How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

[Nyrath]

http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/12/jacob-innovations-designs-first-class.html

 

For early pre-Trek technology, habitable volume in a spacecraft will always be very limited. So you have to be efficient to cram in all your crew members. Especially on a troopship or something like that.

 

The link shows a design for a passenger airliner, but the principle remains the same.

 

For post-Trek technology, the habitable volume of your ships will be like a blasted five-star hotel, so you can ignore all this.

[L. Marcus]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Mmmm ... Efficiency ...

[tkdguy]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Since the settlers in my campaign have to rough it intheir colonies anyway, it makes sense that the trip over there wouldn't be too luxurious.

[L. Marcus]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Steerage accommodations -- sleeping bags on a rack in some cargo containers with life support.

[Doc]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

In the Polaris universe setting, people travelling by submarines (Polaris is an underwater universe, so it is very similar in most ways to a space travel setting...) packed in "sarcophaguses" all the way long (rich people get their luxuous yacht and cruise subs and all). I think it also existed in the Shadowrun universe.

 

I heard once that such kind of "arrangements" already existed in Japan, but couldn't find any evidence of it.

[Nyrath]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Of course even worse is another Japanese innovation, the so called "capsule motel."

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ag.html#bunk

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

for long range colony ships etc... theres always cryogenic low berths or similar accomodations

 

then theres the warped idea that the future version of the capsule motel berth is exactly the diameter to fit in a missile tube

it would give the term "Forced Eviction" a new meaning

[Nyrath]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

then theres the warped idea that the future version of the capsule motel berth is exactly the diameter to fit in a missile tube

it would give the term "Forced Eviction" a new meaning

Heh, cute.

Of course, they also would fit into a missile sized lifeboat

[DusterBoy]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

I think it would be like being on board a sub or military vessel: space is at a premium, everybody is living practically on top of one another, little if any privacy. You'd have your own bunk (if you weren't hot-bunking with someone else) and locker for your personal kit, but given the finite amount of fuel a starship could carry (assuming a rocket), there would be strict restrictions on how much you could bring with you. There's just no way everyone would ahve their own en-suite bedroom.

 

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/g/david-gerrold/world-of-star-trek.htm may be of interest, especially the part where he is casting a (very) critical eye over the flaws in Star Trek.

[Doc]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Heh, cute.

Of course, they also would fit into a missile sized lifeboat

 

for long range colony ships etc... theres always cryogenic low berths or similar accomodations

 

then theres the warped idea that the future version of the capsule motel berth is exactly the diameter to fit in a missile tube

it would give the term "Forced Eviction" a new meaning

 

Hey, cool. And why having missile size space ships as a norm? People make their travel under cryogenization, anyway; a missile size ship would require much less energy to send somewhere and pretty much less ressources to build.

 

Of course, this kind of ship would necessitate very small energy sources to maintain the life support systems. Moreover, they'd have to be far more durable, as nobody could recharge/maintain the energy source (the only passenger being unconscious). Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator can have up to 30 or 40 years of life span, but their energy output decrease with time.

Edit: Arggg... I just remembered some B movie in wich a naked female space vampire arrived on Earth in such a device... And I thought I was a genius...

[tkdguy]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

In my campaign, it takes months, even years for colonists to travel to the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. Traveling this way will get really uncomfortable.

[keithcurtis]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

It looks like two across instead of three across, plus room for a complete set of stairs in between each row. Looks like less density by far, to me. The "Economy Seating With Even Rows Raised" looks like a possibly more workable idea.

 

Keith "always forgets how much he hates air travel until after he gets on the plane" Curtis

[L. Marcus]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

... Keith channels C-3PO?

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

years ago on a visit to NASA Goddard, we got to sit inside a training capsule, dont remember which one it was, mercury or gemini i would think, but it was tiny, it was kinda like sitting in the front seat of a Lamborgini, we were in street clothes and it was way too cramped....

[L. Marcus]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

One- or two-seater? Gemini was the two-seater.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Two

[Kristopher]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

It looks like two across instead of three across, plus room for a complete set of stairs in between each row. Looks like less density by far, to me. The "Economy Seating With Even Rows Raised" looks like a possibly more workable idea.

 

Keith "always forgets how much he hates air travel until after he gets on the plane" Curtis

 

I've flown once.

