How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

[Sidetrack]

So, I'm building sort of a character (6e) with anti-metal elemental powers and I'd like him to be able to become completely desolid to metal.

 

This includes swords, bullets and passing through metal walls (providing they are completely metal and don't have say: a coat of paint on the side the character is on). Otherwise, he should be able to affect and be affected by everything else.

 

The closest I've been able to get is:

 

16 Desolidification (affected by Everything but Metal) (40 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Metal Attacks (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

 

23 Naked Advantage: Affects Physical World (+2) for up to 20 Active Points of Physical Stats (STR, PD, ED) (40 Active Points); Does not affect Metal, Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

 

That's as by-the-book as I can make it, but obviously it doesn't quite cut it. By my reckoning it covers almost everything but passing through metal objects and the limited power disadvantage feels pretty nebulous (like most of the other powers I've built for this one).

 

Any suggestions to get me closer to my objective without getting too hand wavy or god awful expensive? Do the Concentration Disads work alright as I have them.?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I'm not quite sure why, when you limited the desolidification, you made it specifically against metal attacks instead of just against metal in general. You seem to be asking how to add a small aspect of desolid to metal when you specifically wished it away in that limitation....

 

I think I would have made the limitation 'Only versus metal (-1)'.

[Rapier]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

FYI, unless things have changed in 6E you don't need to purchase Affects Physical World if using a Limited form of Desol.

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I'm not quite sure why, when you limited the desolidification, you made it specifically against metal attacks instead of just against metal in general. You seem to be asking how to add a small aspect of desolid to metal when you specifically wished it away in that limitation....

 

I think I would have made the limitation 'Only versus metal (-1)'.

 

Only To Protect Against [Limited Type Of Attack] (-1) was the only thing specifically mentioned in 6E1. I was guessing that a more liberal disadvantage would be worth less, but was hoping there was maybe something from The Ultimate Metamorph that laid things out a little clearer

 

FYI' date=' unless things have changed in 6E you don't need to purchase Affects Physical World if using a Limited form of Desol.[/quote']

 

Normally, because the character is still technically

solid and able to interact with the solid world

freely, he must buy Affects Physical World for his

STR and all Powers that can affect physical objects

(unless the GM gives permission otherwise). This

makes Desolidification a very expensive form of

defense. However, at the GM’s option, a character

with a limited form of Desolidification doesn’t

have to buy Affects Physical World; he can touch

and affect the solid world automatically.

Don't figure on getting too much flak for it, but didn't want to have to start refiguring too much from scratch if I did.

 

If something like this will work, then great:

 

20 Desolidification (affected by Everything but Metal) (40 Active Points); Only vs Metal (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

 

Seems pretty cheap for immunity to bullets and blades, and the ability to move through metal.

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I'm not quite sure why, when you limited the desolidification, you made it specifically against metal attacks instead of just against metal in general. You seem to be asking how to add a small aspect of desolid to metal when you specifically wished it away in that limitation....

 

I think I would have made the limitation 'Only versus metal (-1)'.

 

I was going with a listed disadvantage 'Only To Protect Against [Limited Type Of Attack] (-1)'

 

FYI' date=' unless things have changed in 6E you don't need to purchase Affects Physical World if using a Limited form of Desol.[/quote']

 

I believe that's a GM discretion item...

 

If I were to go with:

 

27 Desolidification (affected by Everything but Metal) (40 Active Points); Only vs Metal (-1/2)

 

the near immunity it offers seems to beat out similarly disadvantaged Resistant Protection, Damage Negation or Phys Dam Resistance on price and gives you the ability to pass through walls to boot. Seems too cheap.

 

Does The Ultimate Metamorph have any info on Limited Desol?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

Err, most walls aren't metal, so passing through walls wouldn't generally be an option. Might be handy if you get put in a cell with metal bars, but other than that I'm not seeing the ability to pass through metal allowing you to take a lot of shortcuts. Also, not sure how it qualifies as "near immunity". Granted, bullets and knives are two of the most common types of Physical attacks, but if this is a Super game you'll still take damage from super strong fists, clubs, and other assorted non-metal PD attacks, not to mention all Energy attacks. Honestly I don't really see this as over powered. If I were you I'd check with the GM, showing him the version without the Naked Advantage first and seeing if he'll accept it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I strongly dislike using Desolid for 'immunity' The reasons are simply too numerous - and too well rehearsed to go into here, but can I suggest:

 

Desolid (Only to metal -1) 20 points PLUS

3/4 physical damage reduction (Only v metal -1) 30 points

 

Not horribly cheap and not complete immunity but it DOES mean you can ignore having to buy 'Affects Physical World', generally metal based attacks will do very little damage and if you tune your fields to completely ignore metal you are pretty much completely unaffected by it (i.e when you have Desolid on - and when it is on you can also walk through metal objects).

 

Coupled with normal level defences, metal based attacks will likely only cause a couple of points of stun through defences - enough to effectively ignore.

 

You could use 12 DC of physical damage negation (only v metal) instead of the damage reduction if you want. Again, coupled with normal level defences that should make you functionally immune to attacks by metal objects.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

Err' date=' most walls aren't metal, so passing through walls wouldn't generally be an option. Might be handy if you get put in a cell with metal bars, but other than that I'm not seeing the ability to pass through metal allowing you to take a lot of shortcuts. Also, not sure how it qualifies as "near immunity". Granted, bullets and knives are two of the most common types of Physical attacks, but if this is a Super game you'll still take damage from super strong fists, clubs, and other assorted non-metal PD attacks, not to mention all Energy attacks. Honestly I don't really see this as over powered. If I were you I'd check with the GM, showing him the version [i']without[/i] the Naked Advantage first and seeing if he'll accept it.

