09. How To Do – Auto-Defense – Especially NND Defense Costs

[MistWing]

This is a power concept that I want to surprise my GM with... Auto-Defenses. The idea is that I combine a computer, special senses (including ‘Future-Seeing’ for 1 phase), and a power pool for defenses. This would actually be a power and not a device (which it appears to be with the inclusion of a computer). The computer would automatically adjust the Power Pool to contain the proper defenses needed for that phase. By using a computer, it can be almost completely independent of me. My only control would be turning it on or off.

 

For most types of attacks, there would be no problems. The pool creates the appropriate defense power. Even ALVD powers can be dealt with, costing 1 or 2 points per point of defense gained. It’s the NND attacks I’m having a problem with. In some cases, it’s simply a new power (like Life Support) that can easily be added. But what about the other cases? Maybe the attack is a sonic attack and the defense is a set of ear-muffs. How many points should be allocated from the pool in such a case? How would I determine this type of cost?

 

I’m not sure how long the GM will allow me to have this power (I’m going to try to sneak it past her). But I figure that if I can use it in a fair manner, I will be able to keep it for some time.

 

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

[Killer Shrike]

Cosmic VPP only for Defenses and Danger Sense with Discriminatory and Analyze, affected by Radio group SFX: On board computer. Abort to switch in an appropriate defense.

[prestidigitator]

Re: 09. How To Do – Auto-Defense – Especially NND Defense Costs

 

Originally posted by MistWing

It’s the NND attacks I’m having a problem with. In some cases, it’s simply a new power (like Life Support) that can easily be added. But what about the other cases? Maybe the attack is a sonic attack and the defense is a set of ear-muffs. How many points should be allocated from the pool in such a case? How would I determine this type of cost?

How about just Dispel (or Suppress): Any NND attack, Trigger: NND attack used against me?

[Agent X]

Re: 09. How To Do – Auto-Defense – Especially NND Defense Costs

 

Originally posted by MistWing

This is a power concept that I want to surprise my GM with... Auto-Defenses. The idea is that I combine a computer, special senses (including ‘Future-Seeing’ for 1 phase), and a power pool for defenses. This would actually be a power and not a device (which it appears to be with the inclusion of a computer). The computer would automatically adjust the Power Pool to contain the proper defenses needed for that phase. By using a computer, it can be almost completely independent of me. My only control would be turning it on or off.

 

For most types of attacks, there would be no problems. The pool creates the appropriate defense power. Even ALVD powers can be dealt with, costing 1 or 2 points per point of defense gained. It’s the NND attacks I’m having a problem with. In some cases, it’s simply a new power (like Life Support) that can easily be added. But what about the other cases? Maybe the attack is a sonic attack and the defense is a set of ear-muffs. How many points should be allocated from the pool in such a case? How would I determine this type of cost?

 

I’m not sure how long the GM will allow me to have this power (I’m going to try to sneak it past her). But I figure that if I can use it in a fair manner, I will be able to keep it for some time.

 

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

Use Duplication and buy the computer as a comparmentalized part of your subconscious mind. Slap on a vpp usable simultaneously with your other self along with those senses you are talking about and you are good to go. It should be pretty expensive though. Of course, you wouldn't be buying your defenses up so high in your base form.

[zornwil]

How do you intend to keep this balanced in game-play so you're not too powerful? Just curious.

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by zornwil

How do you intend to keep this balanced in game-play so you're not too powerful? Just curious.

 

I'm curious as well.

 

This could be read as a really elaborate way to justify total immunity to everything by saying you are only immune to it just as it hits you.

 

Adaptive defences, the whole Borg/Sentinal power to become immune to attacks as you grow defences against what hurt you in the past is one thing, defences against everything before it hits you is something else.

[Talon]

You don't "sneak" powers past your GM. The construct sounds abusive to me, and should be banned.

 

If someone wanted to do this (and followed proper procedure by asking me before the game), I'd suggest buying all the defenses they wanted, with a limitation "not if precog fails / doesn't apply".

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Talon

You don't "sneak" powers past your GM. The construct sounds abusive to me, and should be banned.

 

If someone wanted to do this (and followed proper procedure by asking me before the game), I'd suggest buying all the defenses they wanted, with a limitation "not if precog fails / doesn't apply".

Or Danger Sense, or PER Roll, etc.

 

Good point on the sneaking Powers bit; I didnt really pay much attention to it myself, but your GM is your friend MistWing; if you get adversarial with him/her all you are really doing is screwing up the game for them and the other players and ultimately yourself.

[Dust Raven]

I would think that, since every Attack must have a Defense, that no character can have a Defense for everything. I know that having a Defense for every Attack is not the same as being completely invulnerable, but if there is one thing that HERO has thought me... there is always a way around a defense.

 

Of course, the GM could just fill the campaign with attacks that have IPE: Precog...

[Elysea]

The only saving grace is that once he aborts to configure an appropriate defense, he's locked into that defense until the next segment in which he can abort. So if Bad Guy #1 throws a massive Energy Blast, and the defense computer reacts by throwing everything it has into a force field, Bad Guy #2 can put launch a knock-out gas grenade at the hero's feet and the fight's pretty much over.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Jhamin

This could be read as a really elaborate way to justify total immunity to everything by saying you are only immune to it just as it hits you.

 

Adaptive defences, the whole Borg/Sentinal power to become immune to attacks as you grow defences against what hurt you in the past is one thing, defences against everything before it hits you is something else.

I disagree. Depending on the GM, plain Postcognition could be used in the same way (I'd like to see all the attacks used against me in the next combat). Remember that Postcognition is pretty expensive (I wouldn't really see any justification in placing any Limitations on it in this case).

