Ninja-Bear Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points the dragon would have another layer of scales beneath that do not provide armor just skin. note that if the dragon lost it's gold scales they are difficult to replace in that the dragon would need to consume gold to grow them back Ok, as to the scales, that is what I ws thinking, and that is a cool idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points It should not have to be the GMs job to police the players limitations Again curious, what do you mean by policing powers? Do you mean during character creation? Because in my experience that depends on the players themselves. A newbie may take a disadvantge or limitation and not think of the effects it will have during play. An example a person I knew made (incidently) an dragon character, but took the 25 pt disadvantage where he was feared and loathed. We instantly attacked him thinking he was a monster! Or do you mean during game play? I think it is sugested that a character with a focus should be deprieved of it once every 4 game sessions. Here are some ways which I had complictions from the focus. I have a character named Bullseye who has power armor. And Ive been caught in battle without my armor on. Now as much as I didn't like it, I new that I has to take time to get the armor on, because that was the price I had to pay for taking the limitation. Also I have a Martial Artist named shield who has a shield listed as oif. When I tried to sneak in a villians reactor, I was spotted through the costume because I couldn't hide the shield. Again I paid for having that limitation. Anyways, just looking for looking for clairification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I don't have a lot of time right now I'll just bitch that every character has hunted but the GM wants to run a scenario of his own design so the hunted most likely are ignored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Does the dragon really need a megahex of space (1000km) to fly? Because that would be worth at lot more than -1/2. I'm guessing you meant "Radius 1 Area" - a hex and all the hexes around it. Also, what does "swimming + freeaction" in the Multipower mean? I agree on the "12' long dragon" disadvantage being worth the full 20, but I'm not sure that "gold scales" merit a second Distinctive Feature beyond already being a dragon. It is easier to identify - which only matters if there are other dragons in the setting - but at least they shouldn't have the "extreme reaction" component, unless somehow people react more extremely to a gold-scaled dragon than to other dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Does the dragon really need a megahex of space (1000km) to fly? Because that would be worth at lot more than -1/2. I'm guessing you meant "Radius 1 Area" - a hex and all the hexes around it. Also, what does "swimming + freeaction" in the Multipower mean? I agree on the "12' long dragon" disadvantage being worth the full 20, but I'm not sure that "gold scales" merit a second Distinctive Feature beyond already being a dragon. It is easier to identify - which only matters if there are other dragons in the setting - but at least they shouldn't have the "extreme reaction" component, unless somehow people react more extremely to a gold-scaled dragon than to other dragons. I think the "swimming + freeaction" is supposed to be Environmental Movement: Underwater. Perhaps instead it should just by the appropriate environmental movement, and get a -1/4 Not Usable Underwater on the whole breath weapon multipower, bringing it from 75 to only 60 real points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I think the "swimming + freeaction" is supposed to be Environmental Movement: Underwater. Perhaps instead it should just by the appropriate environmental movement, and get a -1/4 Not Usable Underwater on the whole breath weapon multipower, bringing it from 75 to only 60 real points. Thank You Arkham I couldn't find free action in the book and I may use that limitation on the multi-power Does the dragon really need a megahex of space (1000km) to fly? Because that would be worth at lot more than -1/2. I'm guessing you meant "Radius 1 Area" - a hex and all the hexes around it. Also, what does "swimming + freeaction" in the Multipower mean? well, a mega- is 10^6 so a megahex would be 2000 km but yes, you are correct, I mean the 2 hexes the dragon is in and all the hexes around him. This does not mean that a hero standing next will prevent him from flying. I agree on the "12' long dragon" disadvantage being worth the full 20' date=' but I'm not sure that "gold scales" merit a second Distinctive Feature beyond already being a dragon. It is easier to identify - which only matters if there are other dragons in the setting - but at least they shouldn't have the "extreme reaction" component, unless somehow people react [i']more[/i] extremely to a gold-scaled dragon than to other dragons. The gold scales are an 18 karat(75%) gold alloy and weighs 5600 kg so the dragons armor 4200 kg of gold. The price of gold is $36,500 per kilogram. The armor's value in gold alone is $153, 300 ,000 But Sunset hoards gold and is not going on spend any of it. I may buy some wealth though. I am leery about having 40 pts in distinctive features to be honest. I may cut it to 30. 