 

 

Most vehicles are metal and, whilst most normal buildings do not ahve metal walls, a lot of super bases might, and then there's bank vault doors and...well - you get the idea...I'd say you'd get utility from Desolid to metal as a 'move through things' power. As you say a lot of 'real' attacks are metal - but most super attaacks are not. -1 seems fair.

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

Err' date=' most walls aren't metal, so passing through walls wouldn't generally be an option. Might be handy if you get put in a cell with metal bars, but other than that I'm not seeing the ability to pass through metal allowing you to take a lot of shortcuts. Also, not sure how it qualifies as "near immunity". Granted, bullets and knives are two of the most common types of Physical attacks, but if this is a Super game you'll still take damage from super strong fists, clubs, and other assorted non-metal PD attacks, not to mention all Energy attacks. Honestly I don't really see this as over powered. If I were you I'd check with the GM, showing him the version [i']without[/i] the Naked Advantage first and seeing if he'll accept it.

 

I meant near immunity to metal based attacks meaning they'd need Affects Desolidied to touch you. Not horribly over powered to my thinking either, but mimicking it with Damage Negation I'd spend the same amount of points for 75% of the effect (still get clobbered if someone threw a bulldozer) and not receive the added benefits.

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I strongly dislike using Desolid for 'immunity' The reasons are simply too numerous - and too well rehearsed to go into here, but can I suggest:

 

Desolid (Only to metal -1) 20 points PLUS

3/4 physical damage reduction (Only v metal -1) 30 points

 

 

I think I've settled on this:

 

Desolid to Metal 38pts

Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75%; SFX Desolid, Only vs Metal (-1), Nonpersistent (-1/4)

PLUS Desolidification , Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Only to Metal (-1), jointly Linked (-1/2)

Cheaper than full Desolid, more expensive than Damage Reduction and the advantages/limitations seem to balance out.

 

Thanks Sean!

[Duke Bushido]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

As is fairly common, I also found Sean's build simple and effective.

 

I'd like to mention, though, that this:

 

 

Desolidification , Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Only to Metal (-1),

 

As you have it written means that a metal weapon will both pass right through you but still deliver its damage. Certainly your Damage Reduction will help there, but is that the effect you were going for?

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

As you have it written means that a metal weapon will both pass right through you but still deliver its damage. Certainly your Damage Reduction will help there, but is that the effect you were going for?

 

That was the idea, using the desolidification itself for damage immunity would seem to open things up for a lot of interpretation from the GM, whereas the Damage Reduction is more straightforward. Hopefully a less objectionable way to build it.

 

My next question is: Do this characters attacks now ignore metallic defenses? What if I have a HKA OAF (katana)... could I slice through Wolverine's arm without hitting the metallic skeleton... or punch someone inside their metal armor?

I'm guessing not. Would something like this simulate the ability?

 

Naked advantage, AVAD non-metallic PD (+1/2), Does Body (+1), Linked (Desolid to Metal; -1/2)

[Duke Bushido]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

 

My next question is: Do this characters attacks now ignore metallic defenses?

 

No; I'm afraid not. You're GM is going to go one of two ways with this:

 

1) Straight Desolid rules from the book: when you are Desolid, your attacks affect _nothing_ except other Desolid characters and items. You will need to add "Affects Solid / Affects "Real World" to be able to affect non-desolid characters.

 

Now for a tightly-limited Desolid like you've built, most GMs I know aren't going to by that sticky with it. They will likely go with option 2:

 

2) No; your attacks will not be able to discount metalic defenses. The _character_ has the special "immunity via Desolid," and not the powers.

 

Actually, option 2 holds in either case.

 

Naked advantage' date=' AVAD non-metallic PD (+1/2), Does Body (+1), Linked (Desolid to Metal; -1/2)[/quote']

 

I am afraid I can't answer that for you; I am not familiar enough with the current incarnation of AVLD ? AVAD

[Ice9]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

I think Only vs Metal might be worth substantially more than a -1 limitation. Let's look at how much it limits the power.

Desolidification provides two things - walking through walls, and immunity to attacks. The immunity to attacks is generally considered stronger in point terms, so let's call that 2/3 of the cost. Therefore:

 

Walking Through Things Limitation:

Since even a coat of paint prevents passage, we're talking about extremely limited circumstances where it would work. Maybe 10% of the time.

 

Avoiding Attacks Limitation:

How many attacks are entirely metal? Well right off that bat, we can eliminate energy, chemical, and unarmed attacks. Most physical weapon attacks would be metal, but there are wooden and polymer weapons.

Depending on the Genre:

Champions - Maybe 25% of the time.

Realistic Modern Day - Up to 75%

Fantasy - 50%

Futuristic - 25%, maybe much less, as polymers would be likely to replace/augment metal even in non-energy weapons.

 

Now combining those, we get:

Champions/Future: -4 Limitation

Realistic Modern: -1 Limitation

Fantasy: -2 Limitation

[Sidetrack]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

Walking Through Things Limitation:

Since even a coat of paint prevents passage, we're talking about extremely limited circumstances where it would work. Maybe 10% of the time.

 

As defined the paint thing would be most likely defeatable given time. A coat of paint on the other side of the metal surface could likely be defeated by casual strength with a Move-Through. Interior paint couldn't be pushed into the metal but could be removed if a gap could be created big enough to get a finger through into the metal.

 

I agree that the limitation value is pretty genre/campaign subjective. It'd be a pretty powerful Pulp Hero ability.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: How to Build: Desolidification Only vs Metal

 

Just to toss it out there, a lot of paints are actually tinted with various metals and metal oxides.

 

That might help.