MrAgdesh

This. Everybody here is well versed with the system and we know what we want from it for our own games. Its probably taken you years to get there, though. @Doc Democracy I agree about the Speed. I think its the most broken part of the system. Once you find your own way around that, you're laughing.

Aces and Eights does this pretty well, so I assume it's parent of Hackmaster does, too. A bit more bookkeeping perhaps but it seems to flow well. Everything has a cost in seconds or fractions thereof. It stops the HERO problem of somebody of a higher DEX getting to move a big distance and tackle you before you manage to get a shot off at them.

You actually stated it to be one second, earlier in this conversation, but I agree that it is an abstraction and will vary by manoeuvre and speed of character. If you're Speed 2 I'll still stand by the fact that I consider your phases, on average, to be 6 seconds long though. You act twice in twelve seconds, ergo...

If a Phase is a second of time, then a normal man doing a full move of 12m (40 feet) is moving at 27mph in that second. If he's moving Noncombat he would be running full out at 54mph. Average that out by

That's just one of the many peculiarities of the Speed system. A Phase is not 1 second of time (that's a Segment) even though you may be able to Abort in the very next Segment after your current Phase. A Speed 3 character acts three times in a 12 second period, regardless of him Aborting or Holding. Hence, his Phases average out at four seconds long.

Well, actually, I didn't miss the END Reserve exemption as I referenced it in my opening post. 🙂 But, my whole point here has been more about does natural sleep qualify in Game Terms as being Unconscious? I don't think it does. I'm satisfied now how I'll handle it for my own game.

You're missing; "Unless the GM rules otherwise, combat always begins on Segment 12. This gives everyone a chance to act and then take a Post-Segment 12 Recovery (see 6E2 129). If combat begins with a Surprise attack, the targets don’t get to act on Segment 12 — the attackers get a free Phase." So if your Sir Godley at DEX 15 is fast asleep, and the guy on Watch has nodded off (No Soup for him), my goblin at DEX 10 stabs you and you don't get to react. You just get the Free Post Phase 12 and a Rude Awakening. I would disagree on the Phase is 1 second. If you abort you next Phase on the next available segment you've still only taken your SPD in actions, regardless of which phases they occur in. Personally I'd allow for anyone after the attacker's DEX's to react, but hey, that's me.

I don't believe that's correct per 6E1 6E1 Pg 334; "A Constant Power with this +¼ Advantage becomes a Persistent Power — it remains “turned on” in situations when a Constant Power would turn off. If the Power costs END to maintain, then it remains turned on as long as the character still has positive END to “fuel” it (he cannot spend STUN in place of END; see 6E2 131). Thus, it continues to function even if the character is Stunned, but turns off if the character’s Knocked Out (since being Knocked Out instantly reduces a character’s END to 0)." Per 6E2 pg; "A character who Recovers during a Phase may do nothing else. He cannot even maintain a Constant Power (even if it only costs END to activate) or perform Actions that cost no END or take no time. However, he may take a Zero Phase Action at the beginning of his Phase to turn off a power, and Persistent Powers that don’t cost END remain in effect."

You can maintain a Constant Power if you are Stunned if you have made it Persistent. So, if normal Sleep does not zero your STUN and END and you allow Constant powers to work whilst you are asleep (as opposed to forcibly knocked unconscious) then that 'bit of your brain that keeps things ticking over' (Sub-Conscious? Autonomic Nervous System?) Whatever) needs to fuel them with END. You can voluntarily lower your Speed to usually (GM fiat) no less than 2, but that is possibly because you're awake. If you're sleeping then you technically have no actions (Speed 0?) but "your brain that is still ticking over" might constitute as 2 SPD or possibly just 1.

I think you mean Stunned. It turns off if he's Knocked Out.

If combat starts on Phase 12 (GM decision) and the attackers have surprise (initiative) then you'll be taking at least 2xSTUN from any attack. If you're at 0 END 0 STUN when you sleep then you'll be KOed from this, maybe for quite some time. If your party member standing guard shouts the alarm, you succeed in waking up and get to act on your DEX prior to being attacked then you'd be (at most) your REC score in END and STUN. If you then declare a Recovery and get hit and damaged subsequently in that Phase then you'll only get the free Post Phase 12 recovery. In either example you will probably be Stunned. You don't sleep in armour after all (if you do then expect your STUN and END to get hit by LTE loss). Being attacked at night, even maintaining a Watch, would be pretty much a massacre if you wake up at (at most) your REC in END and STUN. Whilst a D&D turn is longer (1 minute?), a Phase isn't one second. That's a Segment. Your Phase's length is determined by your Speed. A Phase for a normal human is 6 seconds. A hero is probably either 4 or 3 seconds. In FH games that I've played we usually have 3 Watches during the night. I'd be inclined to rule that if you are asleep on the first and third watch (just dropping off, almost waking up) then you'd wake at full END and STUN. If you're asleep on the second watch then you'd be more disoriented and wake up at half values. (all this barring other effects like troubled sleep etc).

