First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

[RexMundi]

 

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/comics/article/first-wave-1-review-97725

 

Saving my review for later in the thread. We'll start with the official one.

 

~Rex

[Yansuf]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Am I the only one who feels that putting this into modern times rather than between WWI and WWII is WRONG?

 

Doc Savage is a war hero? What war?

 

Etc.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

It's not modern times. In fact it's kind of a timeless fugue for the beginning. As for the War, take your Pick. Doc's got a history in World War 1. The whole setting of First Wave is unique and contained. It's running with the best of the pulp characters from the golden age, with a key theme. No Powers. Well no Kryptonians at least.

 

They've decided to make some changes in the retelling as well. When Doc and The Batman first Cross paths in the One Shot prequel, You have Young Bruce Wayne in his early 20's, and Doc, in his Mid to Late 30's. They carefully avoid showing you any Date though, but they give you some food prices and other things, that hint at a range of somewhere between the late 30's (which means Doc's War Musings are World War 1 Related, as they were in the Novels at first though that range also goes up to oh, the Red Spider which was cold war related and 1948), to the Early 50's (Which means the musings could refer to WWII as well, which Still works for Doc.)....It's relative in a sense. They're not so much as going for a specific Date (though they toss hints back and forth to give you roughly the decade), as they are for a total noir feel. Considering the Blackhawks are in the First Wave though, you could say it's Just after WWII. so you're range of Dates, is from The Batman's appearance in '39 to The Red Spider in 48' and running with the beginning of "The Man of Bronze" with Doc's old man kicking the bucket is a good start.

 

This is a whole, new contained Universe really, as if the stuff just kept rolling from it's inception (Call it, Detective Comics #27 which gives us 1939 as a start point till after WWII so we keep our Blackhawks as well). It's the MORTAL heroes really, the best of their time, and their molds. You're Looking at a list like this: The Batman, Doc Savage, the Avenger, The Shadow, Justice Inc, The Spirit, The Black Hawk Squadron, Black Canary, Rima Jungle Girl, Ted Grant (WildCat), and more. The Universe of Mortal Heroes, in their Noir/pulp/golden age roots. With their own stage to play on. Unrelated to the mainstream stage you need to toss a Crisis at every decade or so to keep cleaned up.

 

Some interesting changes as well.....just a touch of re-imagining here and there, without losing anything. They are really taking the "If it isn't broke, don't fix it." posture. Doc is Doc, The Batman, is the 1939 Batman. Gotham may have moved, but if you are a history buff, especially of architecture and such, where they moved it to, and why, in relation to the stories, makes a lot of sense.

 

So, again to recap. It's Not Modern Times. It's still the Pulp Golden Age. And as for War Hero, Like a Lot of the true patriots of that time. WW1, and WWII.

 

~Rex

[Escafarc]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

You know it's series like this that really make me miss the Multiverse of the Pre-Crisis days. Then you would just say the stories take place on Earth-P(for Pulp) and the fanboys settle back down. I know the whole 52 thing sort of brought that back but they have pretty much have defined all them. So its harder to deviate too much. That said this not a complaint about the series just an old man's reminesing about the "good old days"

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Heh, made it easy. Still though, it's just as easy to say, What If, or Else Worlds, or, Not part of the Mainstream so you mainstream Fanboys stay over there.....First Wave isn't going to be one of one though, it's it own whole continuity. Also there is the Earth One Graphic Novel stuff coming out to, so there is plenty of room to do new Story, without haveing to chain it to mainstream continuity (or lack there of in the case of Marvel and 1/3rd of DC)

 

Earth 2 Had to go though back in the day, Roy Thomas was showing up all the young kids over in the mainstream side of the company. JSA > JLA

 

~Rex

[Escafarc]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Earth 2 Had to go though back in the day, Roy Thomas was showing up all the young kids over in the mainstream side of the company. JSA > JLA

 

~Rex

That's the truth. RT is a very under-rated writer when the "utes" of today rank the greats.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

His work is one of the guidelines the First Wave kids are using as a story telling format for this material. I Liked the first Issue and the One shot, but it's still just a 1st Issue and a one shot out so far, a lot of the "bait" looks fantastic, but that's still bait. Because they ARE using a real story telling format, akin to the days of Roy Thomas or even Jim Shooter, and following that kind of act as well, it's going to take a few issues to really get things rolling.

