"revised" hit location chart?

[torchwolf]

Re: "revised" hit location chart?

 

Just a couple of comments - although there's nothing in the lower abdomen you can't "live without"' date=' significant damage to the liver or spleen (both highly vascularised) can cause internal bleeding, which can kill you within minutes. Penetrating wounds to the intestines almost always cause peritonitis. You won't die of it too quickly, but without medical care and antibiotics, it's almost always fatal.[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, I know this to be true: I personally know of a few cases where such injuries have been misdiagnosed as digestive imbalance at emergency wards, with fatal results.

 

In truth' date=' there are very few injuries which in real life will kill you within seconds: significant trauma to the brain, heart and spine - that's about it. Damage to the real vitals - lungs, liver, spleen and kidneys, or major blood vessels - will usually kill in minutes to days, without care. Pretty much any other significant injury might kill you (in days to weeks) or it might get better on its own.[/quote']

 

Damage to these organs can result from Hit Locations 9-13 (except if limbs are severed, when arteries are obviously pumping out blood at an unhealthy pace).

 

One possibility that I played with (but have never implemented) was to check for "Complications". In this approach' date=' hit locations functioned as they do currently, but any attack that did BOD was checked for "Complications" by rolling a D6. If you roll [b']under[/b] the BOD taken, you have a complication.

 

This is interesting. I think there are basically two logical ways to approach this:

1) the method you suggest here, which would be interesting to expand upon and maybe playtest some;

2) treating damage inflicting a certain amount of BODY as having hit a vital organ, with consequence going from from there - i.e. a hit-point-less system, focussing on actual wounds and injuries suffered.

 

All this is of course dependent on how much biological realism you want; even then, weapon experts will probably disagree. I have some ideas on biological effects, from having once worked with filing accident reports on neurological injuries at a local hospital.

 

In that case you simply roll another D6, and take the original damage again each turn, if you roll a 1 and move up the time chart from there: each minute if you roll a two, every five minutes if you roll a three, all the way up to each day if you roll a 6. This damage continues until you get appropriate medical treatment (ie: not normally a quick paramedic roll: meaning that you could potentially linger for weeks before expiring from an injury, or end with a minor injury that simply won't heal properly, or takes a long time to heal). A Paramedic roll, however, will stabilise the patient and allow you to reduce the speed at which you lose BOD, by 1 step up the time chart for every -2 it is made by. Each time you take "extra damage" check for disabling on the optional damage chart.

 

Locations which increase BOD taken (like the head) thus increase the risk of taking further damage. Those that decrease the BOD taken (like the limbs) reduce that risk. Still, a good shot to the limbs can still cause you to bleed out inside a minute, if you are unlucky.

 

This could work as you suggest, or be modified by further detail per Hit Location. It's ultimately a matter of abstraction level.

 

This system does not impact combat too much' date=' since most of the extra damage is deferred beyond the length of most heroic combats: it's a pretty rare fight that lasts more than a minute or two. However, it (intentionally) makes combat both much more volatile and much more lethal and makes wounds post combat, much more of a liability. It's also (intentionally) fairly simple/abstract: so it could realistically be used in games. I haven't tried it because I decided I needed neither more lethality or more volatility. [/quote']

 

I agree that this approach makes KAs even more volatile, although in another respect; while it doesn't imbalance the combat situation as much, it would tend to leave more lasting effects lingering a long while afterwards.

One observation: long-lasting after-effects of wounding tends to make PCs more careful both in themselves and on the issue of "necessary force", moreso than lethality in itself - death can be quick, but mortal injuries that takes some time to die from, have greater psychological impact in the long run.

 

I've played with the numbers and this actually gives relatively realistic outcomes with regard to real life numbers on surviving serious trauma (though it's a bit more stringent than realistic in terms of time)' date=' and by increasing volatility, you can end up with situations where someone can - albeit rarely - die from a punch to the face, or after falling off a horse.[/quote']

 

Those results are not very appropriate to most cinematic action.

That's what I'm thinking of along the other line - using damage modifiers (xSTUN, xBODY) to determine exactly what the result was in terms of biological effects.

 

NOTE: All of this of course have limited applicability to non-human concerns, unless parallel effects and guidelines are established.

 

The second point - on location 13 - is that while I understand it's meant to be an abstract lethal location' date=' in games where characters have segmented defences, you are more or less forced into assigning it a groin/lower abdomen location. Where characters might have DEF8 in one location and DEF0 in another, and that defines BOD and STUN multiples, it's difficult to just "let it float".[/quote']

 

As you brought up earlier in your post, there are several vital organs in Hit Location 13 apart from the groin area, even when defined as covered by Sectional Defenses.

 

Personally, the first time this situation came up I GMed that "Don't be absurd - judging from that kind of lethal damage, his spleen was probably ruptured. Now, how long to the nearest hospital?"

 

Another time, a female PC kicked a guy in the nuts and he doubled over.

 

A third occasion, a gunshot wound to HL13 penetrated the lower abdomen and the target dropped not-so-quietly down to bleed profusely.

 

The issue with HL13 is how you describe the results as a GM more than any game mechanic - that part of it is currently abstract enough to cover both the contingency of being a "low blow" or a hit to the vitals, either if those vitals are per the HL chart or defined as the heart or arteries.

 

It is up to the GM and players to handle the Hero system in a mature and reasonable way. As ever.

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: "revised" hit location chart?

 

I find nothing wrong with 13 being a groin shot. As pointed out earlier in this thread, both males and females have some of their most sensitive nerve-endings in that region, so from that perseptive the xSTUN for the Hit Location makes sense.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "revised" hit location chart?

 

OK' date=' everyone line up: we need to do an experiment...[/quote']

 

 

Oh no you don't, Sean!

 

 

 

Fool me twice.....

 

 

EDIT:

 

And Marcus, I don't have a problem with the fact of a blow to the groin. Far from it. We all know it happens. The only reason I'm trying to map the hit locations such that the groin is not its own unique location is because of the game-interrupting joke sessions that such things typical erupt into. That's all.

[torchwolf]

Re: "revised" hit location chart?

 

[straight-faced GM:] "...apart from the obvious reproduction organs located in this area, there are the liver, spleen, major arteries, etc that can make the time until your arrival in the hospital determine if your character lives." [/straight-faced GM]

 

If the PS:Straight-faced GM Roll fails, however, those things will never stop. Allow every game session +10-20% time for pretzels and time-outs.

[JmOz]

Re: "revised" hit location chart?

 

As you brought up earlier in your post, there are several vital organs in Hit Location 13 apart from the groin area, even when defined as covered by Sectional Defenses.

 

Personally, the first time this situation came up I GMed that "Don't be absurd - judging from that kind of lethal damage, his spleen was probably ruptured. Now, how long to the nearest hospital?"

 

Another time, a female PC kicked a guy in the nuts and he doubled over.

 

A third occasion, a gunshot wound to HL13 penetrated the lower abdomen and the target dropped not-so-quietly down to bleed profusely.

 

The issue with HL13 is how you describe the results as a GM more than any game mechanic - that part of it is currently abstract enough to cover both the contingency of being a "low blow" or a hit to the vitals, either if those vitals are per the HL chart or defined as the heart or arteries.

 

It is up to the GM and players to handle the Hero system in a mature and reasonable way. As ever.

 

You said what I was trying to say so much better than I did, have a hit of rep