Well, I can only go by my own experiences but I work in Emergency Services. If I'm on nights we can sleep at the firehouse. If the bells go down, I'm up, perhaps from deep REM sleep (not great) but throwing clothes on and rushing down to the appliance. Then, depending on the evening's runners and riders I'm either driving the engine on blues or riding in the back of the cab probably donning BA (Breathing Apparatus). At no point in that 5-6 minutes of mobilisation do I feel like I'm taking a Recovery. Its a mad dash from the initial adrenaline surge to being out the doors (takes years off your life apparently). I also don't feel like I've come round after being knocked out. Been there, done that. It's very different. To go back to the FH analogy and the party sleeping at night suddenly getting the watch shouting "ALARUM! WAKE UP! WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!! I don't think that those heroic characters would be at 1 END or 1 STUN (or maybe their REC in both if its a generous GM) but much more. Maybe not full, in fact, maybe half? That might be how I go with it. If you're woken up abruptly then half END & Half Stun. Full Night's Sleep then full amounts. A restless night's sleep (over-active thinking, nightmares, Mental Powers invading your dreamscape) then I might play around with some LTE loss and a need to rest properly for X hours ("I've just woken up, why am I so exhausted?!" (Or maybe Lightsleep could convey some additional benefit?)

Whilst I see what you’re saying, there’s a big difference between being roused from sleep and being brought back to consciousness from trauma, as I’m sure many can relate to here (military backgrounds, martial arts backgrounds etc). Coming out of unconsciousness by being roused/brought around leaves one feeling woozy, possibly nauseous, and not entirely “with it” hence the Hero System zeroing of your END and STUN presumably. But feeling that way from waking up from regular sleep. I’d be visiting the doctor with my concerns. (As an aside this is why I don’t like Sleep spells built as STUN reducing.)

Well, the difference seems to be whether trauma has caused the unconsciousness or not. Apart from the END reserve quote a quick search on 'Sleeping' in 6E1 doesn't bring up much to help but under Summon for example on Pg 291 "Specific Being" it does say; "A Summoned specific being appears in his current condition at the time of Summoning. If he’s injured, he’ll be injured; if he’s sleeping or Knocked Out, he’s asleep or unconscious; and so forth." Under DCV Modifiers table (6E2 Pg 37) Knocked Out and Sleeping are listed separately. Whilst they share common ground on MCV and Placed Shots they appear to be different. Hence a Sleeping Character getting a chance to wake up with a PER roll at -6 if somebody is sneaking up on them. I'm not so sure that you should be at zero end and zero stun after a good night's sleep. If so, what constitutes "a Good Night's Sleep"? Aside from the topic thread I'm interested in this for other game reasons. All of those Fantasy Hero scenarios where the GM says "Set up the First Watch" have somewhat more dramatic impact where those characters not on the watch wake up under attack.

Years ago, I always used to assume that if a character went to sleep that any Constant Powers would switch off but Constant Powers say that they only switch off when the character is Stunned or Unconscious. Unconscious is largely defined within the rules as 'Knocked Out' where your STUN is reduced to zero and when you 'come to' your END is also set to zero. This led me to ask what a sleeping character's reserves of END and STUN are when they wake up - presumably not reduced if you've had a full night's rest (although you might be 'Flashed' by being awoken suddenly, you're rested as opposed to having been made unconscious by suffering trauma). However, I just noticed this under Endurance Reserve (6E1 pg 205) "USING ENDURANCE RESERVE An Endurance Reserve is “independent” of the character. Powers that draw END from an Endurance Reserve can keep doing so, and thus keep functioning, even if the character is Stunned, Knocked Out, asleep, or the like — the Reserve doesn’t lose its END in those situations." (Emphasis mine). So, officially, your END (at least) is set to zero when you wake up from the unconsciousness of sleep?