 

~Rex

[kahuna's bro]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

doc is a ww1 veteran per the events of ESCAPE FROM LOKI

[culhwch]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

I also enjoyed the one shot and the First Wave 1st issue. So far it's a lot better both story and art than a lot of the stuff that's in the mainstream DC Universe.

[Yansuf]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

doc is a ww1 veteran per the events of ESCAPE FROM LOKI

 

Thank you, I am aware of his history; I was pointing out if you set the story in modern times that does not work.

[Yansuf]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

It's not modern times. In fact it's kind of a timeless fugue for the beginning. As for the War, take your Pick. Doc's got a history in World War 1. The whole setting of First Wave is unique and contained. It's running with the best of the pulp characters from the golden age, with a key theme. No Powers. Well no Kryptonians at least.

 

They've decided to make some changes in the retelling as well. When Doc and The Batman first Cross paths in the One Shot prequel, You have Young Bruce Wayne in his early 20's, and Doc, in his Mid to Late 30's. They carefully avoid showing you any Date though, but they give you some food prices and other things, that hint at a range of somewhere between the late 30's (which means Doc's War Musings are World War 1 Related, as they were in the Novels at first though that range also goes up to oh, the Red Spider which was cold war related and 1948), to the Early 50's (Which means the musings could refer to WWII as well, which Still works for Doc.)....It's relative in a sense. They're not so much as going for a specific Date (though they toss hints back and forth to give you roughly the decade), as they are for a total noir feel. Considering the Blackhawks are in the First Wave though, you could say it's Just after WWII. so you're range of Dates, is from The Batman's appearance in '39 to The Red Spider in 48' and running with the beginning of "The Man of Bronze" with Doc's old man kicking the bucket is a good start.

 

This is a whole, new contained Universe really, as if the stuff just kept rolling from it's inception (Call it, Detective Comics #27 which gives us 1939 as a start point till after WWII so we keep our Blackhawks as well). It's the MORTAL heroes really, the best of their time, and their molds. You're Looking at a list like this: The Batman, Doc Savage, the Avenger, The Shadow, Justice Inc, The Spirit, The Black Hawk Squadron, Black Canary, Rima Jungle Girl, Ted Grant (WildCat), and more. The Universe of Mortal Heroes, in their Noir/pulp/golden age roots. With their own stage to play on. Unrelated to the mainstream stage you need to toss a Crisis at every decade or so to keep cleaned up.

 

Some interesting changes as well.....just a touch of re-imagining here and there, without losing anything. They are really taking the "If it isn't broke, don't fix it." posture. Doc is Doc, The Batman, is the 1939 Batman. Gotham may have moved, but if you are a history buff, especially of architecture and such, where they moved it to, and why, in relation to the stories, makes a lot of sense.

 

So, again to recap. It's Not Modern Times. It's still the Pulp Golden Age. And as for War Hero, Like a Lot of the true patriots of that time. WW1, and WWII.

 

~Rex

 

OK, so it is still the pulp era, shortly after WWII (to allow the Blackhawks in), but the reporters have mini-recorders instead of notebooks, the Blackhawks have a twin engine jet transport, TV is widespread, and cops carry cell phones. Not to mention the Blackhawks are a multi-racial, co-ed group.

Sorry, my suspension of disbelief doesn't go that far.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

The Blackhawks have always been a co-ed Multi Racial/Ethnic Group and we're talking the group that fought Nazi Giant Robots and War Wheels and I'm going to get the "My Suspension of Disbelief only goes so far!" Warcry? They've always been just ahead of the tech curve as well, though Blackhawk himself started flying the PLZ.50A Jastrzab during the 1939 invasion, the whole squadron was flying Grumman XF5F Skyrockets, without any of the problems that basically kept the plane as a proto-type at best, it proved so popular they kept it until 1949 when they switched to their first Jet Aircraft. SO, haveing a twin engine Jet, for this comic is not out of their realm of presented material at all.

