Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

So you're a power munchkin. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into. I find it a bore.

Why are you even here?

 

You've done nothing but bad mouth the current system and made it quite clear that you want to continue to run on an edition of the Hero System that might be charitably described as neolithic.

 

Since you are new here, you might want to learn some better manners and be a little more polite in your interactions.

 

TB

[Thag13]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

Hey Guys and Gals....lets just cool it off a bit....OK?? Lets have some fun here with the builds... I am speaking as a mod here....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

I'd rather see a player build a cleverly designed megascale power with an interesting effect than just spend the points on more CV, defenses and damage classes. I consider the latter more a power munchkin than the former.

 

Sure, Megascale can be abused. So can Energy Blast. With 350 points, or even 250 points, I can easily buy a 20d6 Energy Blast with, say, 16 charges. My remaining points can build a plain character with competitive OCV, DCV, defenses, movement, etc. In most Supers games, having a 20DC attack would be excessive - munchkinny - far more than being able to fly or teleport anywhere on the planet in a matter of seconds, or being able to call up a rainstorm that covers the entire county.

 

Or, a popular 4e construct, 2d6 Aid, Stun and END, 0 END, persistent. Every phase, get back an average of 7 STUN and 14 END. Policing that in 4e was no easier than policing Megascale in 5e or 6e.

[brionl]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

I always try to enforce this when I build a character' date=' and I look for it in other people's builds as well. Unless the character is specifically built to highlight some limitation I expect some sort powers and stats in the build to handle these issues and some discussion of the rationale in the write-up.[/quote']

 

It depends on the genre you're playing. Moody, angsty, ultra-violent Iron Age comics? Yes. Whacky, over-the-top, Silver Age fun stuff? No.

The corollary to "If it isn't a limitation, you don't get points for it." Is "If you aren't getting points for it, it isn't a limitation." Flash can run at mach-plus speeds through the middle of a city w/o breaking every window because he didn't take a side effects limitation on his movement power.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

Sure, Megascale can be abused. So can Energy Blast. With 350 points, or even 250 points, I can easily buy a 20d6 Energy Blast with, say, 16 charges.

 

You can build a 250 point character capable of destroying the known universe. My first Champs GM hung out with guys who, in 4e, made 250 point characters who could flatten the high-end Dr. Destroyer in a phase (as in, each individual PC could). HERO is the most utterly abusable system on the face of the planet because of how open-ended it is. That's why you create this like campaign guidelines and watch character creation carefully, and play with players who simply don't want to do such things.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

It depends on the genre you're playing. Moody, angsty, ultra-violent Iron Age comics? Yes. Whacky, over-the-top, Silver Age fun stuff? No.

The corollary to "If it isn't a limitation, you don't get points for it." Is "If you aren't getting points for it, it isn't a limitation." Flash can run at mach-plus speeds through the middle of a city w/o breaking every window because he didn't take a side effects limitation on his movement power.

 

The effects of powers on the environment and such are basically handwaved within the genre rules of the Champions setting. I was talking more about the little things in character building. If I build a Flash rip-off of some sort, I like to add in things like a naked Rapid advantage for normal sight and hearing and resistant protection through a special costume or a force-field-like aura. I just like doing that, and I also like builds by others where those little grace notes have been considered.

 

I wouldn't as a GM necessarily demand that, but I think even with the most generic of builds there should be some stuff like that included. It's not necessarily wanting to go Iron Age, I just have always enjoyed it when the comics writers tried to explain things, even with implausible rubber science. You have to remember that the Silver Age started with this kind of stuff with the Flash. Unless the player said that he wanted to play up a theoretical limitation and wrote his character that way, I wouldn't severely penalize him, or penalize him at all for that matter.. That's not in keeping with the general Champions guidelines.

 

You can build a 250 point character capable of destroying the known universe. My first Champs GM hung out with guys who' date=' in 4e, made 250 point characters who could flatten the high-end Dr. Destroyer in a phase (as in, each individual PC could). HERO is the most utterly abusable system on the face of the planet because of how open-ended it is. That's why you create this like campaign guidelines and watch character creation carefully, and play with players who simply don't want to do such things.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I used to play with guys like that, and I didn't always enjoy it. I would bring a fairly faithful rendition of Hawkeye or Iron Fist to the table, and these guys would have their abusive demigod-on-a-budget builds. As much as I dislike some of the added complexity of the later editions of Champions, I do recognize the need for a lot of the new guidelines and extensive stop signage in the text. Hero needs a strong GM who knows the rules pretty well and is not afraid to say no.

[phoenix240]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

The effects of powers on the environment and such are basically handwaved within the genre rules of the Champions setting. I was talking more about the little things in character building. If I build a Flash rip-off of some sort, I like to add in things like a naked Rapid advantage for normal sight and hearing and resistant protection through a special costume or a force-field-like aura. I just like doing that, and I also like builds by others where those little grace notes have been considered.

 

I wouldn't as a GM necessarily demand that, but I think even with the most generic of builds there should be some stuff like that included. It's not necessarily wanting to go Iron Age, I just have always enjoyed it when the comics writers tried to explain things, even with implausible rubber science. You have to remember that the Silver Age started with this kind of stuff with the Flash. Unless the player said that he wanted to play up a theoretical limitation and wrote his character that way, I wouldn't severely penalize him, or penalize him at all for that matter.. That's not in keeping with the general Champions guidelines.

 

 

 

Yeah, I used to play with guys like that, and I didn't always enjoy it. I would bring a fairly faithful rendition of Hawkeye or Iron Fist to the table, and these guys would have their abusive demigod-on-a-budget builds. As much as I dislike some of the added complexity of the later editions of Champions, I do recognize the need for a lot of the new guidelines and extensive stop signage in the text. Hero needs a strong GM who knows the rules pretty well and is not afraid to say no.

 

And occasionally "Hell no!"

[Alverant]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

But this also triggered some frightening thoughts... Earth's escape velocity is 11.2 km/sec. Or just think of it as 12" Megascale 1" = 1 km. Yup. With just 12" of movement, you can reach escape velocity in a single phase. Just watch out for the guy with Megascale flight Usable as a Weapon. Even if you can survive in space, if you can't fly back, you're on a one-way ticket ride.

 

Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I've screwed up the calculations. But then show me what it does take to reach escape velocity or break Lightspeed with a little Megascale movement.

I think unofficially you should be calculating your velocity over a turn when comparing game mechanics to real world speeds. So if you have a SPD of 6 you're only half way there to escape velocity. So you need to spend the points for enough NCM so your velocity is 134.4 km/turn.

[Christopher]

Re: Megascale Movement, Lightspeed, and Escape Velocity

 

I think unofficially you should be calculating your velocity over a turn when comparing game mechanics to real world speeds. So if you have a SPD of 6 you're only half way there to escape velocity. So you need to spend the points for enough NCM so your velocity is 134.4 km/turn.

That is the official way from 6E2 24.

 

At this speed/turn (134.4 km) you would also be at a Velocity based DCV of 25 instead of the normal NCM/Megascale DCV.