 

However, the total immunity part of it is not true at all:

1. The VPP isn't going to be able to be huge, so (s)he probably won't be able to prevent all damage (just reduce it).
2. There will still be a choice to make. The defensive power still cannot be changed more often than once per Phase (of the Computer, or whatever).

This whole power construct is just like being able to Abort without losing the character's actual next Phases. In fact, you might forget the whole Computer/Duplicate idea, and just buy +X Spd, Only to Abort (-1/2), along with maybe Danger Sense (so that you aren't unaware of attacks). You might also need some kind of Discriminatory Enhanced Sense for attacks that have Invisible Power Effects (including Mental Powers if you are not a mentalist). Then you wouldn't even have to deal with Postcognition. It would probably be a lot cheaper.

[zornwil]

I'm just curious to hear from MistWing how he wants to really play it so it's not abusive. For now I'm willing to say it only "sounds" abusive lacking other info. As a couple of you have pointed out, though, good points re seg-limitations and the size of the pool (though it's not clear from the original post how large or small it will be).

[MistWing]

Thanks for all of the input. There are several good ideas I can use.

 

It's been asked how I intend not to abuse this power. The main way is that the defenses themselves won't be all that big (relatively speaking... we play a high-powered game to being with). The idea is to be invulnerable to NND attacks (since they're all-or-nothing) and have some resistance to AVLD attacks. Neither of these is all that common in the games. I just want to be prepared.

 

This is also the main area where I'm going to try to 'sneak' past the GM. Naturally, he'll see the power, but I'm hoping that he won't pay enough attension to the defenses against the NNDs and AVLDs.

 

It's been mentioned that I shouldn't try to 'sneak' past the GM. Normally, I would agree. However, in my group, this has kind-of grown to a secondary game. Normally, we hoard the experience points we earn and then, when we spend them, we try to surprise the GM. He actually encourages this. Once, Laura managed a good sneak and she was immediately awared an experience point for her efforts.

 

In my case, I have a golden opportunity. We tend not to balance characters via points. The points give us a starting point, but we actually build characters based on concept. If I need more points to do something that makes sense within my character concept, I get them. The concept is 'all important' and the GM is super-strict in that regards. My character is a Shape-Shifter with adequate defenses, a Transform attack, and an Entangle. My main 'power' is a rather large vpp that I can use to create a variety of powers, justified by my Shape Shifting. Over time, two things developed. 1: I tend to only use a few shapes (Dragon, Dolphin, Bird, Cat, and a few others); 2: I tend to use the vpp to counter the GM's 'traps' a bit too easily. So, he required me to redesign my character, using MultiForm for my main Shape Shifting and a much reduced vpp for more modest 'power-changes'. To compensate, he's allowing me to add a couple of new things (since I can't use the huge vpp any more). My intent is to numb him with the Ultimate Entangle and then 'sneak' the Auto-Defenses past him and surprise him when appropriate.

 

I hope this makes sense

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

[Agent X]

Originally posted by MistWing

Thanks for all of the input. There are several good ideas I can use.

 

It's been asked how I intend not to abuse this power. The main way is that the defenses themselves won't be all that big (relatively speaking... we play a high-powered game to being with). The idea is to be invulnerable to NND attacks (since they're all-or-nothing) and have some resistance to AVLD attacks. Neither of these is all that common in the games. I just want to be prepared.

 

This is also the main area where I'm going to try to 'sneak' past the GM. Naturally, he'll see the power, but I'm hoping that he won't pay enough attension to the defenses against the NNDs and AVLDs.

 

It's been mentioned that I shouldn't try to 'sneak' past the GM. Normally, I would agree. However, in my group, this has kind-of grown to a secondary game. Normally, we hoard the experience points we earn and then, when we spend them, we try to surprise the GM. He actually encourages this. Once, Laura managed a good sneak and she was immediately awared an experience point for her efforts.

 

In my case, I have a golden opportunity. We tend not to balance characters via points. The points give us a starting point, but we actually build characters based on concept. If I need more points to do something that makes sense within my character concept, I get them. The concept is 'all important' and the GM is super-strict in that regards. My character is a Shape-Shifter with adequate defenses, a Transform attack, and an Entangle. My main 'power' is a rather large vpp that I can use to create a variety of powers, justified by my Shape Shifting. Over time, two things developed. 1: I tend to only use a few shapes (Dragon, Dolphin, Bird, Cat, and a few others); 2: I tend to use the vpp to counter the GM's 'traps' a bit too easily. So, he required me to redesign my character, using MultiForm for my main Shape Shifting and a much reduced vpp for more modest 'power-changes'. To compensate, he's allowing me to add a couple of new things (since I can't use the huge vpp any more). My intent is to numb him with the Ultimate Entangle and then 'sneak' the Auto-Defenses past him and surprise him when appropriate.

 

I hope this makes sense

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

Makes sense to me. Some people find "competitive character construction" to be a mortal sin. It's not what I'm in to but I know some groups that do just that. For those groups, part of the fun is outwitting the ref and sometimes even other players by how their characters are built. Strangely, it doesn't seem to degenerate into nastiness in these groups like so many assume it would. Not my cup of tea but if it works for you...

[Farkling]

Heh...sounds like a variant on Shane Gooseman's bio-defenses from the old Galaxy Rangers.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by MistWing

The idea is to be invulnerable to NND attacks (since they're all-or-nothing) and have some resistance to AVLD attacks. Neither of these is all that common in the games. I just want to be prepared.

I guess this doesn't have the same kind of "surprise factor," but you might be able to buy a Dispel, Persistant Suppression, or something to that effect, that works against "all powers that ignore normal defenses." I might allow this as a GM based on the principle that defenses should be easier/less expensive than doing damage....