 

The rest of the tech is even easier. Doc's Technology handed out to the masses. Something very much Doc Savage. Doc was not the Tony Stark/Reed Richards type of scientist that kept all his discoveries that could advance the world, to himself.

 

So factor in the real history of magnetic tape recording (that annoying issue we had with German broadcasts going on indefinitely, and at the same time by the same folks, in different locations was German Tape recorders in action, something even we capitalized on in the real world), and apply Doc Savage to it, and you get AT&T out of the way (Their actions curtailed the recording industry for 20 years effectively), and you have, small tape recorders and good analog technology, even a transistor set up, earlier.

 

Even that stuff earlier, really isn't THAT early, if you actually know History. Magnetic recording for example was first demonstrated in 1898 and was put on paper well before that in 1877. And again, you add Doc Savage to the mix. Doc brought the Science and delivered.

 

~Rex

[Yansuf]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

The Blackhawks have always been a co-ed Multi Racial/Ethnic Group ~Rex

 

Really? The only non-white that I remember was "chop-chop", who was their mechanic, not a primary group member, even in the 50's. And what female members did they have?

Please enlighten me.

[csyphrett]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

The Blackhawks had a Lady Blackhawk early in their history, but I don't remember if she was a member, or a tagalong that got in the way.

CES

[Escafarc]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

There was two different Lady Blackhawks. Zinda Blake first appeared In Blackhawk #133(Feb '59){a unmamed female that looked like Zinda tried to join in Military Comics #20(July '43) but it has never been shown if this was Zinda.

And then there was Natalie Reed (born Natalie Gurdin), appeared in the 1988 Blackhawk mini.

 

And yes they were concidered members.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Well let's see, you have Lady Blackhawk (a woman), Chop Chop (Asian) (Who is actually the field leader now, and you never call him Chop Chop), then there are all the Polish, French, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and Italian members.....There is more then a few Ethinic/Cultural varieties there (*anti political correct sarcasm disclaimer* Though I do realize that since those guys are all Caucasian still they aren't allowed to have ethnic pride or a cultural identity nowadays, all us white folk are just the same I suppose.). Actual Americans were in the Minority of the Blackhawk Squadron for the most part. However if your concern is something as minor as Color, never fear, First Wave will provide in the next few issues......

 

~Rex

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

One of the things they are tackling in First Wave anyway, is adding a bit more variety without breaking anything that wasn't broken.

 

~Rex

[Escafarc]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Here's a link to Military #20 http://www.htmlcomics.com/html.asp?Series_Name=Military Comics&Alpha=M Comics&Alpha=M

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Good ol HTML comics.....heh.

 

~Rex

[Escafarc]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Good ol HTML comics.....heh.

 

~Rex

It has quickly become my second favorite site.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Yeah I like it for tossing out bait to folks or my players that don't remember the day. OBVIOUSLY, a lot of that stuff was a product of it's times, but times change and things evolve and they happen is a sort of natural order. First Wave is going to take an interesting perspective and track with a lot of the characters like Chop Chop from Blackhawk and Ebony White from The Spirit. From the hints they have dropped so far, about some of the changes they are going to tweak and the other story lines I'm more then a bit interested in seeing how they pan out.

 

~Rex

[Ranxerox]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

I'm not going to review First Wave. It is too early for that. I would like to review the review a little bit though.

 

Unlike the what the reviewer said, the reporter, didn't ridicule Doc Savage for missing his father's funeral. Savage did miss his father's funeral, so they gave Clark Savage Sr. a second so that his son could attend. Savage Jr. showed no grief at his father funeral and left quickly. This is what the reporter was commenting on. I mention this because the reviewer mistake here makes me doubt his reading comprehension skills, and because I suspect that the reporter, Jay Denton, will be both a recurring character and on the side of the angels for the most past.

