Ultimate Suppresser

[davethebrave]

Hi! I recently purchased the 5th revised core book and a couple Champions books, and am wondering what the best way to go about creating the ultimate suppresser (suppressor?) in 125 points'd be, no active point limits, but still making it a survivable, playable character. This thread isn't "build me my character" so much as it is me wanting to see how the experts on these boards would go about building a character so I can get a feel for character creation.

Oh, my first post too. Be gentle, if I'm making some sort of faux pas.

[Karma]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Hi! I recently purchased the 5th revised core book and a couple Champions books' date=' and am wondering what the best way to go about creating the ultimate suppresser (suppressor?) in 125 points'd be, no active point limits, but still making it a survivable, playable character. This thread isn't "build me my character" so much as it is me wanting to see how the experts on these boards would go about building a character so I can get a feel for character creation. [/font']

Oh, my first post too. Be gentle, if I'm making some sort of faux pas.

 

Faux Pas?!! Faux Pas?!!! You dare type in French!!! [Horrible French Accent] I mock you and your French typing[/Horrible French Accent]

 

O.k. All kidding aside my books are in another country so I really can't help. But welcome to the boards.

[Split Decision]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Well. I'm not an expert. Not like Karma. But I can mock French typing amateurishly...

 

..what? Oh!

 

My suggestion is a Cosmic VPP, Suppress Only (-2). So, something like 50 Control plus 100 in the pool. To the eral experts: Can you get away with a -2 for Suppress Only?

[JmOz]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Well. I'm not an expert. Not like Karma. But I can mock French typing amateurishly...

 

..what? Oh!

 

My suggestion is a Cosmic VPP, Suppress Only (-2). So, something like 50 Control plus 100 in the pool. To the eral experts: Can you get away with a -2 for Suppress Only?

 

-2 would probably be on the high side for it IMO, to useful, but may something like "-3/4 only for negative adjustment powers" would include Drains, suppress, in my games dispell as well

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Ok, newbie question here, what is the advantage/disadvantage of taking the VPP over an actual power (i.e. why take Suppress over a VPP, and vice versa)?

[Split Decision]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Another good question! With the VPP, you can change the type of suppress every phase- for instance, you can suppress mutant powers one phase and fire powers the next. Also, you can apply whichever advantages and adders you need to in order to achieve the best bang for the buck. In addition, if you can come up with enough limitations to equal -1, you can have two seperate powers running at once, for the same real point cost of having one.

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Another good question! With the VPP' date=' you can change the type of suppress every phase- for instance, you can suppress mutant powers one phase and fire powers the next. Also, you can apply whichever advantages and adders you need to in order to achieve the best bang for the buck. In addition, if you can come up with enough limitations to equal -1, you can have two seperate powers running at once, for the same real point cost of having one.[/quote']

 

hahaha, woah! So is there any reason to take just a base power when you can take a VPP?!

[ideasmith]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

hahaha' date=' woah! So is there [b']any[/b] reason to take just a base power when you can take a VPP?!

 

A VPP costs more points than a single base power. A lot more points.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Elucidate: do you mean "you only want to spend 125 points on this effect", or "the character is only 125 points"?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

I don't think a VPP is really necessary.

 

I think this would fit the description and points quite nicely.

Just add Limitations.

 

125 I'm Suppressing Your Powers!: Suppress 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), Variable Effect: any [special effect] power one at a time (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Source Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (125 Active Points)

[Notes: Variable Effect - (Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 75; Revised, page 111) This Modifier allows an Adjustment Power to be applied to any Characteristic or Power within a related group of special effects. Variable Special Effect - (Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 178; Revised, page 278) The special effects of a Power with this Advantage can vary. This Advantage has no direct effect on combat.] - END=5

[JmOz]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Sorry my hyperkinetic friend, but I don't think that would acomplish what you desire

 

You need to choose a f/x for what you can suppress with it

 

Var F/X does not let you get around it, it just lets you change the how of it, so you might be suppressing fire powers, this might be (based on Var F/X) because of magic, your technology, your control of fire, or your control of the great egg of happieness, but in the end it it does not let you change what you are effecting

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Also, as has come up before, "Suppress vs All" is really not a supportable mechanic. Or at least, it doesn't do what you think it might do ( suppress all powers ), because "all powers" is not really a meaningful concept.

[jwpacker]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Sorry my hyperkinetic friend, but I don't think that would acomplish what you desire

 

You need to choose a f/x for what you can suppress with it

 

Var F/X does not let you get around it, it just lets you change the how of it, so you might be suppressing fire powers, this might be (based on Var F/X) because of magic, your technology, your control of fire, or your control of the great egg of happieness, but in the end it it does not let you change what you are effecting

 

Interesting...he would need to pick a special effect for that to work...so, is there an appropriately large advantage version of Variable Effect that would allow suppress to suppress whatever power the character chooses, one at a time? Or even more awe inspiring, all powers regardless of sfx?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Sorry my hyperkinetic friend, but I don't think that would acomplish what you desire

 

You need to choose a f/x for what you can suppress with it

 

Var F/X does not let you get around it, it just lets you change the how of it, so you might be suppressing fire powers, this might be (based on Var F/X) because of magic, your technology, your control of fire, or your control of the great egg of happieness, but in the end it it does not let you change what you are effecting

 

 

That's why I also included Variable Effect as well. It DOES allow you to affect any power or characteristic within a specific SFX. Combined with Variable SFX he can affect any ability.