15/15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Update Sunset (A Gold Scaled Dragon) VAL CHA Cost Notes 3 50 STR 40 23 DEX 39 23 CON 26 13 BODY 6 13 INT 3 11 EGO 2 25 PRE 15 14 COM 2 133 30(12)PD 8 12 Armor OIF 15- Gold Scales difficult to replace 30(12)ED 13 12 Armor OIF 15- Gold Scales difficult to replace 6 KBR 6 3 levels permanent growth + Gold Scale OIF 160 4 SPD 7 15 REC 46 END 50 STUN 167 15 Flight 10 swimming 8 CHA Cost: 175 Cost POWERS 25 Gold Scale Armor OIF difficult to replace (21) 12/12 Armor 15- (4) 3 points knockback resist 5 Extra-Limbs neck wings tail back claw 15 30 POINT EC DRAGON 15 4 Hex Stretching no end (wings and tail) 10 15'' Flight (requires a megahex of space -1/2) 15 2d6 HKA 5 Points Life Support Water Breathing 4 Environmental movement under water 11 Mind Link to Anyone base 15 up to 4 targets -1/2 O DCV concentration to establish -3/4 extra-time one minute to turn on (25 -1.25=11 real cost) 60 MULTIPOWER (-1/4 not under water) 6u 12d6 Energy Bolt Fire 1/2 endurance 4u 10d6 explosion cone no range 22 Statts175 Armor 25 Limbs 5 Link 11 water 9 EC 55 MP 70 350 Value DISADVANTAGES 20 Distinctive features Dragon always notice extreme reaction 20 Distinctive features Gold Scales always notice extreme reaction 20 Phys Lim 12 long dragon, 800 kg, all the time, greatly impairing 10 Phys Lim -2 DCV 5 Must Eat Great Amounts 10 Psychological limitation: hoards gold 10 Psychological limitation: superiority complex 10 Distrust Wizards (he had been enslaved by one) 20 Hunted by treasure seekers for scales 15 Hunted by Wizards for dragon parts or to control 20 X2 stun and body from find weakness I lowered his strength to 50 to make room for other bricks to be stronger than him. The game has a 12d6 limit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I agree on the "12' long dragon" disadvantage being worth the full 20, but I'm not sure that "gold scales" merit a second Distinctive Feature beyond already being a dragon. It is easier to identify - which only matters if there are other dragons in the setting - but at least they shouldn't have the "extreme reaction" component, unless somehow people react more extremely to a gold-scaled dragon than to other dragons. Well since he is defining the scales as oif, I think alot of greedy people would like to get their hands on the scales. You know I would even give a hunted also to the dragon, not quite sure what to name it though. tHe hunted would be people gold crazy. I'm thinking that as a side effect during battle some of the scales might be lost? Not enough to warrent a loss of the actual armor, and people who see the dragon coming might be anticipating of looking for the scales during the battle! Which reminds me, did you buy a lair of some sort? To keep those pesky goldhunters out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Err, maybe it's just Persistent, not Inherent that it mentions. By RAW large characters should not be built with Growth, but by making a Large Character. You simply buy the appropriate Char and Powers to represent being Large (there's even a size chart) and the appropriate Disads. Growth has the disadvantages factored into the price of the benefits, you still get full Disads for the character on top of that, and you got it for even cheaper than normal by putting it in an EC. P.S. What edition are you playing that Inherent didn't even exist yet? One problem though with the fifth ed way is that if you aren't careful, you may forget to give the character the limitations of growth when designing the character. (i have a friend who had this happen to.) Now I know that that is a error on the GM, but by buying it the way that 4th did, there is not that concern. Plus, 4th ed way is easier than 5th. (Just saying) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Two words: Size Chart. It list the negatives as well as the positive. If someone can look at that, write down the good, skip the bad, then say they forgot, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Ops Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Two words: Size Chart. It list the negatives as well as the positive. If someone can look at that' date=' write down the good, skip the bad, then say they forgot, well...