BrandonBussell Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 I am a long long time gamer played my first game of basic DnD in 79 at the age of 5. Been through most of the games... spent a decade with ADnD a decade with WoD and a bunch of champions mixed in. After a 3 year hiatus due to moving away from my gaming troupe, I have decided to get back into PnP gaming. MMORPGs and the like on computers and consoles are just huge disappointing wastes of time. I want the meat and potatoes of RPGs... roleplaying. So i am here to kinda get up to speed with what everyone is playing and how 5th edition looks? I love the Hero system and Champions is definitely the game i want to play right now. My only hang up is the lack of story resources. WoD really got me excited because of all the information on storylines... the system is loose and fun but lacks definition... and structure... this is where Heroes just rules the roost. I am interested in info on the settings and stories you all are telling... i think my story will be gritty modern Graphic Novel style Supers... no spandex in sight. But I would like to hear all about your stories... and how they are panning out... maybe even sone characters... pc and npc that you like. I hope this thread will grow.. and we will trade info.. and good times. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 This isn't quite what you asked for but here are some comics and books that might serve the same purpose. the Watchmen, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, if you haven't, do Miracleman/Marvelman, Alan Moore and various, ditto what I said about watchmen. The Dark knight Returns and the Dark Knight Strikes Again, by Frank Miller. what I said about the previous two but exists in world with costumed supers. All right, the basics are out of the way so here are somethings closer to what you want. Zenith, published by 200AD, a british superhero story Espers, by James D, Hudnall & various, group of people with special abilities interact with a secret cabal of psis that pull the world's strings from behind the public leaders. Kind of world of darknessesque. Rising Stars, comic by Babylon 5 creator Mike Stracyzinski. Also set in a real world with the exception of a limited number of superhumans. great characters and a grand narrative hook. Recently, Stracyzinski has been writing an update of Marvel's Squadron Supreme, about a group of supers, based on the archetypes of the Justice League, who decide to take power and save the world despite it's self. I'd say it is very likely to have tons of material to think about. Prose- The Wild Cards novels, ed. George R.R. Martin, highly recommended reality based world with supers. realistic, nasty and very enjoyable, has two sourcebooks put out by Steve Jackson Games-Gurps Wildcards & GWC Aces Abroad, Also Mike Surbrook, I Think, translated all the characters from the books into Hero terms. Captain America vs Thor, or perhaps it is the opposite, by David Brin. a short story about the Nazis using the Holocaust as a mass sacrifice to summon and bind the Norse Gods to their cause. Way of the mark of what you described but covers some similar territory of real world combat with/against a powerful superhuman. More than Human, by Theodore Sturgeon, about a telepathically linked group of "special" people and how society reacts. Jack of Eagles, by James Blish. a common man becomes immensely empowered. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonBussell Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 RedMenace Strikes again! Thanks so much RedMenace I have been thinking alot if there owuld be any GMs out there who would want to help me create a setting for my campaign and maybe run their troupe in this cocreated setting? I think this would be an awesome way of building sotries and mythos in a new and exciting world. We would exchange notes of how our games are running and each troupe would hear snippets about the other troupes.... and maybe even meet them some time. I would love to hear more from all of you, so keep it coming! thanks Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Glad you liked it BB. As to co-creating and co-running, alas I'm in the midst of a four colored WW2 campaign at present. but. I'd love to compare notes about "reality" champions. Let me throw out this single notion. Unless the supers are so powerful that they can push around anyone they want to, I can only imagine that they would be nationalized/drafted by their respective Governments which would seem to offer a military service for life or fugitive for life setting. That's only one take of course. The closest I've run to this would be a pair of campaigns called Year of the Comet, in which a group of people are exposed to a super empowering radiation from a comet in the 1830s, and vaguely similar with a group of Americans and Cubans who mysteriously gain powers when the Cuban missile crisis gets out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by Redmenace GLet me throw out this single notion. Unless the supers are so powerful that they can push around anyone they want to, I can only imagine that they would be nationalized/drafted by their respective Governments which would seem to offer a military service for life or fugitive for life setting. That's only one take of course. Another option is that they go into exile. That is, they move somewhere else where they