Lycanthropic Bite

[BobGreenwade]

I'm building a werewolf character for a Champions setting, using the character sheet in 5E HSB 102-103 as a guide (though tweaking some of the stats upward slightly to make him a threat to superheroes). This worked fine for most of the sheet, except for the Lycanthrope's Bite power.

 

In the book, it's built like this:

 

Lycanthrope's Bite: Major Transform 7d6 (human into werewolf; heals back through special magic ritual), Persistent (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Always On (-1/2), Limited Target (humans; -1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Must Do Half Of Target's Positive BODY With Fangs (-1)

 

I tried to duplicate this build (other than increasing Major Transform to Severe Transform) using Hero Designer, but met an obstacle: for the Power to be Persistent and Always On, it has to be Constant.

 

As a temporary solution I've left those two Modifiers off, but I'd like the opinion of those here for what I'd be best doing. My options include:

 

1. Leave it as I have it.
   
2. Add Constant, Persistent, and Always On.
   
3. Use Trigger.
   
4. Use Linked.
   
5. Use some combination of Trigger and Linked.
   
6. Make a Custom Limitation.
   
7. Just wait for Steve to finish 6E HSB.
   
8. Other.
   

I'm expecting a lot of #7, but I would like to see what people think (and of course I'd welcome an answer from Steve directly, though I won't really expect it).

[Mister E]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

To make it more like a disease... what about: reducing the Transform down to 1-2d6; removing "All Or Nothing"; & adding Uncontrolled?

 

I'd also add Inherent (not a werewolf w/o power), & Difficult To Dispel (specifically for the contracted/developing curse... as Inherent already makes it impossible to dispel on the werewolf).

 

[edit]: ...and add Constant of course.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

I don't think this is necessarily a case for Always On at all. Rather, it looks like what you want to do is Jointly Link the werewolf's bite attack and the Transformation power so that neither can be used without the other.

 

Also, this looks like a power designed to turn the victim into a new werewolf right on the spot. Which for a superhero setting may be an appropriate choice ( "Defender, are you all right?" "GRAAARRR!!!" "Um...my, what big teeth you have..." ), but if you're willing to let the 'curse' take hold more slowly, you could potentially buy a smaller base Transform with Damage Over Time.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

If the campaign has werewolves only changing form under the full moon until they learn to control the transformation, the results of even a successful instant Transform might not be apparent until the first time the lunar cycle triggers it.

 

I used this variation for one of my characters, based mostly on the write-up in The Ultimate Metamorph (with the Limitations changed a bit so that the curse can be passed on any time the skin is broken instead of requiring a serious wound):

Werewolf’s Bite:

Severe Transform 7d6 (human into werewolf, healed by special magic ritual), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/4); All Or Nothing (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Limited Target (Humans; -1/2), Linked (to Bite; -1/4), Must Inflict BODY With Bite (-1/2)

Until reading the original post, it hadn't occurred to me that there might be a problem with having an attack that's Persistent but not Constant in 6e.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Until reading the original post' date=' it hadn't occurred to me that there might be a problem with having an attack that's Persistent but not Constant in 6e.[/quote']

Well, applying Persistent to a purely Instant Power wouldn't really make any sense -- the whole point of Persistent is that the Power (and the Advantage description really only talks about Constant ones) gets to stay active at times when a regular Constant one would shut off, and Instant powers kind of by definition don't have to concern themselves with that in the first place.

 

Of course, if you make an Attack Power Constant so you can then make it Persistent, you first of all end up with a Constant Attack Power -- which means that it'll keep hitting its target with no need for a further Attack Roll as long as its user maintains LOS and keeps feeding END into it. We're talking about a high-powered 0 END Transform in this context, and making it Persistent means it would keep trying to transform its target even if its user was Stunned or Knocked Out...rather like an Uncontrolled attack, really, although Uncontrolled seems to explicitly cover a few more circumstances as well.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

I don't even see a reason for the Persistent Advantage to have been added to the original build.

