Luke Cage

[Shaft]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Yeah' date=' I like street levels though...I remember him being "Just more than human" so I went with one step past legundary...Cap is 30, so Luke gets 35. likely too much. Someone upthread mentioned him lifting 3 tons...35 is well past that...[/quote']

 

30? I think Cap's strength is... *must resist urge to derail thread...*

[Bloodstone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

30? I think Cap's strength is... *must resist urge to derail thread...*

 

Do it!!! I triple dog dare ya!!! Ah, never mind, I'll do it myself... Cap has a minimum STR of 24 based on his bench press of 1100 lbs, but it may be more as he likely wasn't trying to set a record that day in the gym with D-man. I give him a minimum STR of 25.

 

Back on topic...

 

Keep in mind, a Marvel lift is basically a Clean and Jerk, where as a HERO System lift is more or less get it off the ground and stagger for a bit.

 

As such, at his weakest, Power Man had a STR of 39.

 

Spider-Man, with his classic 10 Ton lift, is actually a STR of 48 or so, which is where Cage sat for a while as I recall.

 

The 25 Ton lift he's at right now would be just a bit over a 54 STR.

 

Of course, the desire for even amounts of Damage dice would likely turn those into 40, 50 and 55

 

That is, of course, only for someone that wants to simulate Cage as close as possible. For an homage, none of it really matters so long as the concept works and power level is appropriate for the gamers involved

[Shaft]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Do it!!! I triple dog dare ya!!! Ah, never mind, I'll do it myself... Cap has a minimum STR of 24 based on his bench press of 1100 lbs, but it may be more as he likely wasn't trying to set a record that day in the gym with D-man. I give him a minimum STR of 25.

 

 

I was actually going to say 25...

 

Back on topic...

 

Keep in mind, a Marvel lift is basically a Clean and Jerk, where as a HERO System lift is more or less get it off the ground and stagger for a bit.

 

Okay, now for the ugly rules-related curve ball. What happens if you push your STR? I guess that effectively only lets you use the higher strength for the duration of a clean and jerk. Does that affect our calculated values?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

I was actually going to say 25...

 

Clearly we need someone to chime in and say that as a Peak Human, Caps STR MUST be 30

 

Based on current lifting records, the strongest men in the world have a STR of about 23 or 24.

 

Okay, now for the ugly rules-related curve ball. What happens if you push your STR? I guess that effectively only lets you use the higher strength for the duration of a clean and jerk. Does that affect our calculated values?

 

I think we have all observed that most comic book heroes have pretty wide fluctuation in power based on the needs of the writer.

 

If you allow Pushing to be done rather casually, you could easily reduce the STR scores listed above by 10 points each. In that instance, the X Ton lift becomes more of an absolute ceiling. IMX, the END costs tend to get prohibitive, even for Bricks.

 

Personally, I tend to consider any official stats as the range in which the character usually operates. In that instance, since I tend to reserve Pushing for dramatically appropriate moments, I factor Pushing out when determining a characters lift.

 

However, lacking official stats, I can only go by observations. How much does that weigh and easy did that look? In fact, if I see a character really struggling to lift X amount of weight, I might say "You know what, I think he's Pushing here," and that helps me reverse engineer his base STR is

[Ranxerox]

Re: Luke Cage

 

In Cage's first meeting with Spider-man, he yanked the cherry picker off of a large fire truck and used it to knock down a burning apartment building. This was very early in Cage's career, and it looked to me like a lot more than a 3 ton lift.

 

I get the feeling that you are in love the with a low STR Luge Cage, and it is your homage so you can write him as you see fit. However, you asked what his STR was and I'm saying at least 10 tons from the very beginning.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Luke Cage

 

In Cage's first meeting with Spider-man, he yanked the cherry picker off of a large fire truck and used it to knock down a burning apartment building. This was very early in Cage's career, and it looked to me like a lot more than a 3 ton lift.

 

I get the feeling that you are in love the with a low STR Luge Cage, and it is your homage so you can write him as you see fit. However, you asked what his STR was and I'm saying at least 10 tons from the very beginning.