won't be drafted, or, at least, where the conditions of the "draft" are tolerable. The latter is a very important consideration. The "draft" may be into regular forces, or it may simply mean that the supers are treated as reservists, subject to call up as needed. This would be quite a viable option as long as there are at least some full-time government supers around. Going back to the question of exile, some supers may be more interested in serving in some other countries' military forces than their own, especially if the conditions of service are better. This may be due to ideological committment, or may simply be on a mercenary basis. Another factor to consider is that some of the supers may have been created by the governments' themselves. What would happen when a soldier who had volunteered for a super-soldier program wants to leave the military? Are some military personnel suddenly going to be "volunteers for life"? If not, can their powers be turned off, or tuned down to a degree that allows them to go back into civilian life? If so, what happens when news of their existence gets out? Are they allowed to communicate with their families? If not, what happens when they manage to do so anyway? And so on... I have a few minor problems with "realistic" settings. They are as subject to the assumptions behind them as four-colour settings, and rarely are actually genuinely more realistic than the latter. In fact, if you wanted a truly "realistic" setting, go for a world of non-powered vigilantes... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonBussell Posted August 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Todays thoughts Well about recruitment. I am thinking something a bit more devious. Ever seen or read Contact? The old entrepeneur character... with all the money who pulls strings to get the Jodie Foster character on the ship... i think the recruiiter wil be like him. Some guy who has more pull but less press than the President of the US. SOmeone with his own... possibly crooked agenda. He could be the greatest asset to the heroes or there greatest enemy. I am fleshing him out in my mind as we speak. I think that alot of the NPCs might be government retained. Tell me what you think Is there any reason to buy the 5th edition Main book... if i get the new Champs book? peace B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonBussell Posted August 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I just wrote a long reply... but i accidently went back and erased it. SO can someone clarify 4 color for me? Ill rewrite my stuff later. peace bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by BrandonBussell SO can someone clarify 4 color for me? It's tricky to adequately do the term justice. Obviously it's origins are in the printing process involved in early comic books. It tends to be used to indicate the attitudes, and to some extent the cliches of "typical" Golden and Silver age comics. These attitudes do, in fact exist, although they were not universal, even during their supposed heydays. For example, Batman and Superman are well-known for their Codes against Killing and all that, but check out their early appearances if you want to see some rather rough justice being handed out. In fact, "four colour" conventions evolved over time from origins that had more in common with pulp detective fiction, which could often be quite brutal and bloody. They became institutionalised with the introduction of the Comics Code during the '50s. The so-called "Bronze Age", beginning in the early '70s, was a period where four colour conventions coexisted with more "serious" attitudes to various degrees. There is supposedly an "Iron Age" at the moment, but frankly I haven't seen much evidence of it. Yes, there are some titles that are used as evidence of its existence, but frankly it's not so obvious in the mainstream. That is, of course, unless you count the Unreadable X-Men as being Iron Age, as opposed to merely being rubbish. The present day JLA looks like good old Bronze Age stuff to me. It mixes "four colour" with some fairly serious themes. The heroic codes of the characters are intact - they are just dealing with situations that are a little more serious than some of the goofier matters of the past. OK, I'll give you an example of four colour in a Champions game: A mad scientist unleashes genetically engineered dinosaurs on the city. The heroes have to protect the innocent, and stop the critters. The scientist threatens to repeat the exercise, with bells on, unless his demands are met. The heroes have to find him and stop him. Is this scenario silly? Yes. Is this scenario fun? Well, I suppose that depends on whether or not you like playing with toy plastic dinosaurs and going "Rarrr" and "Eeek! A dinosaur!" a lot... Of course, there is no "correct" style of game. Personally, my tastes change with my moods. I am quite happy to play with dinosaurs one session, and to hunt a psychopath through a haunted insane asylum the next. I don't expect a vast amount of consistency, although a certain amount of it is nice. And yes, incidentally, I am quite happy to play "realistic" games. The psychopath hunt actually plays best with player characters that have no powers at all (even/especially if NPCs do)! (Picture Batman). On the other hand, I would have a whole lot less interest in playing a game where the rest of the PCs were Punisher