 

Also, I want to mention the reviewers praise of Darwyn Cooke's Spirit comic book and slamming of Frank Miller's Spirit movie. Cooke's Spirit has struck me as being a well meaning homage but ultimately pale copy of the original. He writes it as though it were just a light spirited (no pun intended) adventure yarn, and while Will Eisner's Spirit was that it was also so much more. Frank Miller with his movie seemed to be trying to capture this "more" even if it success was very uneven. For this reason, I prefer the movie.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Good points. I'm not really offering much of a review point yet. You can't really not with a first issue, especially one that is setting up a larger scope of work so to speak. Now, that being said, I LIKED, The Spirit. The Spirits always been one of my favorite characters and was actually the first comic I started collecting as a little kid. Other kids were pretending to be spiderman and what not, my first halloween Costume, was The Spirit, heh. I had a great time at the Movie as well. I don't think what's been presented yet, is a copy, as so much as it is a way to get the Spirit to work in a collective setting as opposed to just his own. He shouldn't have slammed the movie though that's just obnoxious and the movie is undeserving of that anyway, taken for what it is, as opposed to what some people thought it was going to be, it was a good time.

 

Now, let's review the reviewer. Excellent catch there. I think this guy may actually like the people working on this project, but doesn't really "get" the subject matter. As a series and a setting I don't think, it will be possible to do a Review beyond the technical, until about the 5th or 6th Issue. Technically speaking, it's pretty good. Solid Art, very expressive, representative, and consistent. Same for the inking and the lettering. Story as it was presented, is a good set up, with some nice tie backs to older original material, but with definitive departures for the new progression, that remains true to the root form.

 

Around issue 3 or so, I would expect to be seeing, a lot more depth from The Spirit side of the story, and a whole lot of Doc Savage "OH, THAT'S Why......" Since that is a Doc Savage Truism. Doc is not one for emotional outbursts......We are talking about the guy, with the original Fortress of Solitude here after all.....

 

So....not really impressed with the First Review. Some of the Follow up Reviews, are a lot worse though and come from people that spent months crowing about the greatness of Rob Liefelds return to Youngblood, that sort of thing so I pretty much am going to avoid those. When you are dealing with unfolding literary characters, and Iconic Greats, as well as folks normally presented to us in a Serial format, the typical X-Book, Wolver-Book, styling and progression is not something you can use with these characters, and because of that, a lot of the reviewers being from the Wolverspaz generation, aren't going to understand, the pulp and noir subtleties, and story arcs, from the get go.....They had the same reaction to the Marvel Noir stuff to, even though shops around here couldn't order enough of that material to keep on the shelves.

 

So, what I predict. Issue's 1,2,3 are "The Pledge".....Issues 4 and 5 will be "The Turn".....Issue 6 will be "The Prestige" of the first Arc......

 

I smell a series that's being written in the format of a Magic Trick, therefore, I will think along those lines until they deviate.

 

~Rex

[Ranxerox]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

Did I miss the second issue of First Wave? It has been over a month since issue number one came out and I haven't seen issue number two.

 

I did pick up issue number one Doc Savage, and it is a good read. However, I found back up feature, Justice Inc., to be the more intriguing of the two stories. I have no previous experience with the character Richard Benson, but I suspect that I have been missing out here.

[RexMundi]

Re: First Wave, the First Review! Discuss, or risk Angering the Golden Tree!

 

If you don't know of The Avenger you are missing a LOT. I made sure to attend all the First Wave and Pulp Panels at C2E2 this weekend so I got to find out a LOT of stuff, Issue 2 should be out pretty soon. DC is not the only one making a move with these guys either. Moonstone books is moving HUGE into the Pulp scene, and having all the guys from First Wave on the same panel as the Moonstone guys was a cool thing.

 

Got lots of questions answered. LOTS of questions unanswered, heh. Still compiling my notes from the Panels but I'll post them all here.

 

Lot of us hammered Brian Azzarello on a ton of First Wave stuff and he was very cool with handing out more Bait for us. First Wave, is the "Universe Book", and they are working it around all the Solo titles to link them together. Between the bait and the hardline answers on the things like, Timeline and what have you, it was a great time. Azzarello has to be one of the coolest most laid back guys in the comic scene right now......anyway more to come later.

 

~Rex