defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

[garlic]

We're new to Hero, and this past week our mentalist used Telekenesis to grab and immediately throw the badguy that we were battling that was standing his ground at a particular point to cast a spell. Mechanic-wise, all he did was role his attack, and upon success compare his TK strength to the weight of the badguy to determine throw distance.

 

Is there no defense against a TK throw like this? Or put another way, is there any defense against getting thrown at all? I'm more concerned with the forced movement then of the damage done.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

TK is essentially STR usable at Range.

 

What is the defense against someone walking over and grabbing another person and immediately throwing them?

 

The answer to that question is the answer to yours as well.

(For details see 5er page 423 - Breaking Out Of Entangles And Grabs)

[TikiGawd]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

What is the defense against someone walking over and grabbing another person and immediately throwing them?

Clinging.

[rauer]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

While this would not apply to all (or even most) villain concepts, Density Increase might limit the possibility of being thrown, depending on how heavy the grabbed character is versus the strength/TK involved.

 

I say "might" because I am without rulebook, so I cannot look up the specific detail of what happens when a character tries to use a Throw/Martial Throw on something he cannot lift, but DI could be one method of defense.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

The point I was trying to make that everyone seems to be missing is that a Grab, no matter how it is performed, can be resisted by the target's STR.

 

This has to be resolved before any throwing can take place.

[ghost-angel]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

Beyond Hyper-Man's pointing out the relevant rules regarding being Grabbed and breaking out (i.e. the Casual STR Roll).

 

The best defense is to not get grabbed at all: i.e. High DCV.

[Sean Waters]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

There's a defence against grab+throw: being strong enough not to remain grabbed before you are thrown - but I don't think there is any defence against being thrown (as a martial manoeuvre). If you get hit then you get thrown. You might not get thrown far - if you are not strong compared to the weight of the target - but you will still be thrown (you'll end up prone unless you make a breakfall roll).

 

Interesting point: mechanically, even if the target weighs 10 megatonnes and you have 10 STR, you still throw the target prone.

 

Well, that is unless I've had a few too many pints to recall a rule that says you don't. Please, PLEASE, no one quote 'common and dramatic sense', because that varies from person to person.

[ghost-angel]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

Throwing Table pg35

 

You not only need enough STR to pick it up, you need STR Over that to throw more than 0".

 

If you lack any STR over what's needed to lift an object you can throw it only to the ground - effectively turning Grab+Throw into a simple Takedown (i.e. you trip them).

 

A 10STR Person lifting a Normal Human (default Hero weight) can throw that target 0"

 

After a Grab you make a Standing Throw, so a 15STR Person grabbing a Normal Adult Human (again, default Hero weight) can throw them 1"

 

Also p400 under Martial Throw (which a Normal Grab+Throw is subject to the same rules per p386):

A character cannot Throw a Target that he cannot lift with his Pushed Strength.

 

So take relief Sean, 10STR Man can't throw 10Megaton Guy no matter what, not even prone.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

There's a section on resisting Throws in the UMA if memory serves.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

There's a section on resisting Throws in the UMA if memory serves.

 

Yep, it's on page 153.

[ghost-angel]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

There's a section on resisting Throws in the UMA if memory serves.

 

Yes, page 153.

 

 

Ha! Hyper-Man beat me to it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

Throwing Table pg35

 

You not only need enough STR to pick it up, you need STR Over that to throw more than 0".

 

If you lack any STR over what's needed to lift an object you can throw it only to the ground - effectively turning Grab+Throw into a simple Takedown (i.e. you trip them).

 

A 10STR Person lifting a Normal Human (default Hero weight) can throw that target 0"

 

After a Grab you make a Standing Throw, so a 15STR Person grabbing a Normal Adult Human (again, default Hero weight) can throw them 1"

 

Also p400 under Martial Throw (which a Normal Grab+Throw is subject to the same rules per p386):

A character cannot Throw a Target that he cannot lift with his Pushed Weight.

 

So take relief Sean, 10STR Man can't throw 10Megaton Guy no matter what, not even prone.

 

Cool - and thanks for the reference/

 

That leads to a sort of defence: increased density (only to avoid being thrown (-2). You sort of make yourself too heavy to throw.

 

Alternatively +DCV only against throw manoeuvres

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

The "defense" I have always used for throw-happy heroes is Breakfall. It doesn't prevent the throw, but it potentially nullifies it. It isn't appropriate for everyone, but it keeps the villain from ending up prone, waiting for the coup de grace from the other heroes. I find it especially fitting after the heroes have used the down-to-the-ground-and-pound manuever (which is good teamwork BTW) on the minor bad guys, but then have to be more clever for the master villian.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

Cool - and thanks for the reference/

 

That leads to a sort of defence: increased density (only to avoid being thrown (-2). You sort of make yourself too heavy to throw.

 

Alternatively +DCV only against throw manoeuvres

 

Yes, DCV vs Target Falls is a useful combat trick...off the top of my head these two characters have it (in-game they cross-trained each other during a point in their careers when they adventured together, so they have some overlap between their abilities):

 

Saemund Magnussun

 

Taared

 

CANNOT BE TOPPLED ability in both cases.

 

 

I've occasionally used it in other genres as well, but I can't recall any posted examples off the top of my head. I'll stick it in the back brain and maybe I'll recall one.

[garlic]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

So it looks like the key we were missing was the immediate casual strength role.

 

Can someone abort to make a strength role between being grabbed and thrown?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

So it looks like the key we were missing was the immediate casual strength role.

 

Can someone abort to make a strength role between being grabbed and thrown?

 

I'd allow this. It seems like an obvious defensive use. Steve Long could give you the official answer, though.

[garlic]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

So it looks like the key we were missing was the immediate casual strength role.

 

Can someone abort to make a strength role between being grabbed and thrown?

[ghost-angel]

Re: defense against grabs / throws, and TK grabs / throws

 

Only if the GM permits.