 

 

In his early solos in his own book ( just like spider-man actually) Big normal guys could give him a run for his money. Basically normal brute guys were close in his league and they made a very big deal "his secret" was he was heavier and thus stronger than he looked. He began powercreeping almost immediately when meeting other superheroes though, Often returning to his previous levels by himself until eventually the higher power levels started to stick. Before he was called Powerman he was much more normal level for his mass with "steel hard" skin and fists but lots of bruising when getting shot..

 

He got a significant boast for Powerman/Iron fist while Danny interestingly got downpowered pretty quickly.

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Clearly we need someone to chime in and say that as a Peak Human, Caps STR MUST be 30

 

Based on current lifting records, the strongest men in the world have a STR of about 23 or 24.

 

 

 

I think we have all observed that most comic book heroes have pretty wide fluctuation in power based on the needs of the writer.

 

If you allow Pushing to be done rather casually, you could easily reduce the STR scores listed above by 10 points each. In that instance, the X Ton lift becomes more of an absolute ceiling. IMX, the END costs tend to get prohibitive, even for Bricks.

 

Personally, I tend to consider any official stats as the range in which the character usually operates. In that instance, since I tend to reserve Pushing for dramatically appropriate moments, I factor Pushing out when determining a characters lift.

 

However, lacking official stats, I can only go by observations. How much does that weigh and easy did that look? In fact, if I see a character really struggling to lift X amount of weight, I might say "You know what, I think he's Pushing here," and that helps me reverse engineer his base STR is

 

Cap is a legendary Hero! Clearly he has a STR of 30!....is that "OK"

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

In Cage's first meeting with Spider-man, he yanked the cherry picker off of a large fire truck and used it to knock down a burning apartment building. This was very early in Cage's career, and it looked to me like a lot more than a 3 ton lift.

 

I get the feeling that you are in love the with a low STR Luge Cage, and it is your homage so you can write him as you see fit. However, you asked what his STR was and I'm saying at least 10 tons from the very beginning.

 

Fair enough...but by the "One step past Cap" rule he should have a STR of 30, because some claim Cap has a puny STR of 25...

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Power Dude (Name to be chosen later)

 

ST 35

Dx 20

Con 35

Bod 15

Int 10

Ego 11

Pres 20

Coml 16

PD 30 (20r) Hardened for 30 PD and 20 PDr

ED 22 (20r) Hardened for 20r

Spd 5

Rec 20

End 70

Stun 51

 

Cost 200 pts (a bit high, but he's a Brick...)

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

The Skilz...

 

Rough and Tumble 19 pts (Spd strike,Crush,M. Block,M. Throw, and m.Escape)

+2 DC

+3 w/ Martial art

 

Perq. PI Lisence

PS: Criminal

PS: PI (free)

Streetwise

KS: Underworld

Contact: Afro-american community (11)

CK: The City

 

Stealth

Acrobatics

Breakfall

Conversation

Deduction

Seduction

 

Cost 71 pts

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Power set:

 

Titanium hide:

DR 20PD/20ED Hardened +1/4

Hardened for 30 PD

 

Super strength: +3" Run, jump, and swim.

 

Super health LS-All disease and Bio toxins

 

Don't be telling Me what to do! Mental Def (12)

 

Big chain Streching 1" and +1D6 HA both REnd>0 and OAF (Fashonable and usefull)

 

 

Cost 70 pts

 

 

This leaves 9 pts unspent...

[Ranxerox]

Re: Luke Cage

 

In his early solos in his own book ( just like spider-man actually) Big normal guys could give him a run for his money. Basically normal brute guys were close in his league and they made a very big deal "his secret" was he was heavier and thus stronger than he looked. He began powercreeping almost immediately when meeting other superheroes though, Often returning to his previous levels by himself until eventually the higher power levels started to stick. Before he was called Powerman he was much more normal level for his mass with "steel hard" skin and fists but lots of bruising when getting shot..

 

He got a significant boast for Powerman/Iron fist while Danny interestingly got downpowered pretty quickly.

 

Well, that is a familiar enough story. Characters often power often depend on whose book they were in. Since I haven't read the early pre-Iron Fist issues of Powerman, I will bow to your expertise.