[/quote'] Is that chart available elsewhere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Two words: Size Chart. It list the negatives as well as the positive. If someone can look at that' date=' write down the good, skip the bad, then say they forgot, well...[/quote'] Two words: Still annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I have yet to build a neutralizer, suppress, drain or transfer of shrinking, growth, density, stretching or clinging. Inherent is a waste of points. As far as a lair goes for the dragon I imagine he has a cave underwater but I haven't paid any points for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I have yet to build a neutralizer, suppress, drain or transfer of shrinking, growth, density, stretching or clinging. Inherent is a waste of points. As far as a lair goes for the dragon I imagine he has a cave underwater but I haven't paid any points for one. I agree with you about inherent. (Boy was there alot said on that thread!) It has been said the reverse of the hero axiom of limitations also holds true. It goes somethig like this; If an advantage is paid for and it nevers come to use then it really isn't an advantage; therefore it shouldn't cost any points." And now I'm going to flying dodge outta here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points well the GM vetoed the second distinctive features "Gold Scales" as his gaming world is more four color and most people would not consider skinning the dragon. He did like the hunted by treasure seekers. But it turns out I only need 100 points of disadvantages so... Value DISADVANTAGES 20 Distinctive features Dragon always notice extreme reaction 15 Phys Lim 12 long dragon, 800 kg, 10 Phys Lim -2 DCV 10 Psychological limitation: hoards treasure 10 Psychological limitation: superiority complex 5 Distrust Wizards (he had been enslaved by one) 20 Hunted by treasure seekers for scales 20 X2 stun and body from find weakness that's 110 points of disadvantages but that's as low as I want to go with this character The GM also thought that mind link was an appropriate power for the dragon elemental but required that I pay endurance for elemental slots and allowed me to pay endurance only to initiate each mind link -1/4. When playing the mind link I treated the minute establishment fairly casually so I'm dropping the concentration limitation from 0 DCV to 1/2 DCV. I'm also added 5 more points to the mind link to fit the 30 point elemental doubling the number of minds I can be linked to from 4 to 8. The mind link now costs 7 Mind Link to Anyone base 15 up to 8 targets -1/4 (1/2 DCV) concentration to establish -3/4 extra-time one minute to turn on -1/4 cost endurance to establish (30 - 15 for the elemental power structure = 15 - 5/4 limitations = 7) The mind link cost 11 points before I placed it in the elemental control. so I now have 4 points to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I've noticed that you have the extreme reaction. Hopefully he won't be so evil with it as I told you our group was! Anyways kudos for having a unique character. Also In Fantasy Hero supplement II for 4th ed. they had a Dragon School of magic. It might give you some ideas to think about down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Just came to me. How about instead of oif, a limited form of ablative? Maybe make half of it ablative, so you lose some protection, but not all ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Or really thinking outside the box, give him a force wall, make it 0 end and persistant. Which is his GOLD scales and if and when it breaks, that is just the outer layer of scales. Special Effect wise, a dragon has the ability to before battle to reinforce his scales by growing extra scales. And what ever is his base color is enhanced with the new scales. I.e. asilver dragon would have a brillant silver coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Is that chart available elsewhere ? On pg. 576 in Fifth ed rev. is the Size/Weight Physical limitation and on the next page is the Mass Templates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points On pg. 576 in Fifth ed rev. is the Size/Weight Physical limitation and on the next page is the Mass Templates. I've made the armor ablative when body gets past it's defense 19 Gold Scale Armor OIF difficult to replace ablative to with body through -1/2 (16) 12/12 Armor 15- (36-5/4=36*4/9=16) (3) 3 points knockback resist that's six points down from 25 Sunset now has 10 points left to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Update Sunset (A Gold Scaled Dragon) VAL CHA Cost Notes 3 50 STR 40 23 DEX 39 23 CON 26 13 BODY 6 13 INT 3 11 EGO 2 25 PRE 15 14 COM 2 133 30(12)PD 8 