[JmOz]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

That's why I also included Variable Effect as well. It DOES allow you to affect any power or characteristic within a specific SFX. Combined with Variable SFX he can affect any ability.

 

Yes it allows you to affect any power or characteristic single F/X, agreed

 

HOWEVER where you are are making the mistake is in thinking that variable F/X allows you to change the F/X you can affect, it allows you to change the F/X of how you can do it, not what you can do

[Zed-F]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

JmOz is correct, Variable SFX doesn't change what SFX your power can affect, it changes the SFX of the mechanism whereby your power works.

 

If you really want to be able to suppress *anything* and you don't have a list of possible kinds of SFX that exist in the game, then VPP is the way to do it.

 

If you do have a list of SFX that are possible to suppress then you can just buy a MP with a slot for each kind of suppressable SFX in it.

 

You could make a house rule for adjustment powers based on Variable Effect, so that:

- suppress any SFX, one at a time is a +1/4 (So any one power from any one SFX is a total of +1/2)

- suppress two SFXes at once is +1/2

- suppress 4 SFXes at once is +1

- suppress all SFXes at once is +2 (So suppressing all powers from all SFXes is a +4 advantage)

But (a) it would be a house rule and ( it would be a big ol' stop sign.

 

Really if you are talking about suppressing everything then you're talking about a plot device, not a character. I wouldn't bother to stat it up, I'd just say 'he does it.'

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Yes it allows you to affect any power or characteristic single F/X, agreed

 

HOWEVER where you are are making the mistake is in thinking that variable F/X allows you to change the F/X you can affect, it allows you to change the F/X of how you can do it, not what you can do

 

 

OOPS...

 

Another reason why I hate adjustment powers.

 

In that case VPP is the way to go then.

[Split Decision]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

hahaha' date=' woah! So is there [b']any[/b] reason to take just a base power when you can take a VPP?!

 

With the Variable Power Pool, you're sacrificing point-efficiency for flexability. For instance:

 

125 25d6 Suppress Lack Of Weakness. END: 25 Real Cost: 125.

 

Nobody could possibly use Lack of Weakness around you ever.

 

75 VPP: Suppress Powers Pool. Cosmic (+2), Suppress Only (-1)

50 Point Pool Real Cost: 125.

 

In this construction, you can have any flavor of Suppress, as long as the Active Points didn't exceed 50. You could have a straight Suppress versus anything at 10d6, or an Area of Effect at 5d6, whatever. You're never going to touch the raw power of the first construction versus Lack of Weakness, but you can have some reasonably strong effect against almost anything.

[JmOz]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

OOPS...

 

Another reason why I hate adjustment powers.

 

In that case VPP is the way to go then.

 

np

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Elucidate: do you mean "you only want to spend 125 points on this effect"' date=' or "the character is only 125 points"?[/quote']

 

Sorry, character is only 125 points. So far I've seen a lot of good builds for this power, but a 125 point build might be a bit excessive, considering that'd leave me with all 10 characteristics and no skills or talents.

 

I guess I'm more or less wanting a character that, after choosing the suppression power (whatever variety that takes) is also really playable without the power, so a 125 point power would sort of preclude that.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Honestly, 125 points, you'll be hard pressed to build super *anything*, let alone something as exotic as a power suppressor.

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Honestly' date=' 125 points, you'll be hard pressed to build super *anything*, let alone something as exotic as a power suppressor.[/quote']

 

Ah. Well what would you recommend for starters. Obviously, I've got some good ideas for targets to try and hit once I start earning exp, but as a start, what kind of suppression would be a realistic amount to go for while still retaining enough for some skills/perks/traits and above average characteristics?

 

i.e. what is a reasonable amount of points in a 125 point build to pump into either the power or VPP, and still have a playable amount left over.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Um, none? 125 points is on the low side for a non-powered character in a mundane setting. You'll be hard pressed to fit any power of any kind in there. As for VPPs, the only thing even slightly feasible would be a "mystic ritual" VPP. And even then, even with a whole bunch of limitations, you'd probably have to spend half your budget to get even 30 points.

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Um' date=' none? 125 points is on the low side for a non-powered character in a mundane setting. You'll be hard pressed to fit any power of any kind in there. As for VPPs, the only thing even slightly feasible would be a "mystic ritual" VPP. And even then, even with a whole bunch of limitations, you'd probably have to spend half your budget to get even 30 points.[/quote']

 

Huh. I thought 75 was low for a powered character. My impression was that 125 was the high end for heroes, and just under low end for superheroes. So you'd recommend not taking a power at all with 125 points?

[Karma]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Huh. I thought 75 was low for a powered character. My impression was that 125 was the high end for heroes' date=' and just under low end for superheroes. So you'd recommend not taking a power at all with 125 points?[/quote']

 

I think the issue is that different people have different ideas of what constitutes a 'Superhero'. For some it may be a single power, maybe 2, possibly with harsh Limitations (the Teen champions model). Others don't consider a character 'super' unless he has a 1000 pt VPP and can defend the world from alien invasion single handed (Galactic Champions model). Most are somewhere in the middle.

 

Your character may have to in the former category for a while, until he/she builds up some experience. Try not thinking 'Ultimate' anything but instead think 'Suppress' with a special effect that will allow them to one day work up to 'Ultimate' level as they spend XP on it.

 

"Hey look I just worked out how to Suppress other types of Electricity based powers" ... "Hey look I just worked out how to suppress more than one electricity based power at a time",... (many years later)... "You do realise that I can remove all of your powers, and I'm talking to your entire Skrull Armada, without breaking a sweat."