clones gunning down kids for being gang members. I would probably rat the other PCs out to the cops. I could get into "realistic" superpowered games too. Unfortunately, I would be a real problem to GM, since my character would, of course, respond "realistically" to the situation. I've given hints in an earlier post what my character would be likely to do - it's unlikely that that is what the GM has in mind for her campaign. And one of the funny things about "realistic" campaigns is that many supers would probably attempt to use their powers in ways that are actually rather "four colour". Just because "supervillains" are nastier and more subtle doesn't mean that other superbeings won't band together to stop their plans once they are identified. And, of course, in a "realistic" world, their plans won't necessarily be all that subtle. Not all of them are mind-controllers, nor are all mind-controllers wannabe world conquerors. Some, of course, are "merely" rapists, for example. Identifying and proving this would be - difficult - to put it mildly, but stomping them into the dirt once you do would be rather fun. So, all this is interesting, but is it really what you want to play all the time? Personally, I like to be able revert back to lighthearted dinosaur stomping action, without too much concern for building huge logical edifices that mainly serve to constrain GMs, rather than enhance their options. I feel free to use whatever colours I choose. A lot of time four colours are enough. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonBussell Posted August 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Alan, Thanks for your time and your concise information. I guess I wonder about this. If we were to let players with blossoming superpower they dont really understand into a somewhat realistic setting where places, people, and concepts can be recognized, does it hurt the story? You speak of the restraint it puts on GMs, but I am not sure that i think it is restraining as much as it is challenging to the GM and the players. I love champions. It is the best game i have ever played. Combat is so fun it would be enough to make a night of gaming worth it. However I am almost 30, and I am looking for Roleplaying... for beautiful moments of internal struggle... of personal achievement... of difficult communication and every other thing that makes roleplaying fun. Silver and golden age seems to cut and dry... too Idealistic... I could be very very wrong about all of this. Id like to hear everyones thoughts. thanks bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by BrandonBussell If we were to let players with blossoming superpower they dont really understand into a somewhat realistic setting where places people and concepts can be recognized, does it hurt the story. .. Silver and golden age seems to cut and dry... too Idealistic... ROFL. I just realised which title you described in the first paragraph above. It's one which is a perfect example of a Silver Age title. It's: The Incredible Hulk! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Re: Todays thoughts Originally posted by BrandonBussell Well about recruitment. I am thinking something a bit more devious. Ever seen or read Contact? The old entrepeneur character... with all the money who pulls strings to get the Jodie Foster character on the ship... i think the recruiiter wil be like him. Some guy who has more pull but less press than the President of the US. SOmeone with his own... possibly crooked agenda. He could be the greatest asset to the heroes or there greatest enemy. I am fleshing him out in my mind as we speak. I think that alot of the NPCs might be government retained. Tell me what you think Is there any reason to buy the 5th edition Main book... if i get the new Champs book? peace B Interesting stuff here. Let me hold off a moment on this topic and instead I'll go back to my impression of supers and nationalization. This assumes a wide and diverse range of powers. I don't see how Telepaths, should they exist, could be ignored or simply drafted. Security, military, corporate and political secrets couldn't be guarded enough. It would be as if one person had a quantum computer out there and could just go anywhere on the net he or she wanted. Interested in the firing codes for America's nuclear weapons? Want to know what a Pentium 8 chip looks like, what Gary Condit really knew about Shondra Levi or if Iraq did have WMDs? A Telepath can find it out. Telepaths would have to be owned, eliminated or take over for themselves. The ability to hurl a tank or project lightning is just an application of military or assassination power. That is just one example, if there are supers who can telepathically manipulate Computers it's almost as bad. Things to think about and /or define- 1.) I think if we want to get much deeper into the topic there has to be a definition of which powers at what level and in what percentage of the population. 2.) Are the powered individuals overt? Does it just come about one day or have they always existed, perhaps in secret? 