 

As for Danny Rand, I have read some Iron Fist stories from before he hooked up with Luke Cage. It seemed like he could do pretty much anything with his chi that the writer wanted him to from one issue to the next. So maybe the nerfing was for the best just to have a consistent character.

[Shaft]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Power Dude (Name to be chosen later)

 

ST 35

Dx 20

Con 35

Bod 15

Int 10

Ego 11

Pres 20

Coml 16

PD 30 (20r) Hardened for 30 PD and 20 PDr

ED 22 (20r) Hardened for 20r

Spd 5

Rec 20

End 70

Stun 51

 

Cost 200 pts (a bit high, but he's a Brick...)

 

I think the BODY of 15 is too low. I would shift the CON down to 33 to still get the magic numbers for REC, STUN and ED while upping the BODY to 18, but I'm a soul-less minimaxing powergamer.

 

Luke Cage also strikes me as 13 INT kind of guy not a 10 INT. He may not be a college boy, but he's clever and quick witted.

 

I'm also wondering if a 17 or 18 DEX "feels" right. He never came across as an agile, acrobatic type, though he certainly wasn't a slow brick. I'm assuming here that Iron Fist was ~23 DEX, 6 SPD.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Well, that is a familiar enough story. Characters often power often depend on whose book they were in. Since I haven't read the early pre-Iron Fist issues of Powerman, I will bow to your expertise.

 

As for Danny Rand, I have read some Iron Fist stories from before he hooked up with Luke Cage. It seemed like he could do pretty much anything with his chi that the writer wanted him to from one issue to the next. So maybe the nerfing was for the best just to have a consistent character.

 

 

 

Hm. I followed Iron fist from the first and his powers seemed pretty well defined to me. The biggest difference with Iron fist was that he could relatively easily access his powers before cage and during the Clarmont run afterwords they took an incredible amount out of him to use. I just got ited of Iron Fist definately being the inferior of the team to such a degree they even stated it in story repeatedly.

 

 

I hate nerfing just as much as I hate power level creep. Inevitable I suppose but annoying. I'd rather have lower powered smarter heores that power bloated simpltons.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Power set:

 

Titanium hide:

DR 20PD/20ED Hardened +1/4

Hardened for 30 PD

 

Super strength: +3" Run, jump, and swim.

 

Super health LS-All disease and Bio toxins

 

Don't be telling Me what to do! Mental Def (12)

 

Big chain Streching 1" and +1D6 HA both REnd>0 and OAF (Fashonable and usefull)

 

 

Cost 70 pts

 

 

This leaves 9 pts unspent...

 

 

 

Wow! No bruising from bullets anymore. Modern not classic I suppose. I agree with Shaft about his DEX

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Don't forget that Luke Cage got a power boost from the Powerbroker at one point.

 

And Iron Fist had his powers wain at one point because of some mystical confluence with K'un-L'un.

 

But I maybe remembering incorrectly because thinking about this made me realize just how old I'm getting.

[Greywind]

Re: Luke Cage

 

I'd actually put Cap at a 35 STR.

[Kenn]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Cap can lift 3 and a half tons????

[MrAgdesh]

Re: Luke Cage

 

First off, Greetings everyone! I'm a first-posting lapsed gamer (played HERO extensively throughout the eighties) that has recently returned to the fold.

 

This thread seems as good a point as any to jump in on as I'm currently working on a Marvel 'Initiative' campaign, and thus working to convert an awful lot of characters over from that universe.

 

@pinecone: If you haven't seen it already you might find this site useful. Certainly for converting older versions of characters: http://www.marvelrpg.net/

 

@Bloodstone: Good point about the Pushing rules. How you see those really will affect conversions, and can 'explain' writer variations in max strength levels. For example; the OHOTMU continually mentions "So-and-so can lift (press) X under optimal conditions" or with "supreme effort". If you see that 'supreme effort' as a Push, it makes a huge difference.

 

Incidentally, all the info I have on Cap though puts him pressing 800lbs not 1100, so I'll go with that in these examples.

 

Firstly, the Press mentioned would be the old olympic Press, not the bench press.

