mallet Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Thanks Steve! I guess I can hope (fingers crossed) for a mid-Feb purchase from the online store! Which is fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts I'm sad to hear that UF won't have anything approaching Shadowrun-esque in it. It's understandable for space reasons alone. I think that of the many, many intellectual properties in the RPG industry a select few of them garner attention for conversion or spin off into a GM's system of choice. Basically intriguing enough to warrant emulation/conversion but not the time or the money to just jump into the parent system. Shadowrun and Rifts being toward the top of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts [ About $30, wow! Is it really worth the $30? Bob Yikes! Um, maybe not... I'm glad I got it from the library. You could see if your local public library has it, or can get it through ILL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Wizard of the Pigeons (Mass Market Paperback) by Megan Lindholm (Author), Robin Hobb (Author) I went through a trilogy by Robin Hobb and found it to be slow and plodding. I'll add this to my find list but not something I'd buy new. But then again I have radar for stuff like this at fleamarkets and thrift shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandem Esk Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts So its on it way?!? Goody! I'm waiting with bated (not baited, its not a mouse) breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschrempp Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Will the Hero Web Site have a pre-order option coming up soon? Bob Schrempp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Shadowrun and Rifts being toward the top of the list. Except for those of us that hate those settings with a passion I've played Amber, Cyberpunk 2020 and D&D - and really aren't at all interested in derivative fanfiction combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Except for those of us that hate those settings with a passion Which makes perfect sense right? Only properties that have longevity and attraction can have passionate detractors. Anything else an it's just another forgettable game you didn't like. You can't deny Shadowrun has that attraction and longevity, that appeal. After several changes in ownership, a huge number of spin of novels and three video games one of which is a few years old. I don't care for Rifts either, especially the rules but if Palladium only did one edition in the mid 80s, a few supplements and started publishing novels instead would Rifts still be as popular as it is? Or would it just be another forgotten game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts I'm sad to hear that UF won't have anything approaching Shadowrun-esque in it. Ummm... where do you get that idea? I love Shadowrun, and it clearly falls within the scope of Urban Fantasy. It's listed in the book's Bibliography, and earlier in this thread I specifically described one of the four major example settings in the book as "Steve's tribute to Shadowrun, just without the cyberpunk elements." Cyberpunk elements will have to wait for Cyber Hero, but aside from that I think I did a decent job of capturing a SR sort of "feel" without slavishly copying anything. Heck, I'm the one who wrote up SR for Hobby Games: The 100 Best. Why would I pass up the chance to say nice things about it in UFH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Will the Hero Web Site have a pre-order option coming up soon? No -- except for the Champions 25th special edition, we've never done pre-orders due to the administrative and legal hassles. We put the book in the Online Store as soon as we actually have it in hand or have confirmation that it's about to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Which makes perfect sense right? Only properties that have longevity and attraction can have passionate detractors. Anything else an it's just another forgettable game you didn't like. You can't deny Shadowrun has that attraction and longevity' date=' that [i']appeal[/i]. After several changes in ownership, a huge number of spin of novels and three video games one of which is a few years old. I don't care for Rifts either, especially the rules but if Palladium only did one edition in the mid 80s, a few supplements and started publishing novels instead would Rifts still be as popular as it is? Or would it just be another forgotten game? I like the novels, oddly enough. Especially Fade to Black because it is so different. I figure I'm just jaded - I'm so familiar with the source material and how RPGs are made, i can't get wowed by the presentation of something that isn't new to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Ummm... where do you get that idea? Right here. I specifically described one of the four major example settings in the book as "Steve's tribute to Shadowrun' date=' just without the cyberpunk elements." [/quote'] I don't want debate whether Shadowrun is fantasy with sci-fi added or the other way around but to me Shadowrun is Cyberpunk with fantasy elements. If you strip away the cyberpunk elements, the dystopian feel, the cyberpunk "style" the cyberware, the technology the eats away man's identity, you've taken away half the game. This is why GURPS Technomancer never really did it for me. It was a good book, I'd play in it or run but it would always make me want to play Shadowrun. I won't disagree that whatever you've written is good. I won't say that it's not a respectful homage to the Shadowrun elements you like. And with as many competing visions of cyberpunk, from my cherished Cyberspace supplements to anime I don't blame anyone for avoiding the subject in favor of simplicity. But to me, we're of a different mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Respectfully, then, I think you're complaining that "this book about Urban Fantasy doesn't have something in it that I want, even though what I want bears no direct relation to Urban Fantasy." I'm sorry, but I can't write a complete set of cyberware rules just to create a mini-setting for UFH, since cyberware isn't an element of Urban Fantasy. Getting something closer to Shadowrun will just have to wait for Cyber Hero. Fortunately, I think CH is a restricted enough genre that it's a book I could write anytime during the year, rather than having to save it for a GenCon release. All I would need would be enough advance notice to do the research -- but as a matter of fact I happen to have started doing that research back in November, so I'll be set whenever it looks like a good addition to the schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Shadowrun has always been an "A + B" setting anyway - it's not going to be too difficult to take "Urban Fantasy Hero" and "Cyber Hero" and mash them together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallet Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Cyber