxpayers) would foot the bill. I figured as much. I just liked the concept of a government collecting experience points from its citizens. Zeropoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted February 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 One other thing to model The Zentradi are normally giants, but have a device that allows them to "micronize" to human size for inflitration and the like. (And, God, didn't THAT backfire on them!) The process is reversible, but you need to get to a device and have someone run it for you. Humans can't use it to grow to giant size, or at least nobody ever tried. How would you model something like that? Growth/Shrinking Usable on Others, OAF? How big a limitation is Requires an Operator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Re: One other thing to model Originally posted by Michael Hopcroft The Zentradi are normally giants, but have a device that allows them to "micronize" to human size for inflitration and the like. (And, God, didn't THAT backfire on them!) The process is reversible, but you need to get to a device and have someone run it for you. Humans can't use it to grow to giant size, or at least nobody ever tried. How would you model something like that? Growth/Shrinking Usable on Others, OAF? How big a limitation is Requires an Operator? Requires PS: Micronization Device Operation Skill Roll (-1/2) (see FREd page 199) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted March 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Re: Re: One other thing to model Originally posted by Syberdwarf2 Requires PS: Micronization Device Operation Skill Roll (-1/2) (see FREd page 199) Now how to write up the rest of the device. Are normal Zentradi Humans who have been inflicted genetically with Growth, or do they undergo Shrinking to reach human size? Either would have to be 0 END, Persistent with no intermediate stage (you're either human-sized or Zentradi-sized). Since a Zentradi is normally about as tall as a fighter jet is long (and as tall as a veritech fighter is tall), how much growth do I have to model? How much Shrinking must a giant-sized character undergo to reach human size? Sounds like a question for Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 The Zentradi are normally giants, but have a device that allows them to "micronize" to human size for inflitration and the like. (And, God, didn't THAT backfire on them!) The process is reversible, but you need to get to a device and have someone run it for you. Humans can't use it to grow to giant size, or at least nobody ever tried. Not entirely true. There was ONE instance where a human was... er... Macronized? I guess you'd call it that. But it's not _strictly_ canon. In the Macross Do you Remember Love movie from 1984, Maximilian Genius battled Milia, in a battle royale similar to that of the series. And in the end, they got themselves locked inside one of the Zentraedi-sized AIR-LOCKS on board the Cruiser that Milia operated from. They finished their fight, in the dark, after shooting out all the lights, in what was, for the mecha involved, the equivelant of a knife fight inside of a phone booth!!! The upshot of all this, was that in _this_ version of events, both mecha got totally trashed. Milia was wounded, and Max was left onboard the Meltraedi (Female Zentraedi) Cruiser when it folded out ahead of the advancing Zentraedi main battlefleet. Unfortunately, due to this being a movie and there being time constraints and all (Max and Milia both get what amount to only cameo roles in the movie) we don't get to see what happened next. But obviously Max made real nice to both Milia and the Meltraedi, because the next time we see him, he's been MACRONISED to giant size, is wearing a modified Meltraedi combat outfit and is fighting in a Quedluun Rau powered armor on the side of the Meltraedi during the final battle of the movie!! And he and Milia are obviously about as friendly as they were in the series. Imagine Max and Milia fighting in two Quedluun Rau powered armor, and both unleashing a "death blossom" of missiles back to back of each other at one point in the fight! It happened!! It was COOL!!! Unfortunately, the movie is now considered non-canon by the Macross creators. So make of that what you will. Just being a pedantic completist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankuei Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Hi Michael, Actually the protoculture in Macross was the "culture" from which the Zentradi were cloned, hence the reason they were so big on getting it back. It would later come up in Robotech as the funky seed of life cells idea that the "power" of the cell trying to multiply was being converted to power the giant mecha. It's a pretty gruesome idea when you realize the veritechs and the SDF-1 were all being powered by stem cells... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feywulf Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Originally posted by Bankuei Hi Michael, Actually the protoculture in Macross was the "culture" from which the Zentradi were cloned, hence the reason they were so big on getting it back. It would later come up in Robotech as the funky seed of life cells idea that the "power" of the cell trying to multiply was being converted to power the giant mecha. It's a pretty gruesome idea when you realize the veritechs and the SDF-1 were all being powered by stem cells... Chris In the original Macross, it wasn't, but when Carl Macek combined 3 totally separate anime series to make Robotech, he had to change things to tie the stories together. In Robotech, according to the glossary in the palladium rpg based on the series, protoculture is a special plant, a source of unique bio-energy drived from the Invid Flower of Life. The invid use it for nourishment and metaphysical enlightenment. In essence, protoculture is an alien form of pot, which is used as fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 I was always under the impression that the Zentraedi (is that what they were really called in Macross-not-Robotech?) held the belief that 'The Protculture' was some form of Precursor/Progenitor Culture that existed during the reign of some ancient humanoid race from which all other humanoids were descended. this makes sense as this is a common theme in sci-fi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Ewen Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 In Macross the Zentraedi do indeed believe that, mainly because its true -- the people of the Protoculture were the creators of the Zentraedi. The movie, BTW, is not canon, but rather its meant to be a semi-historical motion picture that actually existed within the Macross universe. That's the official explanation anyway; there's also the fact that Macross was originally meant to only be a movie and was expanded into a TV series and the movie was made based on the original movie premise. Here's a good site for Macross info: http://macross.anime.net If you have access to fansubs, I highly recommend checking out the new prequel OAV series, Macross Zero. Macross 7 isn't as good, but is still worth watching if you're a Macross fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Great site! I've known about the Macross Compendium for some time now. Its my source for very detailed information on the various Variable Fighters in the Macross universe. I will be relying upon it heavily in a couple of weeks when I start working on converting the VF's to HERO (yes, I have a copy of TUV now! First Gundam Wing, then Macross!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanb Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hey NSG, Of course you will post your conversions here...won't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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