 

From 5er page 237 & 6e1 page 303:

Characters use Transform to simulate any attack that has a longterm or permanent effect (other than injury or death) on the target.

 

I can't find a mention of it in the errata though.

[SirViss]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

I don't even see a reason for the Persistent Advantage to have been added to the original build.

...

 

That is because it is "Always On". Powers with this Limitation must be 0END and Persistent.

 

P.334 of 6e1, specifies that Persistent (-1/4) can be added to a Constant power turn into a Persistent power. I think that means that means that Constant (+1/2) needs to be added to the power build.

 

I'm pretty sure that this applied in 5er too, so it should have been corrected and added to the errata.

[SirViss]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Lycanthrope's Bite: Major Transform 7d6 (human into werewolf; heals back through special magic ritual), Persistent (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Always On (-1/2), Limited Target (humans; -1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Must Do Half Of Target's Positive BODY With Fangs (-1)

 

You know, I always wondered why there is a"Limited Target (humans; -1/2)" limitation in this build. Isn't this implied when you define it: "Major Transform 7d6 (human into werewolf; heals back through special magic ritual),..."

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

That is because it is "Always On". ...

 

What exactly is the "it" you are referring to?

The HKA bite?

If not the bite, then the Transform?

Always On doesn't seem appropriate to either imho.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

You know, I always wondered why there is a"Limited Target (humans; -1/2)" limitation in this build. Isn't this implied when you define it: "Major Transform 7d6 (human into werewolf; heals back through special magic ritual),..."

 

Well, technically at its base level Transform is supposed to be able to change any target into whatever the specified end result is. It's standard to apply Limited Target to Transforms that don't have that wide a potential range of starting points. That way you can't turn the neighbor's Pomeranian or the live yogurt culture you're eating into a werewolf by dint of biting it.

 

Looking back at the original UM build, the Transform didn't have the Linked Limitation, just Persistent, Always On, and Must Do Half Of Target's Positive BODY With Fangs. It seems to be using that combo to simulate the curse always being in operation, but only able to take effect when a bite does enough damage to trigger it. I think just linking it to the physical attack (at the -1/4 value unless it's one hell of a big bite) without Persistent or Always On would get essentially the same result, as it's pretty unlikely that someone will accidentally wound themselves on the lycanthrope's teeth when it's not trying to bite them.

[SirViss]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

What exactly is the "it" you are referring to?

The HKA bite?

If not the bite, then the Transform?

Always On doesn't seem appropriate to either imho.

 

Sorry, this referred to the Transform. The build has Transform as it's basis, right?

 

I think this is supposed to represent the fact that the recipient of the power (i.e. the werewolf) has no control on when to use the power. The minute it bites someone the Transform activates, and he could have created a new werewolf.

[SirViss]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Well' date=' technically at its base level Transform is supposed to be able to change [i']any[/i] target into whatever the specified end result is. It's standard to apply Limited Target to Transforms that don't have that wide a potential range of starting points. That way you can't turn the neighbor's Pomeranian or the live yogurt culture you're eating into a werewolf by dint of biting it...

 

Ah, your right. Just read Transform again, and the only thing you need to specify is what you turn "targets" into. The default "target" is anything.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Sorry, this referred to the Transform. The build has Transform as it's basis, right?

 

I think this is supposed to represent the fact that the recipient of the power (i.e. the werewolf) has no control on when to use the power. The minute it bites someone the Transform activates, and he could have created a new werewolf.

 

Yes, but that's not Always On; that's Linked, specifically the "jointly Linked" special case described in the writeup for that Limitation in 6E1.

[SirViss]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Yes' date=' but that's not Always On; that's Linked, specifically the "jointly Linked" special case described in the writeup for that Limitation in 6E1.[/quote']

 

Sorry, but I only got the 2 basic books of 6ed this last week. I knew about "jointly linked" being mentioned somewhere, but haven't looked up what it entails. Thanks for the update.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Lycanthropic Bite

 

Based on this discussion, I've decided to go with Linked for now. I may change it, though, if I get a copy of the 6E HSB before the character goes into use (which will be a while yet).