Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

[Naanomi]

Hello, I will be playing in my first champions game... still trying to get a hold of the rules. The character I want to play is a child-martial artist... I've got a good back-story about past lives and being taught in my (heavy sleeper) dreams by my grandfather. Overall a high agility wuxia type character.

 

I'm piecing it all together, and having trouble with my 'signature move'. I want a 'soft martial strike' that attacks a person's life energy to paralyze them. There seem so many ways to build this effect, and I am wondering what would be the most effective?

 

Any route I go would be 'requires an attack roll, touch range, only effects living things' attacks. Ego attacks, mental entanglement, agility/speed drains, 'transform' a person into a paralyzed person, high stun 'no normal defense' attack? Which works best for the classic 'touch your pressure points/chakra gates/whatever and down you go', particularly with the 'no permanent damage caused when you wake up' effect.

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

The best way is probably an Entangle invisible to Damage. If you want it more Chi/Ki based, you could make it a BOECV Entangle. This would be a lot more effective, but has the weird effect of having to use your EGO to hit not your DEX, although I suppose you could add a limitation of contested skill roll to it (CV vs DCV). That would mean you'd have to hit with your OCV and your ECV.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

I think a better approach might be to step back from mechanics for a moment and answer the following questions:

 

• What do you want to be the 'appropriate' defense to such an attack?
  
• Does the character himself actually possess such a defense?
  
• Should he?
  

Once you answer these questions the matter of appropriate mechanics should work themselves out accordingly.

 

HM

[Naanomi]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

What do you want to be the 'appropriate' defense to such an attack?

 

As I imagine it, the defense would be 'don't be hit'... either by dodging or wearing extensive armor that does not leave an opening to be touched. I will have a normal attack to try to strip away armor, but not nearly as effective. I would also be next-to-helpless in dealing with robots and other 'non-living' targets (undead, golems, some 'rock aliens', elemental enemies, beings composed of pure energy)

 

 

Does the character himself actually possess such a defense? Should he?

 

In terms of having good dodging abilities, yes... and later if there is a 'ki defense' rating of some sort, I might buy it up to show increasing mastery of his own internal energy.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

As I imagine it, the defense would be 'don't be hit'... either by dodging or wearing extensive armor that does not leave an opening to be touched.

 

Typically, armor (the special effect) or Armor (the Hero System Power) do not affect the determination of whether a character is hit by an attack at all.

Instead, they provide a defense to taking damage from attacks that do hit.

 

So it sounds like you are suggesting that armor or Armor would provide the defense to this attack.

 

Is that correct?

[Naanomi]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Indeed... I have to hit the enemy's 'pressure/chakra' points, which might work through loose cloth and everyday clothes (so not the 'must touch skin' requirement), but hard armor and the like will have to be broken through/stripped off/whatever to be effective. So the two defenses I propose is to move out of the way or cover up those vital pressure points (which would be numerous across the body, so a good small opening on the torso or head, or larger opening on a limb would be sufficient)

[greenbriar]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Building a Hinata/Neji homage, I see.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

You do understand that Armor (the Hero Power) does not have to look like armor (the special effect)?

 

The more details you keep describing the more it seems like a case for a Hand To Hand Attack with one of the following:

 

• No Normal Defense Advantage
  
• Find Weakness
  

[Naanomi]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Building a Hinata/Neji homage' date=' I see.[/quote']

 

Not quite, but same combat style... the 'little guy beats you up with superior semi-mystical knowledge of your body' archetype is an old one in the Martial Arts genre... either a kid or a really really old guy, either way... one touch and you are out.

 

You do understand that Armor (the Hero Power) does not have to look like armor (the special effect)?

 

The more details you keep describing the more it seems like a case for a Hand To Hand Attack with one of the following:

 

* No Normal Defense Advantage

* Find Weakness

 

 

I understand that Armor (the power) is not necessarily 'armor'... which is why I would have it be 'Stopped by worn armor -1/2' or something similar rather than actually be effected by the 'armor' rules. Bypassing the armor/defense reduction/whatever system is part of the reason I am struggling with the build... and why 'transformation -> paralyzed guy' seemed attractive as a bypass to the normal combat system.