3.) Do all countries have them, only one country? What if it is the result of Cold War psychic, genetic or drug experimentation? If it was the US do we tell anyone or do we keep it secret for as long as possible like we did/do with supersonic spyplanes? Maybe it is the real reason we one the cold war. If it was Russia, are the supers and ex KGB/and or Russian Mafia who are running things over there. As you can see, things start spinning away from a familiar reality pretty fast. Re: the recruiter angle, maybe I'm just cynical but it reminded me of La Femme Nikita. I can see the worst enemy coming up more often than the best friend angle. Here is another source, Strikeforce Morituri, Marvel Comics, When a technologically superior alien species begins attacking and looting Earth, a scientific process is utilized to create superhumans to fight them. The Morituri process enhances the physical body, avg 25-30 pt stats, and engenders apparently random and unique supernormal abilities in it's subjects. However it comes with a price, the human body wasn't created to do these things and sooner or later the process kills the recipient, maybe on the first day and at best, within a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Re: Todays thoughts Originally posted by BrandonBussell Well about recruitment. I am thinking something a bit more devious. Ever seen or read Contact? Less my comments above be misconstrued, I like the idea and think he should be perhaps a telepath himself. It might also be interesting to have him start out as a manipulative patron at the campaigns onset then gradually revealed as the major enemy towards the end. Mutant X, airing across the US these days has a kind of variation of real world supers, originally created by a corporation that are becoming the indispensible- must have technology for any would be world power. Is there any reason to buy the 5th edition Main book... if i get the new Champs book? peace B It depends what you want. Champs is a grand book but vastly deals with comic book superheroics rather than realistic ones. The 5th ed. rules are bound in a nice durable cover, has a few new rules and some great expantion on pre existing ones as well as many power examples. (Take a look at any page in the Powers section for an example) Honestly, if you know 4th ed. you know the vast majority of 5th ed but you may be left shaking your head when buying supplements in the future as new things like Megascaling will be referred to. Based on the brand new Champion's Battlegrounds, in which almost all of the supervillains the players will be fighting are from another product, Conquerors, Killers and Crroks, and not reprinted, I'd seriously consider getting the new core rules before any other Hero product. I noticed that no one addressed this, your prime topic is pretty interesting so maybe it's stealing the spotlight, you might make a new topic on the bourds asking this question specifically or barring that take a good look at the 5th ed rules at your gamestore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonBussell Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 How we are rolling! First off, thanks all for the input. About the recruiter: Something I havent revealed that will change things i think. It will be a PC. Well sorta. I am far away from my old gaming troupe but still very much in touch with them. I have asked my old WoD GM to play via the internet on occassion, and he is slated to play the recruiter. I will nudge him in directions but overall thwe future of the character is his. So in many ways not much has been decided for the character... although I am thinking there will be some deceit either way. About nationalization: Anyone ever played around with a Genesis style game... where the PCs are seemingly members of the first wave of supers? OObviously the story can change at any point... revelaing old supers... but at launch these might be people dealing with new found super powers in a world where no one has had to deal with supers yet...atleast publically. I thik my mind sometimes is too much in the WoD... where hidden agendas and secrets rule above all else. I however want to play champions and need to get a good somewhat original setting. please keep the info coming. bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Re: The world of Champions Originally posted by BrandonBussell I am a long long time gamer played my first game of basic DnD in 79 at the age of 5. Been through most of the games... spent a decade with ADnD a decade with WoD and a bunch of champions mixed in. After a 3 year hiatus due to moving away from my gaming troupe, I have decided to get back into PnP gaming. MMORPGs and the like on computers and consoles are just huge disappointing wastes of time. I want the meat and potatoes of RPGs... roleplaying. So i am here to kinda get up to speed with what everyone is playing and how 5th edition looks? I love the Hero system and Champions is definitely the game i want to play right now. My only hang up is the lack of story resources. WoD really got me excited because of all the information on storylines... the system is loose and fun but lacks definition... and structure... this is where Heroes just rules the roost. I am interested in info on the settings and stories you all are telling... i think my story will be gritty modern Graphic Novel style Supers... no spandex in sight. But I would like to hear all about your stories... and how they are panning out... maybe even sone characters... pc and npc that you like. I hope this thread will grow.. and we will trade info.. and good times. Brandon I hope you don't mind if I just link my site, at http://www.asterick.com/realschluss/x-champions/ - the "issues" section is