Hero? Really?! That would kick-ass! I hope it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts I would love to do a new Cyber Hero, which is why I've begun doing the research now. Like Post-Apocalyptic it's limited enough that I think I can do it in a single book with perhaps a sample setting (Hudson City 2070 or the like). Once I'm done with my "research," perhaps I'll plink away at it a bit in my spare time -- Package Deal here and there, that sorta thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Respectfully' date=' then, I think you're complaining that "this book about Urban Fantasy doesn't have something in it that I want, even though what I want bears no direct relation to Urban Fantasy." [/quote'] My OP wasn't complaining, I was mildly disappointed but was expecting it. Though in all fairness it was you who said it was your tribute to Shadowrun, then I narrowed what I was important to me in the setting. I think we both can agree that cyberpunk is a very visible component of the setting without assigning it a value. With that in mind, and since I defined what it is to me and the question begs to be asked, what are those elements that you believe are definitively Shadowrun? I can't write a complete set of cyberware rules just to create a mini-setting for UFH' date=' since cyberware isn't an element of Urban Fantasy.[/quote'] it was in my OP but I can agree with this a 100%. The space required to craft an original setting that captures the cybperpunk and magical feel of Shadowrun would be insufficient in one chapter. It would be an interesting hypothetical question how one would go about crafting such a setting without infringing on copyrighted material. The breadth of writing in the core, and branching genres, becomes and asset. Not muddying one vision but provide fodder for others. A more immediate question is where would it go? Assuming such a setting is created or setting in UF are 'uplifted' to sc-fi, does it belong in the Fantasy Hero forum, Star Hero Forum, or the other genres forum? As it is I see some cross pollenation in the forums as magic specific questions are shunted to the Fantasy Hero forum and technology specific questions are shunted to the Dark Champions forums. Getting something closer to Shadowrun will just have to wait for Cyber Hero. Fortunately' date=' I think CH is a restricted enough genre that it's a book I could write anytime during the year, rather than having to save it for a GenCon release. All I would need would be enough advance notice to do the research -- but as a matter of fact I happen to have started doing that research back in November, so I'll be set whenever it looks like a good addition to the schedule. [/quote'] I assume it would be a 6th Edition book or is there still a chance for a 5ER version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Getting something closer to Shadowrun will just have to wait for Cyber Hero. Fortunately, I think CH is a restricted enough genre that it's a book I could write anytime during the year, rather than having to save it for a GenCon release. All I would need would be enough advance notice to do the research -- but as a matter of fact I happen to have started doing that research back in November, so I'll be set whenever it looks like a good addition to the schedule. Hmm..I'd be pretty interested in how you're planning to build the cyberware. IIRC, you weren't too keen on the way it was done in 4th ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts I don't necessarily think it was badly done in 4E, I just think I have the tools to do it better. Part of the fun of writing CH will be to show multiple approaches to cyberware, since as a genre book it should showcase the possibilities rather than presenting a One True Way whenever reasonably possible. So any given piece of cyberware might have options for being easily removed (a Focus), surgically implanted (not a Focus at all), using up some of the character's "life force" as a restrictive factor (a Side Effect, probably), etc., etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts I assume it would be a 6th Edition book or is there still a chance for a 5ER version? CH would definitely be a 6E product at this point. The schedule leading up to 6E is pretty much set, at least to the extent of not being able to wedge in another all-new book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts CH would definitely be a 6E product at this point. The schedule leading up to 6E is pretty much set' date=' at least to the extent of not being able to wedge in another all-new book. [/quote'] I can't commit to buying anything for 6th Ed until I see it. But I'm still curious about what I asked the in the quoted post, namely the what elements of Shadowrun you chose to pay homage too. It's hard for me to see past the cyberpunk and I'd like to hear your take on it it's fantasy elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Sorry, missed that. Overall I'd say my main thrust was to look at the magic system and background and say to myself, "If I were to do something like this, but without slavishly copying it, what would I do?" So, for example, there's a strong mythological element coupled with a sort of "scientific" approach to the study of magic and categorization of spells by "mainstream" wizards, plus an assortment of "secondary" types of magic that sort of tree off the main form or alter it in some way to suit a cultural lore or theme. Basically I tried to keep the "feel" of SR magic that I liked while eliminating some aspects of SR magic that I don't care for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: urban fantasy hero posts Shadowrun has always been an "A + B" setting anyway - it's not going to be too difficult to take "Urban Fantasy Hero" and "Cyber Hero" and mash them together... It's not really hard. Even with the old 4 Ed CyberHero book, although you'll need to do quite a bit of updating. But a setting, even a small one, written with this data in mine is a *huge* time saver. Conceivably I could do my own Shadowrun Hero game, or Torg Hero, Bloodshadows Hero and Rifts Hero with nothing more than the core rulebook. But the amount of time I would spend writing and converting material? Especially for a game that might only run a few sessions if players aren't interested? It's not a good use of time when I could buy something "out of the box" and run with it. It's my firm belief that anybody who buys supplements with the intent use them buys them because they are either collections of lists (lists of magic items, lists of guns, lists of villains) or because they have a pre-packaged idea ready to go whether it's a module or a game world. In both cases they serve as simple shortcuts as most troupes are creative enough and rules savvy enough to create all this material on their own from the core rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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