 

I will never, ever fly again. Never.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

I have flown 4 round trips, none of which went well for various reasons, I wont fly again if I have a choice. I also worked as a security screener in the late eighties.... never found a bomb or anything, although there was incident at an area airport involving a naive etc security screener who had no idea what a vibrator was, and asked the passenger about in front of about 300 people

[Nyrath]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Hey' date=' cool. And why having missile size space ships as a norm? People make their travel under cryogenization, anyway; a missile size ship would require much less energy to send somewhere and pretty much less ressources to build.[/font']

A larger ship can take advantage of the economy of scale. Often a life support system for ten is smaller and cheaper than 10 life support systems for one.

There is also the "minimum gauge" problem. Certain pieces of equipment can only be miniaturized so far. So if the smallest life support system you can make is rated for 2.5 people, you are wasting 1.5 persons worth of support.

 

 

 

Of course' date=' this kind of ship would necessitate very small energy sources to maintain the life support systems. Moreover, they'd have to be far more durable, as nobody could recharge/maintain the energy source (the only passenger being unconscious). [/font'] Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator can have up to 30 or 40 years of life span, but their energy output decrease with time.

Unfortunatelyh there are engineering reasons that make it impractical to design an individual RTG that produces more than one kilowatt. You'd need banks of the blasted things.

Plutonium-238 has a half life of 85 years, i.e., the power output will drop to one half after 85 years. So a max 1 kilowatt RTG would only produce 500 watts after 85 years. Actually a little less since the thermocouples deteriorate in the radiation.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3e.html#rtg

A small fission reactor might be better, but they suffer from the minimum gauge problem. You need a certain size to achieve critical mass.

 

 

Edit: Arggg... I just remembered some B movie in wich a naked female space vampire arrived on Earth in such a device... And I thought I was a genius...

Not really. You are a genius. The movie you are thinking about is Lifeforce, in which energy vampire Mathilda May spends most of the movie wandering around nude while ripping the lifeforce out of any poor moron who thinks with his glands instead of his cerebrum and thus allows himself to get withing touching distance.

 

However, she is discovered by astronauts in a freaking huge alien spacecraft. She is in an individual suspended animation pod that resembles a huge quartz crystal, but the pod is not an individual spacecraft.

[tkdguy]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

I've flown once.

 

I will never, ever fly again. Never.

 

After my experiences both ways last year, I only plan to fly first class from now on. Of course, that means I won't be flying anytime soon, since I can't afford it.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

I have flown 4 round trips' date=' none of which went well for various reasons, I wont fly again if I have a choice. I also worked as a security screener in the late eighties.... never found a bomb or anything, although there was incident at an area airport involving a naive etc security screener who had no idea what a vibrator was, and asked the passenger about in front of about 300 people[/quote']

 

"Nine times out of ten it's an electric razor, but every once in a while...

[whispering]

it's a dildo. Of course it's company policy never to, imply ownership in the event of a dildo... always use the indefinite article a dildo, never your dildo."

While I can't see coffin-cabins being economical on a single serving ship size, the missile-size point is particularily valuable due to them being ready made lifeboats, and the mil-spec versions would make a good basis for dropship payloads (orbital insertion pods), I'm thinking.

[Markdoc]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

I've flown once.

 

I will never, ever fly again. Never.

 

Wow. Flying is not one of my favourite things to do unless I'm in business, but for me, it's no biggie - I hop on a plane on average every 2-3 weeks, and regard it pretty much on par with hopping on a bus.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Not really. You are a genius. The movie you are thinking about is Lifeforce, in which energy vampire Mathilda May spends most of the movie wandering around nude while ripping the lifeforce out of any poor moron who thinks with his glands instead of his cerebrum and thus allows himself to get withing touching distance.

 

However, she is discovered by astronauts in a freaking huge alien spacecraft. She is in an individual suspended animation pod that resembles a huge quartz crystal, but the pod is not an individual spacecraft.

 

Didn't Superman arrive in such a craft?

 

cheers, Mark

[Doc]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Not really. You are a genius.

 

The movie you are thinking about is Lifeforce

 

Hey hey! Two good reasons to rep you!

[Kristopher]

Re: How to cram crew members into your spacecraft

 

Wow. Flying is not one of my favourite things to do unless I'm in business' date=' but for me, it's no biggie - I hop on a plane on average every 2-3 weeks, and regard it pretty much on par with hopping on a bus.[/quote']

 

1) I don't like being crammed with that many people that close together.

2) I don't like being stuck there for that long with no way to get out.

3) I'm not afraid of flying. I'm afraid of crashing.