12 Armor OIF 15- Gold Scales difficult to replace 30(12)ED 13 12 Armor OIF 15- Gold Scales difficult to replace 6 KBR 6 3 levels permanent growth + Gold Scale OIF 160 4 SPD 7 15 REC 46 END 50 STUN 167 15 Flight 10 swimming 8 CHA Cost: 175 Cost POWERS 19 Gold Scale Armor OIF difficult to replace, ablative with body through -1/2 (16) 12/12 Armor 15- (36-5/4=36*4/9=16) (3) 3 points knockback resist 5 Extra-Limbs neck wings tail back claw 15 30 POINT EC DRAGON 15 4 Hex Stretching no end (wings and tail) 10 15'' Flight (requires a megahex of space -1/2) 15 2d6 HKA 7 Mind Link to Anyone base 15 up to 8 targets -1/4 (1/2 DCV) concentration to establish -3/4 extra-time one minute to turn on -1/4 cost endurance to establish (30 - 15 for the elemental power structure = 15 - 5/4 limitations = 7) 5 Points Life Support Water Breathing 4 Environmental movement under water 11 Mind Link to Anyone base 15 up to 4 targets -1/2 O DCV concentration to establish -3/4 extra-time one minute to turn on (25 -1.25=11 real cost) 60 MULTIPOWER (-1/4 not under water) 6u 12d6 Energy Bolt Fire 1/2 endurance 4u 10d6 explosion cone no range 23 Statts175 Armor 19 Limbs 5 water 9 EC 62 MP 70 340 Value DISADVANTAGES 20 Distinctive features Dragon always notice extreme reaction 15 Phys Lim 12 long dragon, 800 kg, 10 Phys Lim -2 DCV 10 Psychological limitation: hoards treasure 10 Psychological limitation: superiority complex 5 Distrust Wizards (he had been enslaved by one) 20 Hunted by treasure seekers for scales 20 X2 stun and body from find weakness I lowered his strength to 50 to make room for other bricks to be stronger than him. The game has a 12d6 limit. I've made the armor ablative when body gets past it's defense that's six points down from 25.' Sunset now has 10 points left to spend any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Update I lowered his strength to 50 to make room for other bricks to be stronger than him. The game has a 12d6 limit. I've made the armor ablative when body gets past it's defense that's six points down from 25.' Sunset now has 10 points left to spend any ideas? It would be easy to give him 10 points of Mental Defense as an 'Ancient and Inscrutable Mind', or 10 points of Power Defense from being an 'Ancient Magical Creature', or 5 points in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I agree both those powers make sense for the character drain and ego powers aren't common enough in the games I play in. though this is a new GM Buying Ego might be better than buying Ego defense. Ego would protect versus every mental power but ego blast in three ways: ECV, higher base ego for determined effects, and increased ego break-out roll. (note: in my game intelligence determines the base that telepathy and mental illusion are measured against. ) I have been worried about that drain dragon power. not really. Buying regeneration would protect against long term drains and transforms and damage in General. I believe there is a healer in the party so maybe not. I've been having nightmares about being stripped of my armor and am considering just buying more body I heard regeneration got strange in 5th. I'm not too worried about ego bolts, that's just another NND I'm not immune to. On that thought, I may buy life support (noxious gasses) I was also considering another point of speed as I am the slowest in the party with one at 5 speed, two at 6 speed and another and 10 speed. I don't want to fall asleep waiting for my turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points I was also considering another point of speed as I am the slowest in the party with one at 5 speed, two at 6 speed and another and 10 speed. I don't want to fall asleep waiting for my turn. How about then +1 speed which costs end ? You could call it Burst of Furry. That way, aleast in the beggining of the battle, you won't be the last one. Have youthought of a winfd type power from your wings ? Oh and I got to say that I feel privillaged that you actually used some of my ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points perhaps, a 30 strength telekinesis explosion only to pull towards the dragon or push away from the dragon depending on wind currents produced. that would fit nicely in the multi-power Sunset opens his wings and the resulting air pocket sucks the villains to his claws . GET OVER HERE I'd probably get increased endurance cost as I would not use that power often. I could also go with the 4d6 x4 Knockback (+1.5) Explosion (+0.5) Indirect (+0.5) Self Immune (+0.25) (20 base + 2.75(+275%) =75) ..where Indirect would be determined by the flow of the air current Sunset when draws his wings back or brings them down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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