the stories part but there's probably stuff under the "world settings" and "history" you might find useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Another good resource for a gritty, most-supers-are-grey, is Kingdom Come a DC Elsewheres series (although you can get it as graphic novel now). After I get my feet wet with the Champions Universe, I will give a crack at setting a game with that background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Re: How we are rolling! Originally posted by BrandonBussell Anyone ever played around with a Genesis style game... where the PCs are seemingly members of the first wave of supers? OObviously the story can change at any point... revelaing old supers... but at launch these might be people dealing with new found super powers in a world where no one has had to deal with supers yet...atleast publically. I suspect a substantial percentage of non-CU campaigns are "first supers" types. Mine is; in our campaign supers first became public in 2000. We are now in the spring of 2005. While there were some immortals operating quietly for centuries behind the scenes, and several secretive heroes fighting crime as far back as the 50s, our team was essentially the first heroes (In fact, it was the on-camera rescue of a British noble that first revealed paranormals to the world.). While this type of campaign has some disadvantages such as lack of pre-made villains and history, on the whole I think it's more fun. It's cool to be the first; NPCs aren't certain how to deal with supers, governments have to make policies, and to a certain extent the PCs have to make their own path in the world rather than falling into a predetermined slot. After 5 game years, our team MidGuard is the "big gun" of our world; the equivalent of the Justice League or the Avengers (Albeit a lot less powerful.). We're honored and respected by people and governments and people all over the world. That wasn't predetermined; it was entirely based on the course the team's players plotted after their debut. They could have decided to be a mysterious group like the X-Men with a semi-adversarial relationship with the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Re: Re: How we are rolling! Originally posted by Trebuchet I suspect a substantial percentage of non-CU campaigns are "first supers" types. That audible click you just heard was my campaign coming together. For the last few days I have been driving myself mad trying to write out a timeline for my world. I've been working with the concept of a new "Age" of supers having recently begun, but with one or more previous "Ages" having occurred in the past, particularly during WWII. As a result, I have felt the need to develop a bit of their history. I've just realised this isn't necessary. The key lies in the classic DC story "The Flash of Two Worlds." DC's Silver Age characters were the "first supers" in their universe. So were their Golden Age ones! The two existed in different universes! This classic bit of codswallop is exactly right for a lazy campaign designer. Yes, there were Golden Age supers - but not from here. If you want them to interact with the PCs you can, and you can send them home again afterwards. If you want to introduce villains, they can just come in from the universe next door - or they can be the "this dimensional" equivalents of the Golden Age characters. This is perfect. It's full of classic silliness, and it saves me work. End of problem. The first public superhero in my "main" universe appeared in 1998... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Re: Re: How we are rolling! Originally posted by Trebuchet I suspect a substantial percentage of non-CU campaigns are "first supers" types. I dunno, I've never participated in a first supers world actually. I'd like to sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 I agree with a lot of the great recomendations regarding comics as resources and I'd like to add another: Kurt Busiek's Astro City. I think Busiek does a really interesting job of creating a setting in which you can believe that super powered beings have integrated into society and society has come to terms with having them around. Buesiek also writes great plots. I'd suggest picking up "The Tarnished Angel" and "Confession." There's a good series coming out now, but I'd wait for the trade paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starblaze Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Actually I have a Golden Age game where the players are the first superheroes. They are not THE first, the first one was Captian Atlas, but they are heroes of this particular age of heroes. They are a special commando unit of supers and are as such all of them are in the military. There are a few other supers out there but compared to modern Champions campaign there are very few people with superpowers. This particular campaign has the government creating a superhero team because in 1938 America was invaded by an alien races known as the Xylars. They were assisted by an alien superhero, a sort of green lantern type, which then signaled the new age of heroes. It is now the 1943 and the team known as the Elites has just found out why they were formed and now have to deal with Nazi fifth columnist that have made an alliance with the Xylars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenreFiend Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 