 

Again, I am not perfect with the rules... and the GM is not here to look this over... but is this reasonable? Maybe with slight point reduction for a multi-power/power framework setup (once I figure out how those work )

 

"Sleeping Goddess Strike"

Major Transform 4d6

(living animals into paralyzed ones)

Transforms their 'spirit:, based on PRE,

Penetrating, Reduced Endurance

Slightly limited target: biological life only

Gestures (both hands) and Incantations: The flourish and kai shout

No Range, Requires attack roll with No Active Point penalty

Restrainable (requires both arms and hands free)

Cannot target area in armor (including heavy cloth)

Curable by successful profession: Acupuncturist (or Knowledge: Acupuncture)

Total Cost: 40 points

[Naanomi]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Again, I am not perfect with the rules... and the GM is not here to look this over... but is this reasonable? Maybe with slight point reduction for a multi-power/power framework setup (once I figure out how those work )

 

"Sleeping Goddess Strike"

Major Transform 4d6

(living animals into paralyzed ones)

Transforms their 'spirit:, based on PRE,

Penetrating, Reduced Endurance

Slightly limited target: biological life only

Gestures (both hands) and Incantations: The flourish and kai shout

No Range, Requires attack roll with No Active Point penalty

Restrainable (requires both arms and hands free)

Cannot target area in armor (including heavy cloth)

Curable by successful profession: Acupuncturist (or Knowledge: Acupuncture)

Total Cost: 40 points

[bubba smith]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

check out the witeup inNINJA HEROfor ALICE ONO that should help you out

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

I'd go with NND. The defense would be PD Force Fields and Hardened PD Armor.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

I'd go with NND. The defense would be PD Force Fields and Hardened PD Armor.

 

I wouldn't link the defense to mechanics, but to special effects, as the OP already described.

 

I'd also call wearing rigid armor a fairly common defense, so take the NND at +1/2 instead of +1.

 

I'd also say it was fair (b/c of the +1/2 level on the NND) to rule a reduced affect against partially armored targets. For example, suppose the character is facing a SWAT type with a solid helmet, a vest with trauma plates, and solid knee, elbow and back of hand padding. Some pressure points are covered, others aren't, and yet others are just harder to hit due to armor being in the way (hitting the neck of someone with a helmet and heavy ballistic vest is pretty tough, for instance).

 

So, rather than wasting table time on figuring out if these types of targets are vulnerable to the attack, or figure out OCV penalties on the fly, it's easier to say that if the attack roll succeeds, at least some pressure points were hit, some hit but the attack was either partially absorbed or partially deflected, and that the net result is a reduced effect.

 

So, net result is pretty simple to run and adjudicate. This may not be as satisfying for those who prefer a high granularity approach, but it'd work for me.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

So, rather than wasting table time on figuring out if these types of targets are vulnerable to the attack, or figure out OCV penalties on the fly, it's easier to say that if the attack roll succeeds, at least some pressure points were hit, some hit but the attack was either partially absorbed or partially deflected, and that the net result is a reduced effect.

 

So, net result is pretty simple to run and adjudicate. This may not be as satisfying for those who prefer a high granularity approach, but it'd work for me.

 

That’s actually not easier at all and is not simple to run. No Normal Defense is called an “all or nothing” effect in the rulebook. There is no set rules for having a “partially absorbed or partially deflected” results for “at least some pressure points being hit” to my knowledge, (at least not in 5er, in a supplement maybe?). It sounds like you are venturing into house rules rather than just dealing with assigning specific enough mechanics and or SFX up front.

 

What does figuring out OCV penalties on the fly have to do with anything? If it’s a super game I’d let any worn armor with an activation roll use that activation roll to see if it is covering the appropriate areas or not. Or you could just make it so “fully covering armor” works and “partial/minimal covering armor” does not work. Also, assuming a Super setting, some characters should be immune to pressure point attacks because, quite frankly, if you can get hit with a bullet without taking any damage, then no matter how hard someone pokes you with a finger it’s not going to hurt, pressure point or not. That’s partially why I said Hardened Armor (should have said fully covering Hardened defenses). If Hardened can stop Penetrating or Armor Piercing, it makes sense that it would stop “finger poking” whether or not it was natural or worn armor.

[Naanomi]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Actually, I was thinking the opposite... big invulnerable guys are often the targets taken down by finesse aimed blows in classic heroes stuff... the guys cocky enough to not wear armor or try too hard to dodge are the ones who pay the price for underestimating the attack.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Well if you don't like NND or Find Weakness there is also Attack Versus Limited Defense (ALVD).

[Lucius]

Re: Help with child 'soft martial artist' build

 

Ultimate Martial Artist discusses (page 104-105) the possibility of putting Advantages on Martial Manuevers.

 

A "paralysis" effect has always struck me as being an Uncontrolled Grab (i.e. you attack and then move on but the victim STAYS grabbed even though you're not, physically, holding them.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary