Regenerating defences

[Sean Waters]

So, walking the dog again, and thinking about an effect that is pretty difficult to do in Hero: defences that are reduced by attacks that hit them but which, left to their own devices, recover quite quickly.

I came to the conclusion that this was best accomplished by a limitation: defences that can be worn away are not as useful as those that can not. I’m thinking -1/4 to -1/2. What do you think, given this ‘mechanic’:

1. Defences are reduced by the DC of incoming attacks, each attack that is stopped, even in part, by the defence is reduced by the DC of that attack: a 12d6 EB or 4d6 HKA would reduce the defence by 12, an 8d6 AP EB would reduce the defence by 8.

2. You recover DEF/SPD per phase to each defence, at the start of your phase, as a free action, if the defence is below maximum. You can not recover damage taken after the start of your phase, even if you delay your action, until your next phase. E.G. if you have a SPD of 5 and a regenerating 30pd/30ed force field, any reduction to your force field through damage recovers at a maximum of 6pd and 6ed at the start of each phase. NB if you are using the defence at less than full value then the recovery is based on the amount you are using. Recovery takes place whether or not the defence is active (you can not restore the defence by simply switching it off and on again).

3. Autofire attacks do the DC of the attack +1 per attack that hits

Example:

Amazing Amazon has a 30 pd regenerating force field she defines as defence manoeuvres (she parries blows). She has a SPD of 5, so recovers 8/phase. She is fighting a 5 SPD opponent with a lower DEX.

PH3: Hit v 30 PD and PD reduced to 18.

PH5: PD recovers to 26. Hit v 26 PD and PD reduced to 14.

PH8: PD recovers to 22. Hit v 22 PD and PD reduced to 10.

PH10: PD recovers to 18. Missed.

PH12: PD recovers to 24. Missed.

PH3: PD recovers to 30. Hit v 30 PD and PD reduced to 18.

Rinse and repeat.

I was also thinking, on a related track, that there are only 3 ‘meta-effects’ for damage: physical, energy or mental. Every attack that causes damage of any sort (including adjustment powers) have to have one of those meta-effects from which they may derive more specific sfx. Is that right, do you think?

Another effect that is quite awkward to do is only using a defence when it is needed: you can accomplish that with a trigger, of course, but what I’m envisaging is, say, a force field that switches on when you are hit, protecting you, but is basically quiescent when not needed, so it doesn’t use END and is not visible. Trigger is simply too expensive for the effect: the trouble is that trigger is relatively poor value for non-attack powers. I’m thinking, perhaps, a +1/4 advantage: only used when needed.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

How about this?

 

Buy the defenses with 0 END and IPE (if necessary) and then take a Side Effects Limitation that is a Drain vs. the defenses & END.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

How about this?

 

Buy the defenses with 0 END and IPE (if necessary) and then take a Side Effects Limitation that is a Drain vs. the defenses & END.

 

Well the trouble is that works out even more expensive (at least in terms of Active Points, which is bad for some builds) than doing it with trigger, although (depending on what you allow for the lim) might work out better on real cost. It is certainly a lot more complex (even though I know the complexity is 'front loaded' into the build stage)...also Drain doesn't quite do the same thing as loss of END as it is not tied to REC - on another point I've often thought you should be able to define EBs and maybe other attacks as doing 'damage' to END.

[Ice9]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

Given that the +1/4 level covers "Only costs END to activate", I think it would be a reasonable value for "Only when necessary". The only place that breaks down is if the power has significant side effects (such as a force field which blocks sight when used), in which case I'd raise the value by an additional +1/2 (making it equal to an automatic-reset fixed trigger).

 

As for the regenerating ablative defenses, I'm not sure about the limitation value, but I'm thinking at least -1/2. In the case of a commonly hit defense, I could see it being worth -1; it would become nearly useless when facing a crowd of foes, for instance. For a rarer defense, or for a character that could avoid being hit most of the time, it's a lot more potent - so maybe -1/2 is the right way to go.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

The big problem as I see it is bureaucracy. There are already so many things to keep track of, if you make this complex it is opne more thing that might get lost.

 

I think I'd be looking for a simple system. Build the thing in blocks. If, in one turn the defence takes x number of hits greater than y DC then the defence is removed of z phases, the defence will 'heal' in q phases. That will require notation on the character sheet but should be a simple matter of a number and a few boxes to tick.

 

Personally I would fix it so that x = q. You would tick off the boxes as the defence takes the hits and erase them as phases tick by until it is healed.

 

For effect you could build a series of such defences so that they slowly go down over time, the outer defences cannot heal until all the ones below it are full.

 

This requires less thought - just a lot of ticks on a character sheet.

 

Doc

[ideasmith]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

So, walking the dog again, and thinking about an effect that is pretty difficult to do in Hero: defences that are reduced by attacks that hit them but which, left to their own devices, recover quite quickly.

I came to the conclusion that this was best accomplished by a limitation: defences that can be worn away are not as useful as those that can not. I’m thinking -1/4 to -1/2. What do you think, given this ‘mechanic’:

 

1.Defences are reduced by the DC of incoming attacks, each attack that is stopped, even in part, by the defence is reduced by the DC of that attack: a 12d6 EB or 4d6 HKA would reduce the defence by 12, an 8d6 AP EB would reduce the defence by 8.

2.You recover DEF/SPD per phase to each defence, at the start of your phase, as a free action, if the defence is below maximum. You can not recover damage taken after the start of your phase, even if you delay your action, until your next phase. E.G. if you have a SPD of 5 and a regenerating 30pd/30ed force field, any reduction to your force field through damage recovers at a maximum of 6pd and 6ed at the start of each phase. NB if you are using the defence at less than full value then the recovery is based on the amount you are using. Recovery takes place whether or not the defence is active (you can not restore the defence by simply switching it off and on again).

3.Autofire attacks do the DC of the attack +1 per attack that hits

Example:

Amazing Amazon has a 30 pd regenerating force field she defines as defence manoeuvres (she parries blows). She has a SPD of 5, so recovers 8/phase. She is fighting a 5 SPD opponent with a lower DEX.

PH3: Hit v 30 PD and PD reduced to 18.

PH5: PD recovers to 26. Hit v 26 PD and PD reduced to 14.

PH8: PD recovers to 22. Hit v 22 PD and PD reduced to 10.

PH10: PD recovers to 18. Missed.

PH12: PD recovers to 24. Missed.

PH3: PD recovers to 30. Hit v 30 PD and PD reduced to 18.

Rinse and repeat.

 

Ablative (5ER page 115) seems a good starting point here.

 

I was also thinking' date=' on a related track, that there are only 3 ‘meta-effects’ for damage: physical, energy or mental. Every attack that causes damage of any sort (including adjustment powers) have to have one of those meta-effects from which they may derive more specific sfx. Is that right, do you think?[/quote']

 

I would add at least five more: sensory overload, mystic, quantum, biochemical, and deprivation.

 

Another effect that is quite awkward to do is only using a defence when it is needed: you can accomplish that with a trigger' date=' of course, but what I’m envisaging is, say, a force field that switches on when you are hit, protecting you, but is basically quiescent when not needed, so it doesn’t use END and is not visible. Trigger is simply too expensive for the effect: the trouble is that trigger is relatively poor value for non-attack powers. I’m thinking, perhaps, a +1/4 advantage: only used when needed.[/quote']

 

Buy your forcefield with a Limited Advantage: 'No END Cost' with 'still costs END if defence used' If the power has penalties for use other than END cost, apply similar adjustments.

[Kenn]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

40 20 PD armour, limited power(-1/2): loses 1 pt of PD per 1 BODY "taken"; regains at 5 PD per phase AND 20 ED armour, limited power(-1/2): loses 1 pt of ED per 1 BODY "taken"; regains at 5 ED per phase.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

40 20 PD armour' date=' limited power(-1/2): loses 1 pt of PD per 1 BODY "taken"; regains at 5 PD per phase AND 20 ED armour, limited power(-1/2): loses 1 pt of ED per 1 BODY "taken"; regains at 5 ED per phase.[/quote']

 

When you say BODY taken do you mean per BODY of attack applied against that defence or per BODY that gets through the defence? Would make a big difference on the limitation value I would apply!

 

 

Doc

[JohnTaber]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

I did this for my Star Hero game...similar to your idea...

 

1.1.1.1 Fragmenting Defense

 

This is a new limitation that can be taken on defensive powers. It is used to reflect a defense that chips away as it is struck. In essence this is a very specific form of the Side Effect limitation. I got the idea from an article in Digital Hero and modified it to suit my needs.

 

Fragmenting is a base –1 limitation. When struck a fragmenting defense loses 1 point of PD or ED based on the attack type. For every point of Body done that exceeds the defenses given by the power an additional point of PD or ED must be removed. The adjustment in the defense is done after the effects of the damage are applied. Here is a brief example. An energy attack that does 8 Body hits a 10 PD/10 ED Force Field. No Body gets through and the target gets to use the full 10 ED for soaking the damage. After the attack the Force Field is considers 10 PD/9 ED. If the attack did 12 Body the resulting Force Field would be 10 PD/7 ED.

 

At the end of each turn the power recovers 1 point of PD or ED. The recovery rate can be changed by moving up or down the time chart. For each move up the chart a –1/4 additional limitation is granted. For each move down the chart a +1/4 move is made in the value of the limitation.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

I did this for my Star Hero game...similar to your idea...

 

1.1.1.1Fragmenting Defense

 

This is a new limitation that can be taken on defensive powers. It is used to reflect a defense that chips away as it is struck. In essence this is a very specific form of the Side Effect limitation. I got the idea from an article in Digital Hero and modified it to suit my needs.

 

Fragmenting is a base –1 limitation. When struck a fragmenting defense loses 1 point of PD or ED based on the attack type. For every point of Body done that exceeds the defenses given by the power an additional point of PD or ED must be removed. The adjustment in the defense is done after the effects of the damage are applied. Here is a brief example. An energy attack that does 8 Body hits a 10 PD/10 ED Force Field. No Body gets through and the target gets to use the full 10 ED for soaking the damage. After the attack the Force Field is considers 10 PD/9 ED. If the attack did 12 Body the resulting Force Field would be 10 PD/7 ED.

 

At the end of each turn the power recovers 1 point of PD or ED. The recovery rate can be changed by moving up or down the time chart. For each move up the chart a –1/4 additional limitation is granted. For each move down the chart a +1/4 move is made in the value of the limitation.

 

We have a winner

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Regenerating defences

 

Fragmenting is a base –1 limitation.

 

I'm sure that having used it the limitation obviously works for you and your game.

 

Did you consider setting the limitation based on the DC of the game.

 

If the game maximum DC is 12 then -1 limitation provides a -1 limitation.

 

If you want more than that then the limitation should be less - the defence will fragment much more slowly...

 

If you want less then you should get more - the defence will evaporate very quickly....

 

 

Doc