I've run a few first-heroes games. The main problem I've had is figuring out why the government doesn't deal more harshly with these new powers in the world. Of course, it all depends on the PCs and what they do. Of course, I've also played in a couple of those games, and I find it's very important that the whole group agrees on just how public they're going to go before you get started. I had one character leave a group because he wanted to be more open with his powers and everyone else wanted to stay in the shadows. So, he left the group (with no hard feelings, and a promise to help them if they ever needed him) and I brought in a new PC who was more in-line with the groups attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by GenreFiend I've run a few first-heroes games. The main problem I've had is figuring out why the government doesn't deal more harshly with these new powers in the world. Of course, it all depends on the PCs and what they do. Indeed it does. First of all, non-powered characters are not "new powers in the world", but rather plain old vigilantes, that is, criminals. That covers Batman. That also includes most technology users, at least up to a certain power level. At least initially, they will be subject to existing laws, and have police hunteds as soon as they do anything that the police find out about. They probably won't be hunted at a much higher level than that unless they start mucking about with terrorism/counter-terrorism, crossing international boundaries, and so on. Magical characters aren't really "new powers", but rather are old powers gone public, in most cases. Whether or not they _should_ go public is a little debatable. Others - well, they are more or less freaks. If they are not careful, they will be treated like the Hulk! Scientists will want to study them, journalists will want to interview them, and so on. "Mutant registration" etc, is probably the least of their worries. Villains will have all of the above problems, plus they will be wanted criminals. As long as you don't introduce massive numbers of supers, they will be dealt with on an ad-hoc basis, without massive structural change. If you start introducing thousands and thousands of mutants, for example, there will be an impact. A lot depends on the kind of game you want to play. If you want to play a "rise of the mutants" type setting, the world will radically change. If you want to play a setting where supers are relatively rare, it won't. My world won't change much. Laws will, however, be enforced, to the degree I find convenient. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by assault Others - well, they are more or less freaks. If they are not careful, they will be treated like the Hulk! Scientists will want to study them, journalists will want to interview them, and so on. "Mutant registration" etc, is probably the least of their worries. As long as you don't introduce massive numbers of supers, they will be dealt with on an ad-hoc basis, without massive structural change. If you start introducing thousands and thousands of mutants, for example, there will be an impact. My world won't change much. Laws will, however, be enforced, to the degree I find convenient. One thing I strictly enforced was that all player characters had to look totally human in secret ID. Their heroic form can look pretty weird, but they must be able to pass as normals even through a strip search (Detects are a whole 'nother matter...) I limited the numbers to about 1000 paranormals, 75% of which are 250 points and less. The PCs are 350 points. That keeps it from going too wild, with supers dropping out of the sky. I still operate on the basic premise that most people in the campaign universe have never even seen a superhuman, much less interacted with one. After all, how many people in the real world have ever known even a SWAT team member or a murderer personally? (I have.) How the governments ultimately reacted was largely up to the players. If they'd chosen to be mysterious and/or adversarial, many governments would have been hostile. Instead they took the high road, and MidGuard is now honored around the world. That's not to say there are not nations that persecute and/or induct paranormals, such as communist China and Iraq (We've already fought a Chinese Army superteam.). Several nations require supers to register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by Trebuchet One thing I strictly enforced was that all player characters had to look totally human in secret ID. Their heroic form can look pretty weird, but they must be able to pass as normals even through a strip search (Detects are a whole 'nother matter...) I limited the numbers to about 1000 paranormals, 75% of which are 250 points and less. The PCs are 350 points. That keeps it from going too wild, with supers dropping out of the sky. I still operate on the basic premise that most people in the campaign universe have never even seen a superhuman, much less interacted with one. After all, how many people in the real world have ever known even a SWAT team member or a murderer personally? (I have.) How the governments ultimately reacted was largely up to the players. If they'd chosen to be mysterious and/or adversarial, many governments would have been hostile. Instead they took the high road, and MidGuard is now honored around the world. That's not to say there