 

Here is the Press;

 

http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/web_external_modules.asp?s_module=mod_press_techniques

 

 

So under the guidelines of alternate lifting in the Ultimate Brick, the Press might figure in at about the same as the Snatch (40%). Less than the Clean and Jerk (50%) at any rate, as its a more difficult lift.

 

So, if Cap can press 800lbs with difficulty, that would put him at 26 STR, enough to lift and stagger with 933kg or the Liberty Bell (how apt).

If you factor in his 800lb press as being a Push then his STR is only 16.

 

The same logic applied even to Disco-era Cage (pressing 10 tons) would put him at 50 STR, and thus able to lift and stagger with 25 tons.

 

Or 40 STR if you have him Push to Press that much.

[McManus]

Re: Luke Cage

 

I always saw Cage as an example of a High DEF med-low STR brick. The closest thing to a CoH Tanker in comics. His toughness was his main power and his strength was almost a side effect. But that my just have been my take on the guy.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

First off' date=' Greetings everyone! I'm a first-posting lapsed gamer (played HERO extensively throughout the eighties) that has recently returned to the fold.[/quote']

 

Welcome back

 

Incidentally, all the info I have on Cap though puts him pressing 800lbs not 1100, so I'll go with that in these examples.

 

The 1100lb bench press is just a well known jumping off point, as it's one of those relatively rare instances of the writers actually putting real weight on something in a comic.

 

So under the guidelines of alternate lifting in the Ultimate Brick, the Press might figure in at about the same as the Snatch (40%). Less than the Clean and Jerk (50%) at any rate, as its a more difficult lift.

 

Good line of thinking.

 

However, if you look at old lifting records, the majority of competitive lifters Press more than they Snatch, but less than they C&J. As such, I'd call it about 45%. Running a few numbers though my spreadsheet, it gives reasonably similar results to the actual records.

 

Using that figure, a 25 STR would give Cap a Press of approx 794 lbs while a 26 would be approx 912 lbs.

 

Of course, it may well be more based on some of the amazing feats he has performed down though the years, but I think quite a few of those can be attributed to Pushing, Haymakers, CSLs and/or Martial Arts DCs (could possibly tack on Find Weakness...)

[MrAgdesh]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Welcome back

 

Thankee kindly, sir.

 

However, if you look at old lifting records, the majority of competitive lifters Press more than they Snatch, but less than they C&J. As such, I'd call it about 45%. Running a few numbers though my spreadsheet, it gives reasonably similar results to the actual records.

 

Good call.

 

Cap would therefore be able to lift and push for a few paces, a Porsche boxster. Works for me.

 

Looking at Funky 70's Cage (press 10 tons), this would put his STR at around 49.

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

I think the BODY of 15 is too low. I would shift the CON down to 33 to still get the magic numbers for REC, STUN and ED while upping the BODY to 18, but I'm a soul-less minimaxing powergamer.

 

Luke Cage also strikes me as 13 INT kind of guy not a 10 INT. He may not be a college boy, but he's clever and quick witted.

 

I'm also wondering if a 17 or 18 DEX "feels" right. He never came across as an agile, acrobatic type, though he certainly wasn't a slow brick. I'm assuming here that Iron Fist was ~23 DEX, 6 SPD.

 

Yeah, I originally had 18 DX and 4 speed.....but as a "Martial" Brick, I upped both a bit.

 

I was thinking 13 INT but went with 10 for that "every guy" feel. He is a super hero detective, but still just an ordinary "guy"....

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

Wow! No bruising from bullets anymore. Modern not classic I suppose. I agree with Shaft about his DEX

 

Oh he can feel it the next day but an "ordinary" bullet goes 2D6 these days so 30 PD is needed to bounce it..(Max=12 body Stun 60, avg is around 30)

[pinecone]

Re: Luke Cage

 

I always saw Cage as an example of a High DEF med-low STR brick. The closest thing to a CoH Tanker in comics. His toughness was his main power and his strength was almost a side effect. But that my just have been my take on the guy.

 

Thats how I remember him as well...I think of him as the first "Martial brick" that I noticed...