are not nations that persecute and/or induct paranormals, such as communist China and Iraq (We've already fought a Chinese Army superteam.). Several nations require supers to register. Hi Treb - how did you deal with creating villains worthy of the heroes? The problem I see in all sorts of games (including my own) with "few" supers, is that you end up with a dilemma. Either: 1 - Villains have to keep breaking out of jail 2 - New villains keep popping up, calling into question the actual numbers of supers in the world and destroying the "rarity" of supers in general 3 - The superheroes face a limited number of villains #1 I don't like because it does make heroes feel useless and makes killing the villains essentially black-and-white (yes, you can add in some moral grief by making them misunderstood souls, but that can be tedious, or more likely simply delaying the inevitable "I am sick of bringing this guy in. Whoops, what an accident, he's dead!" issue) #2 I don't like, although it's what I've ended up doing despite saying a world doesn't have many supers; it's just cheesy and it also changes the campaign world as you have to start devising all sorts of things to suit the fact that supers actually aren't that rare #3 is boring to me. So what do you do? (And of course, what do others do?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 It's surprisingly easy to deal with. I doubt there's many more than 250 characters in the entire Champions Universe if you only include 5th Edition releases. I've got 1000 to work with. So that makes supers very rare indeed when spread over an entire planet; less than 0.0000167%. Think about terrorists and criminal gangs. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of them worldwide, but most people never encounter one even indirectly. First, what I've done is internationalized my campaign. Instead of a steady stream of supervillains showing up in Oslo (where MidGuard is based), our team travels a lot. Because all of our secret identities all work for a major international philanthropic organization, Europa 2000 (Picture Sandia Labs meets Amnesty International), we get invited everywhere the high and mighty gather. Strange how bad guys always want to attack/kidnap/mind control such people... Secondly, just because there are only so many "paranormals" doesn't much limit other types. High-tech types are one obvious alternative, as are magic types and criminal conspiracies. In a recent adventure I ran, the team fought neo-Nazis equipped with giant Mech-like vehicles. Not a supervillain in the bunch, but it made for a good evening's brawl as the neo-Nazis attempted a coup in Austria with their "two-legged tanks". I don't even have alien races and we've still never had trouble coming up with villains. Third, good villains and villain teams can and do get away. Our team has fought The Master of the World's team 3 times. Each time we've captured one of his team (1 escaped from the police), but the rest got away and he's managed to recruit a replacement. The Emerald Mage, my world's immortal equivalent of Dr. Destroyer (Albeit with a lot more charm and class), is too powerful (1750 points; 300 point Cosmic VPP) to be simply defeated in straight combat. MidGuard disrupts his plans, but EM just goes on to the next one (He already rules Colombia; Venezuela will be next). Fourth, even a 250 point opponent can be plenty tough when they do only one thing well. My own character Zl'f (Flash Dancer in those days) was actually more powerful in combat (higher CON, PD & ED, and more DCs) under 4th edition with 262 points than she is now with 379 in 5th. In 4th Edition she was a pure combat machine; now she has plenty of non-combat skills, more martial maneuvers and some minor power variations that add a lot more depth to the character. Fifth, my campaign is explicity designed so that modern military forces are a real threat to the characters. Sure, Silhouette may simply ignore rifle bullets but a TOW anti-tank missile is a whole 'nother story. Zl'f may be able to literally dodge bullets, but that won't help much if a cruise missile hits the room she's in and explodes. Sixth, by globe-trotting I get to substitute exotic locations for exotic villains. Anything gets boring when you're doing your umpteenth battle over Millenium City or New York. But we do other places, such as: Aegean Sea (on a sunken submarine & a cargo ship) London (Several times) Oslo (Waterfront) Northern Norway (Nuclear Power Station) New York (Stadium packed with people) Alaskan tundra (Remote secret government weather-control installation) Australia (Outback) Easter Island (Giant stone statues) Belize (Lost Mayan City) Argentina (Downtown Buenos Aires) Columbia (Bogata) Japan (Tokyo & a secret nuclear missile base) China (Military installation) French Riviera (Babes in string bikinis, or less!) Paris (Arc de Triumph) Turkey (A palace) Jerusalem (Downtown) San Diego (An aircraft carrier in port) Novgorod (Tractor works) Berlin (Secret underground Nazi installation) Vienna (Main square & Parliamentary building) I know I've missed a few, but the point is that an interesting backdrop can really add a lot to a scenario without requiring anything outrageous in the way of villains. Who hasn't wanted to do an aerial combat in and around the Eiffel Tower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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